644698 No.42082
If any group implements Shariah, then I would be very afraid to criticize or hamper them in any way, because then I would be attacking a group which implements Shariah, which would mean attacking Shariah itself, and making an effort to remove or weaken Allah's laws is kufr.
____________________________
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f7952e No.42085
>>42082
Any group that implements shariah and tells you you're not allowed to criticize/debate shariah hasn't actually implemented shariah. Also, what is that PDF?
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644698 No.42087
>>42085
>Any group that implements shariah and tells you you're not allowed to criticize/debate shariah hasn't actually implemented shariah
Citation needed.
Anyways, that is LITERALLY what a group that implements Shariah would do.
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f7952e No.42088
>>42087
Shariah is up for debate and interpretation. Shariah is man made interpretations. Anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand shariah. There is nothing wrong with implementing shariah, obviously, but it can be - and often is - debated openly.
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644698 No.42089
>>42088
Debating about what counts as stealing in order to chop off someones hand is debating about Shariah.
About whether a sodomite should be thrown off a building, stoned or thrown off a building and then stoned.
About how much jizya should be taken from Christians and Jews, and whether other religions should be executed or converted to Islam.
>There is nothing wrong with implementing shariah
True, but not implementing shariah or hampering the implementation of Shariah is KUFR AKBAR.
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f7952e No.42090
>>42089
Did you search Google for "muslim steretypes" or did you copypaste from jihadwatch? Why are you talking about throwing people off buildings and chopping off hands? Also, again, what is that PDF in your OP?
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5a1781 No.42092
>wtf I found this thread and hate Muslims now and totally see why the holy bile is superior. oh lawd appraise cheesus!
Imagine being sodomized enough to be op and believing this is how people would react.
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6e1b74 No.42095
>>42088
You don't understand shariah.
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6e1b74 No.42096
>>42090
>Why are you talking about throwing people off buildings and chopping off hands?
Because it's part of hudud, do you deny it?
Denying it takes you out of islam.
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14b64d No.42099
>>42096
Shariah that isn't based on Quran can be denied. Nothing about Daesh is based in Quran and the only reasonable response to Daesh is their complete annihilation. If Daesh does it, then it can be denied. If you agree with Daesh, then gtfo this board.
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6e1b74 No.42100
>>42099
>Shariah that isn't based on Quran can be denied
You quranist kaffir?
They also drink water will you stop drinking water? lmao
And yes, it's in the quran :
[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. 5:38
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644698 No.42102
'Umar bin Al-Khattab said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) stoned, Abu Bakr stoned, and I stoned. If I didn't dislike that I add to the Book of Allah. I would have written it in the Mushaf, for I fear that there will come a people and they will not find it in the Book of Allah, so they will disbelieve in it."
Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1431
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1489cd No.42105
>>42088
>>42089
Idk why you guys are arguing you're both right.
>>42100
>Shariah that isn't based on Quran can be denied
<You quranist kaffir?
I think he's referring to the "throwing homosexuals off buildings" part, which isn't from hadith. Some of the salaf viewed homosexual sodomy as worse than zina, so they thought that the punishment should also be worse than zina, and came up with different punishments such as throwing them off a high place. But the fiqh ruling of hadd for this crime varied widely across the madhabs, from burning them alive to no physical punishment at all. We acknowledge that the salaf, madhab founders, and the scholars were not infallible, that doesn't mean we disregard everything they've said, but that there are possibilities of errors in their judgments.
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6e1b74 No.42108
>>42105
yeah but the punishment is death both in hadith and quran for qawm lut
the debate is on the type of execution
"If you find someone doing the deed of the people of Lot, then execute the doer and the one to whom it was done." reported by Ibn Abbas, Book of Legal Punishments, Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Book 17, Hadith 40 [Number 1456],
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7b56a2 No.42114
>>42108
>execute the doer and the one to whom it was done
>and the one to whom it was done
Awesome. So if I'm suicidal and I want to take a bunch of people out with me, all I have to do is go around butt raping every man I see. Then I'll be executed and so will my victims! I like the way you think, anon. I'll butt rape you last.
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f7952e No.42115
>>42108
Your childlike, simplistic view of hadith is adorable, but dangerous. It's way more complex than taking a single sentence and using that as your sole source of shariah.
>>42114
lol
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1489cd No.42116
>>42108
I wasn't giving my opinion, these are the fatwas derived and given by the sunni madhabs, who all have valid opinions according to mainstream views. They look at more than just one hadith (i don't know if theres even a sahih hadith for what you mentioned).
If you have an issue with fatwas that give no physical punishments for this crime, then take it up with the scholars of Hanafi madhab who derived this ruling.
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6e1b74 No.42120
>>42114
In rape only the gay rapist (you) would get executed.
>>42115
strawman, im not taking one sentence as a source, theres many hadith about this punishment, but its agreed the punishment for sodomy is death, if you deny it you are a quranist
>>42116
so you deny it or what? cuz all madhabs accept the punishment of death for sodomy
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f7952e No.42121
>>42120
I agree that death is A penalty for homosexual acts in Islam, but it is not a REQUiRED penalty. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you are obligated to do that thing. There are very few nations that have homosexuality as a capital offense and, even in those countries, you have to bring proof - not just your word.
The funny thing about that is in order to bring proof, you have to bring witnesses to the act or some form of photography, etc. So, after the sodomite gets his sentence, then you have to answer as to why you were watching two men having sex in the first place. You do realize it's forbidden for a man to look upon another man's genitals, right?
Check the mote in your own eye, brother.
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1489cd No.42137
>>42120
>so you deny it or what? cuz all madhabs accept the punishment of death for sodomy
Thats factually not true, there were some scholars that ruled they should be punished the same as fornicators if unmarried i.e. flogging, and like I mentioned some scholars of the Hanafi madhabs who rules that there shouldn't be any physical punishment at all, and instead should be tazir (up to the judge), I think Abu Hanifa himself held that position.
I accept the punishment of death for convicted sodomites, I have no issue with it. But what Im saying is us laymen cannot make our own interpretations, make factually incorrect statements like that 'they all say death', and try to interpret hadd for a crime based on only one hadith which is not even sahih. This is both dishonest, and discrediting all the work our scholars have done for centuries.
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6e1b74 No.42146
>>42121
nice assumptions
>>42137
Bring the hanafi source for your claim.
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1489cd No.42175
>>42146
Scholars debated about whether punishment should be death or not
>The scholars differed as to whether it is to be punished more severely than zina, or whether the punishment for zina should be more severe, or whether the punishments should be the same.
>Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to homosexuality, some of the scholars said that the hadd punishment for it is the same as the hadd punishment for zina, and it was said that it is less than that.
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality
Debate amongst Hanafi scholars
>Yes, the main position in the Hanafi school of law for many centuries was that someone convicted of sodomy (which in all the schools required four witnesses to the act of penetration) was not executed but only given a milder punishment or perhaps only disciplined by a judge.
https://almadinainstitute.org/blog/the-shariah-homosexuality-safeguarding-each-others-rights-in-a-pluralist-so/
>and Hanafis often suggest no physical punishment at all, leaving the choice to the judge's discretion. The founder of the Hanafi school Abu Hanifa refused to recognize the analogy between sodomy and zina, although his two principal students disagreed with him on this point. The Hanafi scholar Abu Bakr Al-Jassas (d. 981 AD/370 AH) argued that the two hadiths on killing homosexuals "are not reliable by any means and no legal punishment can be prescribed based on them".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam
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644698 No.42177
>>42175
Islamqa is the only good source. The rest…
Jonathan Brown, the author of the second one, is literally a kafir. He calls for insulting the Prophet(pbuh)
https://twitter.com/GtownMasjid/status/1239532736433598464?s=20
As for the other one it's a Wikipedia article and those aren't known for their reliability especially in such matters.
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1489cd No.42178
>>42177
No he's not a kafir, but him and the other yaqeenites hold misguided views.
I found this paper, that talks about the Hanafi positions on the issue, it lists all the sources for the claims you can check out
https://www.academia.edu/25121257/The_Hanafi_Stance_Regarding_The_One_Who_Engages_in_Homosexual_Acts
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a2a17b No.42179
>>42177
wow he went full ikhwani kufr
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ad3636 No.43064
>>42178
>>42179
Do not trust the yaqeenites they seem to be munafiqeens. They want to 'reform' islam because it doesnt fit with their liberal worldview. One of the founder even participated in an pagan ritual…
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300e6e No.44489
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717634 No.44534
>>42088
>>42087
>>42085
What either of you is saying is true but there are better ways to say it.
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ef2368 No.44535
>>44534
No, there is no better way to say it. If you validate behavior, it will continue. There really is no more polite way of saying it than, "You're doing it wrong. Stop it."
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