6241ab No.44051
Salaam brothers and sisters. There is very little information on this topic on the internet in English. I'm aware of the health benefits of circumcision but there are still a few questions I have:
- Why do men have a foreskin at birth if they to remove it later anyway? The human body should be perfect according to our learning.
- At what age should circumcision be performed? My atheist friend thinks that performing surgery on your child and scarring his body without consent is unethical.
- Is usage of anesthesia permitted? I don't see why this would be a problem since you probably won't remember the pain of the surgery. It's probably also pretty dangerous to give drugs to babies since their bodies aren't properly developed yet.
- Do girls get circumcised too? Why or why not?
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2b1dad No.44052
>>44051
>Why do men have a foreskin at birth if they to remove it later anyway?
It's part of God's covenant with Ibrahim.
>The human body should be perfect
But it's not and nobody ever said it was supposed to be.
>At what age should circumcision be performed?
There's no set age.
>My atheist friend thinks
No he doesn't.
>Is usage of anesthesia permitted?
Yes, of course.
>Do girls get circumcised too?
No.
>why not?
Because they don't have a foreskin. Duh.
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6241ab No.44053
>>44052
Short an clear. Exactly what I needed.
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4273d2 No.44057
>>44051
>- Why do men have a foreskin at birth if they to remove it later anyway?
The act of getting circumcized is about obedience to God. We know whatever God commands from us is best for us.
>The human body should be perfect according to our learning.
Thats not what it means when Allah(SWT) says that we were made in the perfect form, and He doesn't just refer to the physical body. By perfect He's saying that we were made perfectly for our intended purpose.
>- At what age should circumcision be performed?
Any age, its recommended when they're a baby since its easier for them.
>My atheist friend thinks that performing surgery on your child and scarring his body without consent is unethical.
Thats because he has a biased perspective again circumcision, he even describes it as scarring the body. As Muslims we know its a beneficial procedure, atheists can't claim that they know its beneficial or harmful. On top of that theres the arbitrary concept of consent that they made up, they have no answer for why children can't consent, they can't even define what a child is, they don't have a criteria to distinguish between what constitutes as parenting vs. violating something which requires a childs consent. Does it also mean we shouldn't immunize kids because they have to wait until they can consent.
>- Is usage of anesthesia permitted? I don't see why this would be a problem since you probably won't remember the pain of the surgery. It's probably also pretty dangerous to give drugs to babies since their bodies aren't properly developed yet.
Yes, but like you pointed out, medical professionals need to weigh how much the anesthesia would affect the baby.
>- Do girls get circumcised too? Why or why not?
For males its considered sunnah, for females its considered mustahab and honorable. Female circumcision is partial removal of the clitoral hood (which is analogous to the foreskin for males), in the west they also call it clitoral hood reduction. Removing the clitorus entirely is not proper and against the sunnah, as our Prophet (SAW) said not to cut too much.
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837b69 No.44378
>>44051
>>The human body should be perfect
>But it's not and nobody ever said it was supposed to be.
Uhhhh
>"We have indeed created man in the 'best of moulds'."
(Qur'an 95:4)
>>44057
>>The human body should be perfect
>Thats not what it means when Allah(SWT) says that we were made in the perfect form, and He doesn't just refer to the physical body. By perfect He's saying that we were made perfectly for our intended purpose.
This makes absolutely zero sense.
Circumcision is genital mutilation which is a sin. Please try and change my mind.
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5c1b27 No.44379
>>44378
>Please try and change my mind.
So, you think the Prophet endorsed sin?
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837b69 No.44380
>>44379
I go by Allah's word (Qu'ran) before anyone else's, including the Prophet's (PBUH), and anything else such as Sunnahs, those which are easily forged.
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5c1b27 No.44381
>>44380
This is not a board for Quranists. If you reject hadith, you reject Qur'an.
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bce8de No.44396
>>44380
and the Qur'an came from the Prophet (PBUH) mouth
how can you be so sure that he wasn't forging it (i.e. lying)?
quranist logic
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01be68 No.44397
>>44378
Circumcision is like removing the umbilical cord, it is meant to be removed, just like cutting your nails and hairs.
It's not mutilation since your genital is still there, unless we're talking about eunuch's castration.
And how do you explain disabled people? Are they not perfect despite Allah said He made humans in a perfect form? So perfection here does not mean your body doesn't need any tampering or that it doesn't have any genetic deficiencies, it means something else, i.e. not resembling animals.
And if you're perfect then why do you have disease? Is that another proof that you're imperfect?
Also
>It is not for a believing man or woman—when Allah and His Messenger decree a matter—to have any other choice in that matter. Indeed, whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has clearly gone ˹far˺ astray. (Al Ahzab:36)
>Nor does he speak of his own whims. (An Najm:3)
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57277f No.44404
>>44378
>This makes absolutely zero sense.
Maybe try using your brain, and it'll make sense.
What do you think its meant by perfect? If I have a hammer, is it fair of me to say its flawed because I can't use it to tighten a nut on a bolt?
>Circumcision is genital mutilation which is a sin.
By your logic then haircuts are mutilation.
>>44380
>Quranist
ok now I get it. Tell me, which Qiraat do you read, and where in the Quran does it support your decision?
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0b48ea No.44411
>>44381
Quranists are allowed on this board now, ever since it became /modernislam/. Also all conversations about trans people aren't allowed, unless of course you are speaking positively about them.
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5c1b27 No.44412
>>44411
>Quranists are allowed on this board now
No, they're not.
>conversations about trans people aren't allowed
No, what's not allowed is spamming every single damn thread with trans garbage. Literally every thread on this board was becoming trans discussion, regardless of the actual topic. Is that the board you want? Then I suggest you create /translam/
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0b48ea No.44415
>>44412
I was banned for saying that Quranists aren't welcome on this board. "You are not the gatekeeper of /Islam/" it was said.
A thread specifically about trans and Islam (saying that IslamQA said that it was permissible) is left up for well over a week and as soon as I started contradicting all of the positive comments it gets shut down.
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5c1b27 No.44416
>>44415
>I was banned for saying that Quranists aren't welcome on this board.
No you weren't. You got a 24 hour ban for trying to say that transgender people can't be Muslim, when that is not up to you. You are not Islam's gatekeeper.
>as soon as I started contradicting
It got shut down because it was getting ridiculous. It's not about YOU, you know. This board has been active for 8 years.
If you want to discuss transgender people, go look in the QTDDTOT thread. If you want to spam about transgender people all over the board, you will be banned again … and again … and again.
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5c1b27 No.44417
>>44415
And, that ban was 23 weeks ago. You show up here every few weeks/couple of months or so just to spew a bunch of hatred, get banned, and then come crawling back when you remember we exist. It's a tiresome little game, but I've gotten exceptionally good at it.
Now, go forth and find some discussion you actually want to participate in and stop crying about a 24 hour ban from 6 months ago in what is your latest obvious attempt to sow discord.
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0b48ea No.44420
>>44416
>>44417
>You got a 24 hour ban for trying to say that transgender people can't be Muslim
No, I didn't. And that was a completely different thread from what I was talking about. I tried to tell a Quranist that they were not welcome here and was banned.
You can only put words in my mouth when it comes to the issue of transgender Muslims. You cannot have a rational discussion about the issue, and because of that such discussions have been banned. Transgender Muslims are misguided Muslims.
(USER WAS PERMANENTLY BANNED FOR EVERY POST, NOT JUST THIS ONE.) Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
5c1b27 No.44421
>>44420
>No, I didn't.
I can literally see your ban. You've spent a long time desperately trying to get someone else to take over this board and this is exactly the kind of tactics you use every time. You lie. You lie about me, my rules, my bans, etc. You've tried everything you can possibly think of and fail at every turn.
YOU cannot have a rational discussion about transgender people within Islam because your /pol/-addled smooth brain just wants to scream "TRAP" at them and create hatred and spread mischief, then cry when a civilized board bans you. Since that is literally the only reason you are here - as you don't participate in ANY other discussion concerning Islam - I think it's time to just permaban you. Go bleat on r/islam. I'm tired of dealing with you.
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4e968a No.44431
>>44421
>YOU cannot have a rational discussion about transgender people within Islam because your /pol/-addled smooth brain just wants to scream "****" at them and create hatred and spread mischief
Yeah that's something I've noticed is really common with these /pol/ types. They delude themselves into thinking that people opt out of debates with them because of their superior rhetorical and critical thinking skills, when in reality, they're extremely irrational and reactionary and people are just annoyed and alienated by them.
It's the Dunning-Krueger effect on full display.
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f3d6c9 No.45289
Circumcision is proof
You follow the god of your enemies
You follow a god who is really the devil.
If you are stupid to see this….
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5c1b27 No.45290
>>45289
There is only one God. Believing in more than one God is proof that you are of the Devil.
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