/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>43323

> Is it obligatory for muslims to live in muslim countries?

No.

>>43326

>Yes

This is a lie used by kufr to dissuade Muslim immigrants. There is no obligation for a Muslim to live in a Muslim country. Period.

>>43328

Hijrah is obligatory on Muslims if they are unable to practice their religion in the country they are living in, but it doesn't mean "moving to a Muslim country". You can move to the United States and hijrah is fulfilled because you can practice Islam freely in the US.

There is NO obligation for a Muslim to live in a Muslim country.

>>43329

>You can move to the United States and hijrah is fulfilled

Hijrah is immigrating to the land of islam, the opposite of dar ul kufr. So no.

>There is NO obligation for a Muslim to live in a Muslim country.

Yes, there is, the thing is, there are no true "muslim countries" today. We have countries with high populations of muslims, but all of them are ruled by tawaghit.

>>43330

So until a state that fully applies the Shariah and upholds Islam above all else is established, we will be in this limbo…

>>43330

>Yes, there is

And where is your evidence for this? Hijrah came from the Prophet moving because of religious persecution. If you're not persecuted, hijrah is not necessary. Prove that it is obligatory for Muslims to only live in certain designated countries.

>>43334

>western muslims believe they are oppressed

No we don't. This is more lies. I take it you are Jewish.

>>43336

We never believed Trump or his cult.

>>43337

Interesting theory, but meaningless concerning hijrah. In the US we're free to be as Muslim as we want to be, so there's no reason to leave. The only people demanding Muslims "go to their own countries" are alt-right meth-mouthed Bible humpers and Jews. They can't drive us out by force, so they try petty, childish psychological warfare; but they prove they know nothing about Islam or Qur'an as soon as they start screaming "m-muh 4:97!!!"

I do love it when people who watched a video from jihad watch think they know better than someone who has studied Islam for decades.

>>43339

Found you! I found the genius!

>Alt-right meth-mouthed Bible humpers and Jews.

Is that the correct way to call the people of the book? Have you considered that there are Muslims that have legitimate reasons for arguing that other Muslims leave western countries? Would someone who has studied Islam for decades answer yes to the first question and no to the second?

>>43340

>Found you!

No, sorry, that's not me. There are more than 3 people here and most of us are American Muslims.

>Is that the correct way to call the people of the book?

Those are not people of the book. They do not worship God or follow Jesus(pbuh), but have their own political agenda disguised as righteousness.

>Have you considered that there are Muslims that have legitimate reasons for arguing that other Muslims leave western countries?

I have considered it, but have yet to see a truly valid argument based in Islamic teachings. I can understand that Muslims may want to move to a more shariah based nation and live among a majority of Muslims; but to call it "obligatory" - such as OP asked - is false.

>>43342

Nowhere in Qur'an or the Sunnah does it say that it is obligatory for Muslims to only live in specific countries. If it doesn't specifically state that it is obligatory, then it is not obligatory.

If all the muslims are to go back to muslim countries, how will the non-muslims get guidance?

>>43361

>and he is not able to practise his religion openly and establish regular worship

Why do you keep ignoring this part?

>>43365

>who settles among the mushrikeen

I didn't settle here. I was born here.

>mustahab

Therefore, NOT OBLIGATORY! My original answer was correct. >>43325

>>43323

nisa 4:97 does say that immigration to non muslim countries is punishable by hellfire, can someone explain in detail?

>>44068

No it doesn't. Either you can't read or you're feely-feel interpreting it.

It says, literally, IF YOU MOVE TO A MUSLIM COUNTRY BECAUSE YOU FELT LIFE WAS TOO HARD IN THE NON-MUSLIM COUNTRY, THEN YOU WILL BE PUNISHED.

Bawwwwww … I can't throw the gays off roofs and blow up myself in an airport because a Christian owns it … I will move to super-radicalized-rightwing-Islamland to satisfy my snowflakeness! God will destroy you for that attitude. You are literally exactly where God put you. If you can't handle it, that's YOUR fault, not the people around you.

Muslim countries of today are not even close to really being that, quite the contrary.

>>43339

>The only people demanding Muslims "go to their own countries" are alt-right meth-mouthed Bible humpers and Jews

Stop watching TV.

You wouldn't be in America at all if the jews didn't bring you. Neither would the meth.

>>44070

there's a big difference between moving from a country because life is too hard, and moving from it because it is a land of sin.

>>44110

>You wouldn't be in America at all if the jews didn't bring you.

My family landed at Nantaskut in the Massachusetts Bay Colony on March 26, 1634 aboard the Mary and John.

Hijra today is only in the forests, jungles, mountains and deserts, with the awliya of Allah, because in the muslim lands it is controlled by thulm, and in the lands of kufr they are at war with us. As the prophet said in the end times pbuh

>>44112

and yet here you are, repeating jewish propaganda everywhere you do.

america up until very recently was a WASP country.. then they started bringing in catholics, then muslims, every generation browner than the last.

The jews are the force behind this.

>divide and conqueor

there were few if any muslims here when your family arrived, or for another 200 years. Nor were there any in England where you came from. Your conversion like the others was inspired by the jewish media. like cattle being herded.

>>44123

When do you think the history of new world colonization begins? The first people to come from Europe into the Americas were Catholics and Muslims. WASPs came later. Your /pol/-tier conspiracy "everything is dah j00000z" garbage is not welcome on this board.

>>44123

The colony of Maryland was founded by Catholics, dotard, and let's not forget that Irish and Scots who were predominantly Catholic came to America during colonial times, too.

Also: Jews did not even arrive in America until the 1880s, when all the capitalist elite who benefitted from immigration were white and/or protestant.

America has not truly been a WASP country since at MOST World War II.

But it is not like you study history or anything, that is why you buy into the "JUICE OWNS THE MEDIA AND GOVERNMENT" claptrap.

Just like what Mohammed SAW said, tribalism is ignorance.

>>44125

>Jews did not even arrive in America until the 1880s

columbus was a jew, retard. with many contemporaries. They set sail the month after Spain expelled them and they already knew where it was, as they'd been coming here for centuries.

Irish didn't start arriving in any numbers until the 1930s IIRC but certainly not before that century.

Jews run the media in every western country, and the schools, the entertainment, everything that forms you growing up besides your family. They convinced you to change religions. But all of this is off topic.

>>44124

cortez and pizarro like Columbus were cryptojews.

Anyway, my opinion which will be unpopular here is that muslims can live in non-muslim countries if their hosts allow it.

But I would not allow them in mine in any serious number as residents, even though I respect them, because I'd be diluting my own people's claim on our land.

furthermore, I believe Muslims would like to forcibly convert non muslims and so are not compatible as long term residents with a Christian society and values. But I would welcome them as (temporary) guests.

>>44140

The Jewish Columbus hypothesis has very little concrete backing. Besides, he was working for the Catholic King and Queen of Spain.

Also, heard of the Irish Famine? https://lmgtfy.app/?q=irish+emigration+graph&t=i

Once again, Jews do not have this media cabal that converts people to Islam. The Jews that own the media companies are independent from each other.

PS: bold of you to assume I was anything but a Muslim my whole life.

>>44140

>everyone's a jew! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Take this garbage back to /pol/.

>>44142

keep coping, its haram to make hijra to non-muslim lands except if you are fleeing death/persecution and there is no muslim land that can take you in

The Prophet said: “I have nothing to do with any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” (Sunan Abi Dawood (2274) & is a Sahih hadith, al-Irwaa’, 5/30)

The Prophet said, “I am not responsible for any Muslim who stays among polytheists.” They asked: ‘Why, Apostle of Allah?’ He said: ‘Their fires should not be visible to one another’, and he said, “Whoever joins the polytheists and lives with them then he is like them” and he said: “Migration will not end until repentance ends, and repentance will not end until the sun rises in the West.” (”Al-Musnad“, Vol.4/99, Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Jihad, Vol.3/7, Hadith 2479, and ad-Darami, Kitab as-Siyyar, Vol.2/239. Albani classifies it as Sahih. See: “Sahih al-Ja’mi’ as-Sagheer”, Vol.6/186, Hadith 7346)

Ibn al-Arabi said,

“It is obligatory to leave a place where forbidden practices are rife since it is mandatory for Muslims to demand observance of the Law.” Ibn al-Arabi, “Ahkaam al-Qur’an“, Vol. 1/484-485

Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said,

“The state of a place reflects the state of a person. It is possible to be sometimes a Muslim and at other times a disbeliever; sometimes sincere and at other times hypocritical; sometimes good and pious and at other times rotten and corrupt. Thus, a person becomes like the place of his abode. The migration of a person from a land of disbelief and profanity to one of faith and probity is an expression of repentance and of his turning away from disobedience and perversion to belief and obedience. This is so until the Day of Resurrection.” “Majmu’al-Fatawa“, 18/284

Al-Hassan said:

“If a Muslim emigrates to the land of the disbelievers, yet does not renounce Islam, he will (still) be an apostate by virtue of his abandonment of ‘Dar ul-Islam.“‘ Al-Jasaas, “Ahkam al-Qur’an“, Vol. 3/216.

Abdullah Ibn ‘Umar said:

“Whoever settles amongst the disbelievers, celebrates their feasts and joins in their revelry and dies in their midst will likewise be raised to stand with them on the Day of Resurrection.” (Ibn Taymiyyah said in his book: “Iqtidha’ as-Sifat alMustaqeem“, p.200, that the chain of narration of this Hadith is Sahih.)

Ibn Hazm states that:

“Whoever joins the ‘land of war’ and disbelief, of his own free will and in defiance of whoever amongst the Muslims calls him to his side, is by virtue of this act an apostate, by all the laws of apostasy, in Islam. Whoever is able to kill him must do so. His property is unprotected, his marriage null and void, all his rights are swept away. But whoever flees to the ‘land of war’ for fear of oppression, who neither opposes the Muslims in anything nor bears any malice towards them, and who was not able to find any refuge among the Muslims, is free of any guilt since he was compelled to leave. As for someone who takes the Muslims as his enemies, offering his help and his service to the disbelievers, he is a disbeliever. But those who would emigrate to non-Muslim lands in search of wealth or prosperity to live under their protection, while they were able to go to live amongst the Muslims in their own land, but still do not withdraw themselves from the disbelievers; such people are not far from the fold of disbelief, and we can find no possible excuse for them, so we ask Allah’s Forgiveness.

Abul-Wafaa’ ibn ‘Uqayl said,

“If you wish to know the status of Islam amongst the people of a particular time, then do not look to the crowding at the doors of the Masajid, nor to their echoing with, ‘Labbayk.’ Rather, look to their enmity towards the enemies of the Shari’ah. So seek refuge, (again) seek refuge in the shield of the religion and remain steadfast to the great rope of Allah and the allegiance to His believing supporters and beware, (again) beware His opposing enemies, as the best thing by which to draw nearer to Allah, the Most High, is the severe fury towards those who oppose Allah and His Messenger and waging war against them by the hand and the tongue and the heart, according to one’s ability.”

>>44285

>The Prophet said: “I have nothing to do with any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.”

Someone who is born somewhere didn't "settle" there.

>Ibn al-Arabi said

Not the Prophet, so no authority.

>Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said

Not the Prophet, so no authority.

>Al-Hassan said

Not the Prophet, so no authority.

>Abdullah Ibn ‘Umar said

Not the Prophet, so no authority.

>Ibn Hazm states

Not the Prophet, so no authority.

>Abul-Wafaa’ ibn ‘Uqayl said

Not the Prophet, so no authority.

Cope and seeth, Arab worshiper. I worship only Allah and recognize only Allah's Prophet's authority.

>>44287

Nearly all sahaba were born there, yet they still had to do hijra. Anyways you can justify how you want, you will eventually die and face judgement. Islam doesn't need you, he's just giving you advice so you don't destroy your akhira and your children's.

>>44297

One who is knowledgeable and mindful of God’s commands and prohibitions in the Quran and Sunnah, strong enough to control their urges, are aware of the world around them, and seeks to rise in rank in the sight of God by constantly working to be a better person and a better Muslim has already fulfilled spiritual hijrah and that is good enough.

You should only physically move if having a gay neighbor means you're gonna go over there and start suckin' dick because your snowflake tender fee-fees can't handle it.

>>44302

Maybe you won't but your sons and grandsons will. At least in a muslim country you can pretty much guarantee the next generations will stay muslim.

>>44310

>being in a Muslim country guarantees people will be Muslim

Just because a brother has a beard doesn't mean he's mu'min.

>>43337

kek

>>44318

You will be questioned about doing what's in your ability. A muslim country is better for the iman than a kafir one. The outside influence will be less. Insisting on dar al kufr for your children is doing the least of your ability, it's complete laziness and taking the easy way out, but it will cost your kids and grandkids iman. And even if they are mostly to blame, you will have a part of the blame as well.

A family where the majority society is muslim will remain muslim for generations, but 1 generation in a kafir country half the family have apostated.

>>43323

Name one "Muslim country". Indonesia and Pakistan come close, but only if you live at least 50 km from any city limits.

>>44463

I think we're about to be able to put Afghanistan on that list.

>>44464

Kabul is more westernised than Brooklyn, but I agree with you; let's check back in next month.

>>44509

What an asinine claim, from someone who lives in neither Kabul nor Brooklyn.

Does the Kabul city fly a gay pride flag on their city hall? Is Zina popular there? What percentage of women wear the hijab?

>>44513

I've lived in both. Don't confuse anecdote with reality.

Prostitution, cocaine, and auto theft are all illegal in Brooklyn, but to say that these things are not in Brooklyn is completely false.

Homosexuality, indecency, zina etc. may be forbidden in Kabul but don't think git one minute that it wasn't all openly accepted tight up until the Taliban took over.

Many people have this errant belief that the cities in "Muslim countries" are somehow free from standard urban filth.

I specifically stated that Kabul was more westernised than Brooklyn because Brooklyn is actually changing due to the massive influx of immigrants, and it's a good change.

Again, a quick look at the exchange makes it clear that I was referring to pre-Taliban Kabul.

>>43358

i'm more worried about muslims in muslim countries stealing, being unjust, cheating and conning than anything else

>>44070

Your strawman is laughable. Apply yourself.

>>44287

Quranist moment

Quranists are kuffar.