b12602 No.42613
Serious question, I'm not that informed about modern politics in the middle east, I know about the history how the british put these families in power. But a lot of people don't seem to like the government, like them allying with evil countries, or imprisoning Islamic scholars that speak out against the saudi government. How well do they implement sharia? What else are they doing wrong?
____________________________
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64a2bd No.42615
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b12602 No.42623
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0d7a15 No.42624
All that and the fact their proxy war with Iran that cause millions of death and destabilize the whole region, there is proof/speculation that these Saudi payed insurgent such the like of IS.
Also the amount of time they attack Jordan,Libya and put soft sanction on Qatar and UAE.
A lot of people look to the Saudi for leadership for the Ummah considering they have Mecca, but the way they act is not islamic and they refute this following shariah law, even though human rights, which is important continued to be ignore.
They are also known to bride world leaders, the biggest well known one was the former PM of Malaysia where they donated millions, without any reason. They called it just donations, some speculate it is bribe or a weird way of money laundering.
In the age of social media, the Saudis has been extremely shady
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b12602 No.42625
>>42624
Jazakhallah for the answer
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b12602 No.42659
>>42626
Oh ok. So is there any real Islamic state today or no? If not then what nation do you think is the closest to true sharia that was once practiced?
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57fc4e No.42662
>>42659
That's a tough question. There aren't too many nations that rely on sharia for both criminal and civil cases. Sharia is supposed to codify values, conduct, and religious commandments as well as provide guidance in various aspects of life. Don't confuse sharia (path) with fiqh (law). Fiqh is the interpretation and implementation of sharia.
To answer your question: the United States of America. Seriously.
American Muslims practice Sharia on a voluntary, private basis in a manner similar to Catholics who obey the magisterium or Jews who follow halakhah. The essential parts of Sharia are practices such as daily prayers, fasting during the month of Ramadan, marriage contracts, and rules for charity and investments. Muslims follow these practices without infringing on anyone else’s rights. For example, if a Muslim eats a halal or kosher hamburger, nothing prevents someone else from eating a bacon cheeseburger! The United States's First Amendment is fiqh that permits the following of sharia and also prevents the banning of it.
Sharia does not force your neighbors to be Muslim and even prevents you from compulsing them into Islam and, further, permits you to not join their religion and even protect yourself from them forcing you to convert. The fiqh of the United States does that exact same thing.
I contend that the United States is the true sharia nation.
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ee998f No.42663
>>42662
Prostitution, intoxicants, and gambling are widely available. The call to prayer was just done for the first time in Minnesota, it is forbidden to do the call to prayer out loud, outside the building everywhere else. Homeschooling is becoming outlawed, meaning that your children have to go to public schools where drugs, intermixing, sexual pressures, kufr values and kufr educational practices are rampant. Women are afraid to wear the hijab in many parts of the country because of Islamophobia. Usury is everywhere, you have to jump through hoops to try and avoid getting interest. Sometimes this isn't possible so you have to pay the interest back as a charity. Television programming is going full blown LGBTQA+, having to have at least one character in every show. The LGBTQA+ agenda is also being pushed in the public schools. Children are allowed to change genders and start taking hormones without their parents permission. If the parents object the child is taken by social services. Women have almost complete authority in the courts. The court will give custody of your children to your drug addicted, abusive wife that doesn't have a job before giving it to you, even if you have a stable job and are sober. You will be giving her half of your belongings anyway, and will pay her generous alimony to pay for her drugs. That is just the way the courts work here. The only way to avoid this is to get an Islamic marriage only, and not have it documented by the government. But even then if you live together for a certain number of years you are common-law married and she can still f*ck you over in their generous court system.
But besides all that, if you think that Sharia is just being allowed to pray, fast, and get married Islamically I guess the US is the true sharia nation. Just forget about everything else.
None of these problems are happening anywhere close to the extent they are in Muslim majority countries as they are in the US. Even though MBS is making Saudi Arabia more moderate, it is still the country that is implementing Sharia law the most in the world.
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ee998f No.42664
>>42662
>Don't confuse sharia (path) with fiqh (law)
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57fc4e No.42665
>>42663
>Prostitution, intoxicants, and gambling are widely available.
That doesn't stop Muslims from being Muslim.
>it is forbidden to do the call to prayer out loud, outside the building everywhere else
That's not true. The call to prayer happens everywhere in the United States all the time. Some places have noise ordinances that prevent the morning call, since it is generally pre-dawn, but otherwise it's fine pretty much everywhere.
>Homeschooling is becoming outlawed
No it isn't. Where are you getting your information?
>your children have to go to public schools
There are masjids everywhere. Public school is not mandatory.
>Women are afraid to wear the hijab in many parts of the country
Yet, they do it anyway.
>Usury is everywhere
You don't have to use those banks.
>Television programming
You don't have to watch television
>being pushed in the public schools
No, it isn't.
>Children are allowed to change genders
No, they're not.
>If the parents object the child is taken by social services.
No, they're not. Where are you getting this information?
>Women have almost complete authority in the courts.
Women have equal rights in Islam.
>The court will give custody of your children to your drug addicted, abusive wiffe
No, the court will not. If the mother is a drug addict and abusive, custody is given to the father in all states.
>common-law married
Only in 8 states and only under very specific circumstances. Just living together isn't enough in any state. You really need to do more research because whomever is feeding you information is lying to you.
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57fc4e No.42666
>>42664
>using an English dictionary for an Arabic word
Sharia means "path to the water". Fiqh is Islamic law.
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ee998f No.42667
>>42666
He asked
>what nation do you think is the closest to true sharia that was once practiced?
That nation is Saudi Arabia. You cannot try to argue that sharia in 7th century Arabia was more similar to the United States law. That is ridiculous.
Regarding the state of the United States courts, I find it hard to believe that you don't know anyone who has been screwed over during a divorce. If you haven't, you are an extreme exception, not the rule. To get a good idea about the current state of the court system, read "The Garbage Generation" by Daniel Amneus. Keep in mind this book was written 30 years ago and things have degenerated since then.
It is becoming harder to home school children, through government regulations. It has been a drawn out process and has been documented in the book "The School Revolution: A New Answer for Our Broken Education System" by Ron Paul, as well as in other places. The fact that you have to go through a thorough application process every year just to be able to do it (only up to a certain age in some states) is a pretty good sign it is on the way out altogether.
It isn't hard to notice that the LGBTQA+ agenda is being pushed everywhere and children are being given authority to change genders, and dress in women's clothing. If you have a male child that wants to dress like a girl and you don't allow it, the child can go to the school counselor and get them to intervene for the child's "welfare" in certain states.
>You don't have to use those banks
Really? Because finding Sharia compliant banks in Muslim countries is difficult. Finding them in the United States is impossible.
There is no need to be ambiguous with the meaning of "Sharia". The meaning of his question was obvious.
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ee998f No.42669
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57fc4e No.42674
>>42667
> Finding them in the United States is impossible.
>impossible
https://www.globalbankingandfinance.com/list-of-islamic-banks-in-the-usa/
Might want to check your dictionary for the meaning of "impossible".
>There is no need to be ambiguous with the meaning of "Sharia".
There's nothing ambiguous about it. People commonly confuse "sharia" with "fiqh". It's better to educate them.
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ee998f No.42675
>>42674
Clicked on the link, googled the first one. Then I saw this. What kind of Islamic bank charges interest? Just because a bank claims to be sharia compliant doesn't mean that they are. Sharia compliant banks do not charge interest under any circumstances.
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ee998f No.42676
>>42674
f*cking JP Morgan is on that list. Are you serious?
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57fc4e No.42677
>>42675
>no interest if paid as agreed
Uphold your end of the contract, son.
>>42676
>JP Morgan
Has Riba-free options for some accounts. All you have to do is ask.
If by "Islamic Bank", you mean a bank that makes no money whatsoever, then you're out of luck. No such bank has ever existed in the history of banks. Just put your cash in a shoebox under your bed. However, you can get interest-free loans and credit from many banks if you ask for it. They only ask that you pay on time every time, which isn't too much to ask.
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ee998f No.42678
>>42677
>No such bank has ever existed in the history of banks.
What kind of banks existed in early Islamic history? Ones that's purpose was to make money and that took interest under certain circumstances? I'm no expert in Islamic finance, but any layman knows that taking interest is never allowed under any circumstances ever.
Governors that served in the early Islamic government didn't make any money at all when serving in their positions. They received a stipend that covered their maintenance costs, but they didn't make a single extra cent. Their property was put into an estate before taking the position and then given back to them when they completed their term. They left their job without making any salary whatsoever. Such an idea seems ludicrous in this day and age, but that is the way it was.
If you bank with JP Morgan you are supporting a gigantic riba monster. If a few cents of usury is a horrible sin, what would billions of dollars in riba loans and mortgages be?
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b12602 No.42680
>>42662
>Don't confuse sharia (path) with fiqh (law). Fiqh is the interpretation and implementation of sharia.
How I understand it the literal meaning of sharia is 'path', but it refers to the concept of Islamic law, just like how hijab the literal meaning is 'veil' but it refers to the concept of modesty in Islam. Whereas fiqh is the jurisprudence, the study of legal theory, interpretation, and implementation of sharia.
Also with your explanation for the US being the closest to sharia, I don't think it holds up. It seems you are putting focus on certain aspects, over others, and even ignoring some. Like ya its true according to sharia non-Muslims would have their own laws and not be subjected to Muslim laws (to a certain extent), but in the US, Muslims in turn don't have that absolute freedom to practice their religion, and are bound by US laws. So like the other brother mentioned >>42663 , like with marriage mahr can't be enforced but haram equity laws during divorce can. Theres riba everywhere and you have to really try hard to avoid it in banks, loans, even taxes. Taxes are forced onto us (while as Muslims we also have to pay zakat) where some of our taxes are sent to Israel, to the Military, to people who oppress Muslims in other parts of the world.
On top of that, like I said your explanation is only valid if you ignore other aspects like the corruption and motives of the US government. Yes Saudi and other Muslim countries also have corruption, but the stuff that goes on in the US is 10 times worse. We just found out that the US military has been spying on Muslims through the Muslim Pro app, they've been oppressing the American Muslim community with their counter terrorism policies for decades now.
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57fc4e No.42681
>>42680
So much of the problem is the clinging to ancient lifestyles. It's similar to those "christians" who believe the Knights Templar era of crusades were the pinnacle of Christianity and "larp" all day about it, then get hit with reality.
Islam is reality, not a fantasy world of lavish tents in the desert with harems and Turkish delights. Allah sees and knows all. Allah sees a country like Saudi Arabia murdering people for daring to speak out against the government and do you think that pleases Allah? Do you think that is Sharia? "Obey the king or off with your head" is NOT Islamic. You don't think Allah sees Muslims in America being 100% free to be Muslim as a good thing? Allah loves good things. When Allah separated the light and darkness the first thing he said about it was that it was good. Never once did Allah say any part of Creation was bad. Only men do that.
Allah also never promised that the world of men would be easy. We were specifically punished when we disobeyed with difficulty in labor, and you're now whining about having to fill out a few extra forms in order to homeschool your child? That's the price of being a perfect creation in an imperfect society. Allah intends for you ease in religion and no country in the world has that more than the United States. Everything else can be changed - or you can whine about voting being shirk and allow yourself to be subjugated to the men who do participate in democracy and actually change what they don't like. The beauty of the US is that's your option.
Until you can show me an aspect of Islamic life that is illegal in the United States, I will contend that the US is the true sharia nation in modern times.
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e55624 No.42682
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e55624 No.42683
>>42613
Nothing.
Neo-zoomer salafis just have a problem with authority. And ikwanis are salty they got kicked out.
Maybe actually live in the country and see how things are actually like instead of looking at the news.
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57fc4e No.42685
>>42683
>a problem with authority
The KSA has no authority.
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ee998f No.42686
>>42681
Do you think Allah sees what the US is doing in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan and other states in the middle east and is pleased? Do you think that because we get to live over here in a bubble drowning in distractions and amusements (most of which are haram) while paying for it with our tax dollars it pleases Allah? You are contending that just because we get to pray, fast, and pay zakat in this bubble we are living in a true sharia nation. That is retarded.
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57fc4e No.42687
>>42686
>sees what the US is doing
Probably not, but the question wasn't "perfect nations" it was "sharia nations". If you're looking for perfection, you may as well suicide or something because there are no perfect nations.
>drowning in distractions and amusements (most of which are haram)
Is someone putting a gun to your head and forcing you to do those things? If you're "drowning in distractions and amusements", then you are choosing to do so. Take some personal responsibility and stop blaming others for your sins.
>paying for it with our tax dollars
Our tax dollars don't pay for distractions and amusements.
>we get to pray, fast, and pay zakat
Name one other nation where you can do those things freely without government interference.
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ee998f No.42688
>>42687
>you may as well suicide
Not a good suggestion for a fellow Muslim.
>If you're "drowning in distractions and amusements", then you are choosing to do so.
We are surrounded by them.
>Our tax dollars don't pay for distractions and amusements.
They pay for our military and the things that it does
>Name one other nation where you can do those things freely without government interference.
Any country in Europe, Russia, Many African countries, The entire Middle East, Australia, New Zealand….pretty much any country but China.
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57fc4e No.42690
>>42688
>Any country in Europe
Like France, where the hijab is banned?
>Many African countries, The entire Middle East
Where you can get fined if you miss a prayer or miscalculate zakat?
>Russia
I guess you've never heard of the Yarovaya Package.
>Australia
Getting better, but the fight over halal certification continues.
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57fc4e No.42691
>>42688
>African countries, The entire Middle East
Not to mention if you're the "wrong kind" of Muslim. God help you if you're Shi'a in a Sunni country or vice versa.
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ee998f No.42693
>>42691
>Like France, where the hijab is banned?
I think you mean the niqab, which has nothing to do with prayer, fasting or zakat
>Where you can get fined if you miss a prayer or miscalculate zakat?
prove this. Also why would a Muslim miss a prayer without a valid excuse?
>I guess you've never heard of the Yarovaya Package.
Similar laws are enacted in the United States. It was just found out that the US Military was collecting data from the Muslim Pro app. Again, what does data collection have to do with prayer, fasting, and zakat?
The United States drops a bomb every 3 minutes. Most of those are dropped on Muslim majority countries, in conflicts that were caused by United States foreign policy. These actions are paid for with your tax dollars, you can't opt out of paying taxes. This is not an example of a shining sharia nation on a hill. You are the only one that believes this, it is obvious to everyone else that Saudi Arabia enacts Sharia law the most of any country in the world. Saudi Arabia even has Shiite Mosques. You hate Saudi Arabia, so you are trying to play the "muh great constitutional liberties card" and it is pathetic. It is like you are getting all of your opinions from Yasir Qadhi.
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57fc4e No.42694
>>42693
Well, you just hate the United States, so nothing I say will matter anyway. My challenge still stands, though: show me one aspect of Islamic life that is illegal in all 50 United States or by federal law.
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b12602 No.42697
>>42694
>show me one aspect of Islamic life that is illegal in all 50 United States or by federal law.
Polygynous marriage
<Polygamy is the act or condition of a person marrying another person while still being lawfully married to another spouse. It is illegal in the United States. The crime is punishable by a fine, imprisonment, or both, according to the law of the individual state and the circumstances of the offense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_North_America#United_States
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57fc4e No.42698
>>42697
Polygamous marriage is not obligatory in Islam. It is not part of Islamic life. Further, the laws against polygamy in the US are in reference to obtaining a State issued license and "legal" marriage, not religious marriage. If you feel you must have 4 wives, you get married in proper Islamic fashion and you sign the marriage contract with each wife without any State involvement whatsoever.
Not illegal.
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ee998f No.42699
>>42694
That depends on your definition of an “aspect of Islamic life.” You obviously only include the prayer, fasting, zakat, and marriage (to an extent) in that definition. In the early stages of Islam there was a lot more to it than that. It included hudud and divorce law as >>42671 mentioned. It also included the forbidding of evil. Alcohol, gambling, and prostitution were not legal and widely available to the public.
All it boils down to is your definition of an Islamic environment, which you have watered down to the absolute basics. The freedoms granted by the US constitution are great for living in a non-Muslim county. They provide many benefits, but that doesn't make it Islamic. It just makes it a more free society.
Having to put up with not being able to criticize the rulers of Saudi Arabia and having less freedoms does not make the country more unIslamic than the United States. They uphold the most Islamic characteristics that were of paramount importance in the early stages of Islam. It isn't just about praying, fasting, and zakat. That is the modernist viewpoint, and it is wrong.
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57fc4e No.42700
>>42699
If having a neighbor who barbecues a pig and drinks beer all weekend hurts your deen, that's your weakness, not mine. If you think Islam gives you the right to force that neighbor to stop, that's your weakness, not mine. I suggest you read Qur'an and pray.
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ee998f No.42701
>>42700
Under Islamic law in an Islamic state non-Muslim people of the book are allowed to barbecue a pig and drink beer all weekend, even for longer periods of time. They just can't sell it or do it in public. I suggest you learn more about your deen before you go acting all high and mighty and making negative assumptions.
All I am doing is pointing out why your opinion is laughable and wrong.
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b12602 No.42702
>>42698
>Polygamous marriage is not obligatory in Islam. It is not part of Islamic life.
Sunnah and nafl prayers are also not obligatory, are they also not part of Islamic life? You're showing how hypocritical you are to your reasoning.
By definition its still illegal, whether you want to find loopholes is a different matter.
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664c20 No.42703
>>42624
You have no proof that the Islamic State was "paid" by Saudi Arabia or any other Murtad governments. If that was the case then why has the murtad Saudi government secretly worked so closely with Russia and Assad to destroy the Islamic State? The evidence is out there. You sound like a kafir Shia to me because any Sunni with a clear mind can see that the Islamic State is the only hope for the Ummah
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64a2bd No.42704
they also boycott turkish products. let me think hmm did they boycott france too?
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57fc4e No.42707
>>42703
Before joining daesh, prospective members are required to engage in sexual congress with 2 mules and give a handjob to a monkey. Then there is a ceremony where feces are smeared on new member's faces and senior members lick them clean. It is the way of ISIS.
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b235e5 No.42708
MbS is obviousy a kafir.
Enforcing some parts of Sharia and ignoring others does not make a country a Sharia compliant one.
Dawla is the only Sharia compliant state in the world. You might call them khawarij or whatever, but this is objectively undeniable.
Furthermore, on an international level, you shouldn't see Muslim majority countries as "Muslim" countries. The governments of these countries are just as much kafir as those of kafir majority countries i.e. Russia, USA. These countries are basically proxies of more powerful kafir countries.
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b235e5 No.42709
When we think of shariah, many of us tend to think about moral and
social issues like respecting the rights of others, observing modest
clothing and behavior, refraining from lewd or offensive speech, and
generally being considerate of others. This is not by accident- we have been conditioned to think that religion belongs to the private sphere, which is a core principle of secularism.
Secularism would lead us to believe that it is sufficient to practice one's
religion privately and assent to whatever rules and policies are imposed on us, or that we are forced to finance. This is not the case, as Allah expressly directed us toward the possibility of migrating if we are in a situation where we are obligated to do wrong:
“Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging
themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?"
They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say,
"Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate
therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination.” [4:97]
There is one fact that cannot be emphasized enough. The modern state as an organizational system is a direct outgrowth of the Catholic church in Europe. The state is part of religion.
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b12602 No.42710
>>42708
I try to make the distinction between Muslim countries and an Islamic country, where Muslim countries are Muslim majority, and Islamic would be an Islamic state that practices absolute sharia. But so far it seems that there is no Islamic country.
>Dawla is the only Sharia compliant state in the world. You might call them khawarij or whatever, but this is objectively undeniable.
I'd disagree, just because you apply hudud doesn't make it sharia compliant, if you don't adhere to the due process according to sharia. Basically the same thing you're accusing saudi of doing
>Enforcing some parts of Sharia and ignoring others does not make a country a Sharia compliant one.
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b235e5 No.42711
>>42710
There is a difference between being wrong in you aqeedah, and being a clear cut murtad.
If you consider Dawla as khawarij, of which there is not a single evidence, they are still Muslims as they still implement Shari'ah to the letter as far as I know. Being a khariji is a mistake in your aqeedah which does not make you a kafir.
Saudi on the other hand disregard clear orders from the Qur'an and the sunnah, and they even made them official. Therefore they are murtadeen even if their aqeedah is correct.
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ecc469 No.42719
It's literally forbidden to follow the sunnah of marriage in mecca.
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ecc469 No.42720
>>42706
Where'd you get that number 70? How do you think false prophecy is rewarded?
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f87b2f No.42774
>>42662
>>42664
>ackchyually
when someone uses the "sharia" term, they are referring to the Islamic law, i.e. cutting off someone's hand if he steals, qisas, etc
does the US implement this? of course not
"sharia" has become an english loanword, so applying the literal meaning of the arabic is simply wrong
just like "jihad", literally it had nothing to do with Islam
stop being a c*nt
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57fc4e No.42775
>>42774
Cutting off someone's hand for stealing is not mandatory in shariah.
>applying the literal meaning of the arabic is simply wrong
>if you try to correct or educate people, you're being a cunt
fugouutahea with that
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57fc4e No.42782
>>42780
One of the criteria for such theft is that the thief is Muslim. Hudud does not apply to non-Muslims, hence, it cannot be law of the land in the US.
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b8c80e No.42785
>>42744
Marriage under 15 is not allowed and under 18 requires special court permission.
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340d8f No.45287
>>42662
That's a bit of strech. Perhaps originally the constitution allowed some human right parts to be implemented but today everything in the US is becoming a sick joke. They don't take anything seriously. They don't value anything. They don't respect anything.
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