/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>40425 Edit: I'm going to sleep, will checkin on this thread in the morning

Salam

>>40425

Be Ibadi. It predates the schism and it's a mix of both. The only real difference between the Shia and the Sunni is political, about the succession of Muhammad(pbuih) as a political leader (caliph). It's a pretty stupid argument to still be having in 2020.

>>40427

>The only real difference between the Shia and the Sunni is political

If only it were that though.

>>40429

It really is just that. And don't show me some sect of 20 people who swing knives and cut themselves and pray to a dead caliph and claim that's all Shi'a or I'm going to start showing you dancing dervishes and Turkish brothels and claim that's all Sunni.

The difference really is only political. If you can't see that, then you're part of the problem.

>>40429

after researching ibdadi islam, I am shocked to see why it's not more mainstream, but i've only done a cursory search.

>>40431

This board's BO is Ibadi, but he's the only one I've ever actually spoken to.

>>40432

>Masjid

what's a BO??

>>40433

The BO is the Board Owner. The Owner of this Board.

>>40430

I see it as the root of the differences. It would be a lot cooler if the Shias doesn't think about the succession religiously to the point of allowing to curse the sahaba.

>some sect of 20 people who swing knives and cut themselves

>some sect

I mean sure not all of them cut themselves but the point is they allowed it. At least the major sect (twelvers).

>pray to a dead caliph

Now that's truly some sect.

Also, which political take is better?

>>40435

Neither is better. They're equally valid ways of being Muslim. You just have to decide if you want to pray with your hands at your chest or at your side. Both are Sunnah.

>>40433

Me. I am the "BO".

>>40432

>This board's BO is Ibadi

This is true.

>>40435

>which political take is better

That's something you have to decide for yourself.

>>40438

Sala'am Alaikum, Abullah Rashid!

>>40438

>That's something you have to decide for yourself

I know. Just asking the guy.

>>40439

Walaikum as-salam.

I think 'Ali should've succeeded, but I read more sunni hadith, pray in a sunni masjid and pray as sunnis pray. I try not to follow immediately what other people tell me what to do in prayer or practice until I see it in scriptures myself or they cite it.

Studying sunni/shi'a hadith and making decisions therein is how you should define your worship.

>>40439

Not sunnah.

>>40454

>Not sunnah.

wat?

In the 7th century, Allah sent a Messenger from the tribe of Quraish to the people of Mecca and surrounding Pagan Arabs. The purpose of this Prophet was to invite the idolaters to monotheism and the worship of Allah alone. Thus, the Prophet faced persecution and resistance from the Pagans who viewed his faith as a threat to their institutions.

HOWEVER, this Prophet also preached that his family, out of all people, were superior to all of mankind. He even claimed that his cousin, ‘Ali, was the best of all mankind after him. This Prophet even continuously asserted that only his cousin were to rule his subjects after his death, and on numerous occasions, he openly appointed his cousin, ‘Ali (out of all people), as a religious and political successor.

This prophet also regularly claimed that only twelve members from his household were to legitimately assume rulership of the community after him. Not only did this Prophet continuously assert that his household had exclusive rights to the political leadership of his subjects, but he also regularly asserted that his own family had exclusive religious authority over his religious community.

This Prophet received a book from God called the Quran. This book, as reported in various Twelver sources, was revealed in fourths. One fourth of it was in the merits of his own family, one fourth was in the blunders of his family’s enemies, one fourth was in stories and parables and the last fourth pertained to religious rulings.

This Prophet even claimed that his daughter and her husband (his cousin) were infallible, and he similarly claimed that 11 of his descendants were infallible as well. He even ventured to claim that those individuals from his family had knowledge of the unseen, and control over the universe (a concept later coined as Wilayah Takwiniyyah).

This Prophet even claimed that the followers and supporters of his family would rest in Heaven and that opponents of his family would dwell in Hell.

After this Prophet’s death, his closest followers and disciples took part in a massive conspiracy that usurped rulership from his family, which they were expected to assume. Then, his disciples proceeded to murder his own daughter inside her house. Then, this Prophet’s religion was hijacked (by his closest companions), and this hijacked/distorted version of Islam has prevailed in the Muslim community since then.

This is a brief summary of the Prophet’s life in light of Twelver theology. If someone were to claim that we have misrepresented Twelver theology in this article, then we challenge them to demonstrate how we have done so.

>>40431

The Ibaadis are a group of Khaarijis who are named after their founder, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ibaad al-Tameemi. They claim that they are not Khaarijis, and they deny this origin. But the truth is that they are not extreme Khaarijis like the Azraqis, but they agree with the Khaarijis in many issues such as denying the divine attributes, saying that the Qur’aan is created, and allowing rebellion against oppressive rulers.

>>40464

>The Ibaadis are a group of Khaarijis

At the beginning, sort of, but not anymore.

>they agree with the Khaarijis in many issues

"You know who also drove a car? HITLER!" is a terrible argument. All Muslims pray the 5 daily prayers, the Khaarij also prayed the 5 daily prayers, omg does this mean we're all Khaarij?!

>>40464

>allowing rebellion against oppressive rulers

Ain't nothin' wrong with that, son.

>>40467

>>40466

It was narrated from Anas bin Malik that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

‘The Children of Israel split into seventy-one sects, and my nation will split into seventy-two, all of which will be in Hell apart from one, which is the main body.”

Sunan Ibn Majah 3993

>>40468

What does that have to do with rebelling against oppressive leaders? If the President started rounding up Muslims for death camps, you can be damn sure I'll be the first to rebel. Will you just sit there and take it?

>>40468

So which is the "main branch"? Your personal one? This smacks of a Christian argument over which Bible is the right one …

>>40469

I'll be right there with you, akhi.

>>40470

I would hope all brothers and sisters would stand against the oppression of Muslims.

>>40470

I'm pretty sure the "main branch" isn't the one which only 0.2% of the Muslim population adheres to, and over three quarters of which is in Oman.

I'm also pretty sure it's the one with 85% of adherents.

>>40472

>Popular = Right

lol

>>40473

>"Main body"=0.2% of the body

lol

>>40474

You're the only one claiming a specific sect is the main body.

>>40475

Lol only one sect is the main body and it definitely isn't some splinter sect 0.2% of the Muslim population follow literally named after a man.

Ibadi, Bareilvi, Ismaili, Qadiani.

Notice anything about their names? lol.

>>40476

Nobody ever claimed the Ibadi were the "main body". Literally nobody. Are you just trying to pick a fight with the BO?

>named after a man

Do you realize that for the first thousand years of its existence, Islam was called "Mohammedanism"?

>>40476

Literally every sect of Islam is named after a man, ya dink. Shafi, Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali.

Notice anything about their names? lol.

>>40468

>my nation will split into seventy-two

Well, he was wrong. It's split into the hundreds.

>>40480

>"All of which will be in Hell apart from one, which is the main body.”

Well I'm glad we cleared that up.

Also

>Mohammedanism

I was talking about what it's own adherents call it. Not some priest who thought Muslims worship Muhammad (peace be upon him) like they worship Jesus.

>>40481

>Shafi, Hanafi, Maliki

>Sects in Islam

You might want to look them up. They are different schools in Sunni Islam.

>Well, he was wrong. It's split into the hundreds.

You're not a Muslim anyway lol. Also, make those hundreds into thousands, because I invented a couple thousand more lol.

>>40484

>You're not a Muslim

You don't have the authority to make that claim and pay heed to Rule 6.

https://8kun.top/islam/rules.html

>>40476

>Ibadi, Bareilvi, Ismaili, Qadiani

<splinter sects named after men

>Shafi, Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali

<t-those are j-just different schools in Islam

Sunni hypocrisy, as usual.

>>40488

Ok but

>Muhammad (peace be upon him) was wrong.

>Why are you takfeering me?

>>40489

>“If one closely examines the Fiqh of the four schools, one will never come across any difference of opinions as far as the basic principles of Islam are concerned. The differences mainly centre around Furu’ȃt (tiny branches) of theology rather than the Ușȗl (the fundamental principles) of belief.” Doi (1984, p. 85)

No one in those schools ever calls himself anything other than Sunni. Only after being Sunni are they Maliki or Hanbali.

Ibadis etc. on the other hand… lol.

Anyway my point wasn't that because a sect is named after someone means it's wrong, but it is a pretty big indicator of being wrong.

>>40490

Ibadis don't claim to be anything but Muslim - neither Sunni nor Shi'a. They simply say, "There is only one way to be Muslim." and leave it at that. They don't even really call themselves "Ibadi", but acknowledge that their ideology was founded by someone who broke from the Khaariji and returned to the Prophet. I don't know why you hate them so much when they pre-date your beloved scholars.

>>40490

>Muhammad(saws) was infallible

Ok, Muhammadan.

>>40492

Lol were you thinking that I had a problem with their name? I just gave it as an example that misguided sects have them after their founder.

>"There is only one way to be Muslim."

Yeah, their way. And I don't hate Ibaadis, or Shias or any of the other sects in particular. I just have a general hate for all of them, like for non-Muslims. I'm just amazed why you are trying so hard to prove that they are true Muslims.

>>40499

They are Muslims whether you like it or not. The harder you push to claim they're not, the harder I will push back against you. Your hatred doesn't hurt them, but it does offend Allah.

>>40500

So the guy who's ignoring the sayings of the Prophet (peace be upon him) that "all of which (sects) will be in Hell apart from one," by saying "they're equally valid ways of being Muslim." is telling me that I am offending Allah.

Okay.

>>40513

Whack tajweed? Example please? I haven't heard of such a thing.

>>40514

Majoosi Arabic:

https://youtu.be/-JA2MpH8aa0

https://youtu.be/S89_Rn38qWM

>>40515

>Majoosi

This is a derogatory word and you need to stop using it.

>>40517

It was narrated from Aishah that the Prophetﷺ said:

"May Allah curse people who take the graves of their prophets as Masjids."

Sunan an-Nasa'i 2046

>>40520

If Allah curses them, so be it. You, however, are to abide by the rules of the board. The word has been filtered since it is derogatory just as all epithets are filtered on this board.

>>40525

So this board does not follow the rules of Allah? If Allah curses someone, then it is also permissible for Muslims to curse them. Are you going to make forbidden what is permissible?

"O ye who believe! Forbid not the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, and transgress not, Lo! Allah loveth not transgressors."

5|87

>>40527

Pejoratives have never been allowed here. That's why we can't call homosexuals ☻s or call Jews ☻s. Also no "le happy merchant" or Tyrone memes. It's been that way for over 5 years. Maybe you should read the rules and lurk more.

>>40427

>Be Ibadi

You are basically telling them to be from khawarij . ibadis are even more lost than shia . they takfir the 4 khulafa . abu bakr omar othmane ali رضي الله عنهم و ارضاهم اجمعين .

و لعنة الله على الاباضية الخوارج كلاب اهل النار و على كل من سب عرض النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من الرافضة الانجاس .

>>42454

>everybody but ME is the wrong kind of Muslim

Piss off, wahhabi

>>42455

I don't know why the BO hasn't banned you yet…

>>42459

How do you know I haven't? Except for extreme circumstances, I never ban for more than 24 hours since there is no point. VPNs exist and are encouraged. I can only ban an IP, not a person.

>>42461

He is one of the most prolific posters on this board. He is very easy to spot. I think you only banned him in one instance when he was disrespecting the Prophet PBUH.

>>42468

Looking at the IP post history, he's not that prolific. I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the "boogeyman" ideology. There are 7-8 relatively prolific IPs on this board and his IP isn't among them. However, being ignorant or mildly rude isn't really a bannable offense. If it were, there would be nobody left!

>>42459

The BO is the khariji ibadhi

Sunni is basically following the strongest scriptural evidence, and respecting difference of opinion. It's more in line with the quran than twelver shiism, which requires you to believe in 12 inffalible imams that are like prophets except by name, and are not mentionned in the quran or authentic narrations or else you are an infidel. Except if you mean zaydi shiism, which is pretty much hanafi sunni islam with some political differences. There's no point in entering a sect when you're new to islam, focus on learning tawhid, praying, zakat, fasting first, the basics every muslim does. So basically, read quran for yourself, and you will see it contradicts the extremist ideology of twelver imamism. Then perhaps you will argue about the political preference of Ali , then it's a political question and not a religious one. The split is not as big as people make it up to be. It's mainly a clash between extreme esoteric zealots who went beyond the classical interpretations of the quran to justify anything using metaphors and the traditional muslims of the world.

>>40513

Mut'ah is not prostitution just like escorting isn't prostitution. They involve paying a woman for her time, they are not "buying sex".

>>42498

>They involve paying a woman for her time, they are not "buying sex".

They are paying money for her time, and during that time they have sex. That is pretty much the definition of buying sex.

>>40427

>The only real difference between the Shia and the Sunni is political

they have difference in aqida

I cannot but notice that the hadith >>40468 clearly says that there's no salvation outside the main body of Islam and yet most of you in this thread seem to be like "nuh-uh". Also most muslims I've heard talking on this subject seem to disregard the split, as if it doesn't matter which sect of Islam you're part of. Why is it so?

>>43305

According to you we're all going to Hell anyway, so what do you care?

>>43312

First: I'm curious whether you actually don't care what your prophet says, or is there another interpretation of this hadith.

Second: I like to get to know other religions better and Sunni/Shia split has been interesting me for a while now (no syncretism ofc, I fully believe all of you are infidels and should convert, just like you think I'm a kafir and should convert)

Third: it hits home. I see people all around saying that "oh well, it doesn't matter which church you're part of". I saw the same among muslims, but I thought that it's an acceptable view, but it seems to me, that that hadith clearly teaches Islamic version of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" and all of you seem to just be ignoring it. Makes me kinda sad to see it in other religions too

>>43313

On a long enough timeline, all religions splinter. Sectarianism is the way of all mankind. Muhammad(pbuh) was neither Sunni nor Shi'a just as Jesus was neither Catholic nor Protestant.

The only way to be Muslim is to follow Qur'an and the Sunnah. Everything else is meaningless.

>>43315

>On a long enough timeline, all religions splinter

That's true, but they split, because they have believes, that are in contradiction to each other and when that happens, both can't be true. (P)v(~P), tertium non datur. And if orthodoxy is part of what God demands, then we better be sure we're in the right team.

>Muhammad(pbuh) was neither Sunni nor Shi'a

He wouldn't call himself that, but of all people he knew best if Ali was the appointed successor or not. Either he did want Ali to take over (which would mean Shia's are right) or he didn't for whatever reason, which makes Shia wrong. And if there are any differences in belief between Sunnis and Shia's, Muhammad is THE person that knows which answer is correct.

>The only way to be Muslim is to follow Qur'an and the Sunnah. Everything else is meaningless

Well… It doesn't look like it. "my nation will split into seventy-two, all of which will be in Hell apart from one, which is the main body". Split into seventy-two. Seventy-one in Hell. One, the main body, in Paradise. Kinda makes it sound like it is a ver big deal.

And I'd like to point out, that I'm not saying it definitely means what I think it means, but so far no one gave any argument as to why he understands this hadith differently

>>43316

>so far no one gave any argument as to why …

>>11001

>This board is the 8chan Masjid and should be treated as such. It is a place for Muslims to gather and discuss Islam and not intended as a place where Muslims must defend themselves or their religion from outsiders.

Nobody here is going to argue or justify anything to you, outsider.

>>40463

I don't know if you're still here, but if you are, do you have a source for these claims? And if not, does anyone else? I realize you're just representing what Twelver Shi'ites believe, but I would be interested to see where this comes from, because I've never heard of some of this.

>>40464

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11529/al-ibaadiyyah

>>40463

http://www.twelvershia.net/2019/04/25/shia-islam-in-the-eyes-of-a-non-muslim/

>>44340

>>44341

Yeah, we get ocassional pretenders here who copy/paste from other places. They're easy to spot and ignore.

>>44348

>Ibadis came from the khawarij

And Shi'a came from Sunni. So, by your logic, if Ibadi are Khawarij, then Shi'a are Sunni.

>>40425

Love the Ahlul Bayt as much as the Shi'a claim to do, and follow the Salaf as much as the Sunnis do

>>44409

+1