/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>33832

this all happened over one night. i forgot to add that after sharing this story, one brother mentioned to me "Muhaddath" as possible explanation

>>33833

this entity was also witnessed preternaturally (be it paranoia or a legitimate sense) and its iridescence and eyes were witnessed by more than myself.

it did not radiate an ominous energy but was rather a calming and soothing, warm feeling, yet extremely inquisitive.

if you can imagine instead of a curtain drop on stage, you see thousands of woven vines with leaves. and each leaf sprouts a blossom that becomes an eye with a piercing stare. thousands of vines covered in these leaf-eye-blossoms.

it may be that I had/have a neurological condition, but by the grace and will of Allah I have been guided to the truth, and I would rather die knowing the truth and earn my place in hellfire than spend one more moment being the ignorant, misguided, arrogant, nihilistic atheist i was before;

blind and violently averse to the truth, i have been rectified

>>33832

>>33833

>>33834

I think you need to seek the help of a mental health professional.

>>33832

Since it guided you to Islam, it can't be bad I guess. Might be an angel. Can you contact it again? Or could be a case of schizophrenia, but since you're married I assume you are a functioning person. Either way, this story sounds legit, especially the iridescent color, since it's common in my heavenly dreams, the water is that color, some gems too. I've never heard of muhaddath. Could it be someone like Luqman (as)? Whom angels loved and visited because of his wisdom.

>>33836

Caliph Umar would be an example of one.

>>33835

I was not the only witness as I stated.

There have been many such experiences reported in the Islamic world as well, as the one I conveyed in the khutbah I attended. You would rather that I have mental illness than perhaps Allah guided and rectified me?

Or perhaps you are saying I should go about a process of elimination before advancing any further. Whether I have a cognitive condition is irrelevant to the reality that I witnessed and the changes it brought about in my life.

>>33836

`Umar was given the gift of true inspiration which is the characteristic of Allah’s Friends named kashf or "unveiling." The Prophet said: "In the nations long before you were people who were spoken to [by the angels] although they were not prophets. If there is anyone of them in my Community, truly it is `Umar ibn al-Khattab." This narration is elucidated by the two narrations whereby "Allah has engraved truth on the tongue of `Umar and his heart" and "If there were a Prophet after me verily it would be `Umar." Al-Tirmidhi said that according to Ibn `Uyayna "spoken to" (muhaddathûn) means "made to understand" (mufahhamûn), while in his narration Muslim added: "Ibn Wahb explained ‘spoken to’ as ‘inspired’ (mulham)." This is the majority’s opinion according to Ibn Hajar who said: "‘Spoken to’ means ‘by the angels’."

From sunnah.org

Book 4: The Book of Prayers (Kitab Al-Salat)

Chapter 127: Descending of tranquillity by the recitation of the qur'an

Hadith 1742:

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri told of Usaid b. Hudair saying that one night he recited the Qur'an in his enclosure, when the horse began to jump about. He again recited and (the horse) again jumped. He again recited and it jumped as before. Usaid said: I was afraid lest it should trample (his son) Yahya. I stood near it (the horse) and saw something like a canopy over my head with what seemed to be lamps in it, rising up in the sky till it disappeared. I went to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the next day and said: Messenger of Allah, I recited the Qur'an during the night in my enclosure and my horse began to jump. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: You should have kept on reciting, Ibn Hudair. He (Ibn Hudair) said: I recited. It jumped (as before). Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) again said: You should have kept on reciting, Ibn Hudair. He (Ibn Hudair) said: I recited and it again jumped (as before). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) again said: You should kave kept on reciting, Ibu Hudair. He (Ibn Hudair) said: (Messenger of Allah) I finished (the recitation) for Yahya was near (the horse) and I was afraid lest it should trample him. I saw something like a canopy with what seemed to be lamps in it rising up in the sky till it disappeared. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Those were the angels who listened to you; and if you had continued reciting, the people would have seen them in the morning and they would not have concealed themselves from them.

>>33835

www.quran.com/1/5

Are you saying sickness, not the will of Allah, is what guided me to Islam? That I am only Muslim because I am psychiatrically ill? Brother it feels to me like you are dismissing my testimony of faith as the ramblings of a madman. Why would you abuse me like this?

>>33842

Do you even read what you write? You come across as a rambling madman. Stop with the /fringe/-tier smiley nonsense. You even reply in threes like he does. You're not a prophet, you're not wali, you're not having visions. You just found some esoteric stuff online and came here to LARP. Prove me wrong.

>>33839

>>33840

>>33841

Who was the other witness? Can you contact the entity again? If not, then just go on with your life. Don't assume things about yourself.

>>33844

you have no right to abuse me like this.

>You're not a prophet, you're not wali, you're not having visions

i made no claim to this, i relayed what i experienced.

>You just found some esoteric stuff online and came here to LARP.

no, I made these connections after years. you are accusing me with much suspicion and are sinning against me.

>You even reply in threes like he does

what are you talking about reply in threes like he does? are you familiar with english? you didn't give context as to this pronoun. and again I am unfamiliar with what you say, "reply in threes", are you referring to multiple responses? and suggesting I am imitating Muhammad peace be upon him by repeating what I say three times? not only is that incongruous with what I have done, but why are you belittling imitating an action of the Prophet peace be upon him to ensure clarity of speech?

>>33848

>Who was the other witness?

wife, mother-in-law

>Can you contact the entity again?

why would I need to? I have islam.

> If not, then just go on with your life. Don't assume things about yourself.

that's exactly what I have been doing. Don't assume things about me either? I brought up the topic of muhaddathun to discuss it, acquire knowledge, reports, descriptions, etc.

>>33844

you however are abusing me, calling me a kafr who is larping and slandering me. may Allah guide you.

>>33848

>Don't assume things about yourself.

as i said…

Allahu A'lam knows what my actual experience was. nowhere was there an assumption about myself.

>>33850

>wife, mother-in-law

Have they become muslims? If not, then why not if they witnessed it?

>why would I need to? I have islam.

To get more information about it/them.

>>33852

My wife did alhamdulillah. the mother-in-law is an alcoholic christian and, without being prompted, mentioned feeling the same preternatural sensations of peace and another presence, a very familiar description my wife and I were feeling, as her and I were seeing this phenomenon more directly and were more aware of it than my mother-in-law.

They witnessed something, but not sure on what they witnessed, so at best it can just reinforce their belief in angels or the like, not entirely of Islam as we were not educated that far yet.

after several months of dawah my mother-in-law accepted islam, alhamdulillah, but still needs dua for her guidance as she is difficult to approach.

>>why would I need to? I have islam.

>To get more information about it/them.

this is true, but to what ends? I was contacted, I don't have a number to call except for salah. what information should I be asking them? are they angel, djinn, muslim, why did you appear to me?

that is, presuming there was an entity. do I make salah for another encounter?

the experience shook my wife and i to our core and absolutely eradicated our nihlistic, atheistic belief. if it weren't for the message it conveyed to my heart, i might have simply wrote it off something like an interdimensional alien spying on us.

>>33853

if the entity is the case, and it is pure in intention, i wonder if it would help with ascertaining information about al-Mahdi and ad-Dajjal.

is there no history of muhaddathan claimants in islam, or those who used djinn to make claimants?

>>33854

and to be honest, the initial experience with this entity, although it wasn't unpleasant, it was extremely powerful and overwhelming. it was not easy but frightening as nothing like that occurred to me before.

i'm terrified of those eyes and that piercing glare and radiating tranquility. if I had the same experience today, I would hide in sajda that is how startled I was.

>>33855

>>33852

perhaps we could all make dua for another meeting with this entity?

w'Allahi i am not of those who would fabricate an answer to such a dua, so i would love if it's permissible to ask Allah to make contact with this entity again, that we make dua for further information

>>33850

>I brought up the topic of muhaddathun to discuss it

No, you brought up the topic to claim to be one and cry about anyone who doesn't believe you. Do you have any idea just how many LARPers show up here claiming to be mystical/esoteric/truly knowledgeable? You don't want to learn or discuss anything. You came here for praise and to try to turn this board into /fringe/. That ain't happenin'.

>>33833

>>33832

>>33834

>>33839

>>33840

>>33841

>>33842

>>33850

>>33851

>>33853

>>33855

>>33856

I think you are a liar. Angels didn’t communicate with the Sahaba, and they were the best generation. There are a very few narrations where the Angels would say Salam, give food or other very brief forms of contact…but they were with the best of the Sahaba.

The idea that an Angel would come to someone who is a super kafir (an atheist, even the pagans in Arabia didn’t claim that God doesn’t exist), to give him a special message because he is special is very hard to believe.

>perhaps we could all make dua for another meeting with this entity?

You want us all to make Dua to help you call upon something other than Allah? Guidance comes from Allah not from some hallucination. The “Apostle” Paul had a “vision” too, and he destroyed Christian monotheism with it.

>>33832

>gave me the understanding that the bible was close

How could something be “close” when the Quran says (10-32)

Thus is God your true Lord. In the absence of truth there is nothing but falsehood. Then where are you turning?

>>33858

>Angels didn’t communicate with the Sahaba, and they were the best generation.

>>33859

‘Umar is singled out for mention because in many instances during the Prophet’s time, he expressed his view and Qur’an was revealed that supported his view, so his view was in accordance with what was revealed of Qur’an later on. Thus he was as close to Prophethood as he was to the Qur’an, but there is no Prophet after Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

Al-Minnaawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

Ibn Hajar said: ‘Umar is singled out for mention because of the many incidents during the Prophet’s time when he expressed his view, concerning which Qur’an was subsequently revealed that agreed with his views.

End quote from Fayd al-Qadeer (5/325).

This is like what the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said to ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him): “You are to me like Haroon to Moosa, except that there is no Prophet after me.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4416), Muslim (2404).

‘Ali was close to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) because of his close ties of kinship with him, in addition to what he heard of strong faith. And the same is true here.

Hence the scholars only mention this hadith in the context of discussing the virtues of ‘Umar; none of them mention it to prove that ‘Umar is better than Abu Bakr, because they are unanimously agreed that Abu Bakr is the best of this ummah after its Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said, after quoting the hadith mentioned above and a number of other hadiths that speak of the status of ‘Umar and that he is inspired (muhaddath):

Despite that, as-Siddeeq [Abu Bakr] attained a higher level of perfection and attained a perfect level of believing the Prophet, so he did not acquire any knowledge except through the Prophet, and the Prophet is infallible, whereas the one who is inspired (muhaddath), like ‘Umar, sometimes follows his heart and what he is inspired with, but his heart is not infallible. Therefore he has to check whatever he is inspired with against what the Messenger brought; then if it is in harmony with that, he should accept it, but if it is contrary to that, he must reject it.

Hence ‘Umar retracted some of his suggestions, and the Sahaabah would sometimes debate with him and quote evidence to him to prove that his view was not correct; when proof from the Qur’an and Sunnah became clear to him, he would go back to that and abandon his view.

Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq, on the other hand, only took knowledge from the Messenger, not from the inspiration of his heart. Therefore he was more perfect than the one who was inspired (muhaddath – i.e., ‘Umar). After Abu Bakr, there was no siddeeq (person strong and true in faith) who was better than him, and after ‘Umar there was no muhaddath (person who is inspired) who was better than him.

End quote from ar-Radd ‘ala al-Mantiqiyyeen (514).

>>33868

The second caliph, more than any other personality, influenced the thoughts and ideas of the Sunnites. As his period of caliphate was a highly crucial juncture in the history of Islam, his thoughts and deeds, too, were of great significance for Sunnites Muslims. This is the extent to which he is considered as a role model who made no mistakes and every word or act of him can be trusted as a religious tradition. Therefore, it is necessary to talk about him here.

The high status of 'Umar in Sunnites thinking, can not be compared to anyone else. In the narrations told about 'Umar's good traits, the ranking attributed to him is a little lower than prophethood! This status has been interpreted as “Muhaddath”. Muhaddath is said to be someone who receives “revelations”.

In a narration found in Bukhari, Muslim and in addition toothers, Abu Hurayra has been quoted as saying that the Prophet Muhammad said, “There were people among the Israelian tribe who received revelations without being a prophet. If there is anyone in my Umma who is such, that person is certainly 'Umar.” According to Qastalani, the commentator of the book of Bukhari, the “if” in the above-mentioned sentence, does not mean “hesitation” but means “emphasis”.

Besides such quotations, there is, on the whole, a certain idea about the caliph's measures at the Prophet's time, indicating that before God revealed something, 'Umar had ordered that and then, God had sent down some verses in that regard. These instances are known as ”'Umar's Muwafiqat”,or 'Umar's agreement.

It is interesting that in some cases, the viewpoint of the Prophet was in conflict with 'Umar's, but God has sent down verses agreeing with 'Umar's idea! 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Umar has been quoted as saying that all the verses God sent down about something discussed by 'Umar and others, were in accordance with 'Umar's idea. Some of such examples are saying prayers for Ibrahim, the verse of Hijab, the Badr captives, banning drinking, not saying prayers for hypocrites and so on. It is evident, then, why 'Umar's status was close to prophethood and later, his way of behavior was regarded superior even to that of the Prophet.

>give him a special message because he is special is very hard to believe.

i never claimed to be special or to receive a special message.

w'Allahi I am not lying either.

>You want us all to make Dua to help you call upon something other than Allah?

people are telling me to try and make contact. it was the reason i turned away from atheism and looked for islam. who said I was calling upon it?

>>33859

the Qur'an says that the prior revelations of torah, injeel, zabur, etc. are contained in distorted form by the people of the book. did you really misunderstand this? that the bible, which is followed by the people of the book, contains some revelation and guidance, but is not the true guidance?

[5:48]

And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it.

[2:79] Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

really, do the math here. you can't call me a faasiq without evidence. you are just slandering me.

>No, you brought up the topic to claim to be one and cry about anyone who doesn't believe you.

no, i brought it up to learn. do not lie and claim you can peer into my heart. i have had enough of your abuse.

>You don't want to learn or discuss anything.

projecting. you're a great example of the sunnah. away wtih your hypocrisy and animosity.

[49:6]

investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.

>You came here for praise

w'Allahi I did not.

you have only come here to attack. you don't support your attacks against me at all with evidence. I have only denied them and have looked for answers. I have never felt so unwelcomed in a masjid for sharing genuine experiences and the truth of what happened to me. you call me a liar without evidence and multiple people abuse me.

that is not what islam is. and this dispute will be settled by Allah on the day of judgment. I have not lied and you have no right to abuse me in this manner.

>>33858

>Guidance comes from Allah not from some hallucination.

Allah can't guide through an Angel? you are mistaken here. If Allah wills a hallucination to guide you, yeah, guidance can come from Allah however He so chooses, be it inspiration or be it hallucination.

however, you are still abusing me and to call me a liar you need to produce proof. you are not giving me decent treatment whatsoever, you haven't educated or answered my questions, you have just attacked, attacked, attacked.

it's your scroll of deeds, fill as you like. i do not however have on my scroll a lie about this experience, nor do you have on your scroll insight into my heart.

leave and stop harassing me or be a kind believer and practice the sunnah.

>>33872

consider this did happen to me:

regardless of if it was an angel or not is irrelevant, your treatment is unnecessary, abuse, and slander. you are committing evil against me and i will not tolerate it.

you are going to accuse me then produce your proof if you are truthful. false accusations are not light in islam.

>>33865

after i studied for months i came across this but still wasn't sure what it was that i experienced. christianity and hinduism weren't offering guidance that spoke to my heart, but islam did and answered the questions i had. if it were not for that experience on that night i would likely still be atheist.

why others feel the need to attack me for embracing islam is absurd. why not say alhamdulillah that such an experience lead me to islam? i am not claiming to be special, or in commune with angels, or anything of the sort. i came here to share, to hopefully have others share, and to learn.

—–

many of you, instead of greeting with peace, or investigating me as you would want to be investigated – loving your brother as you wish yourself to be loved – instead attacked me with animosity and slander.

how is this what you learned from islam yet I learned that good manners are essential in islam, and that you should even investigate the reports of a known liar?

yet you refute my experiences on no basis, dismissing them as lies, without knowing me to be a liar, and without trying to find me to be truthful.

were someone to tell me this happened to them, i would believe them. and the muslims I have shared this with at masjid believed me. so why is it that you call me a liar with no evidence?

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said,

“Beware of suspicion, for suspicion is the most false of tales.

Do not seek out faults, do not spy on each other, do not contend with each other,

do not envy each other, do not hate each other, and do not turn away from each other.

Rather, be servants of Allah as brothers.”

Why will you turn away from me and not seek knowledge with me?

Narrated Anas bin Malik: “Two of the companions of the Prophet ﷺ departed from him on a dark night and were led by two lights like lamps (going in front of them from Allah as a miracle) lighting the way in front of them, and when they parted, each of them was accompanied by one of these lights till he reached their (respective) houses.”

[Sahih Bukhari , Book 8, Hadith 454]

Narrated anas : “Two men left the Prophet ﷺ on a very dark night. Suddenly a light came in front of them, and when they separated, the light also separated along with them.”

[Sahih Bukhari, Book 8, Hadith 454]

>>33859

>>33870

>>gave me the understanding that the bible was close

>How could something be “close”

[5:48] Judge, then, between

>the followers of earlier revelation in accordance with what God has bestowed from on high,

and

>do not follow their errant views,

forsaking the truth that has come unto thee. Unto every one of you have We appointed a [different] law and way of life.

>>33858

>The idea that an Angel would come to someone who is a super kafir (an atheist

[14:4,27] Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will.

Allah confirmeth those who believe by a firm saying in the life of the world and in the Hereafter, and Allah sendeth wrong-doers astray. And Allah doeth what He will.

[26:69] As for those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good.

[16:33-34] Await they aught say that the angels should come unto them or thy Lord's command should come to pass? Even so did those before them.

Allah wronged them not, but they did wrong themselves, So that the evils of what they did smote them, and that which they used to mock surrounded them.

–

so here we see, Allah guideth whom He wills . He has guided atheists before, no?

[2:26] He misleadeth many thereby, and He guideth many thereby; and He misleadeth thereby only miscreants;

why would I have been guided to Islam if I am a liar and LARPer and miscreant? verily my shahadah will testify against you by saying I am LARPing faasiq on my deen.

>>33874

Where did I attack you? There are more than 1 posters ITT

>>33874

>the muslims I have shared this with at masjid believed me

No, they don't. They're just humoring you as one would any child with a fantastical story.

>>33868

>>33869

That has nothing to do with Umar, or any other Sahaba, having direct conversations with angels. I challenge you to find a reference of a direct conversation. Not some allegorical verses of the Quran or indirect references. It is my understanding that Angels can sometimes indirectly inspire people to take a certain course of action…but that is within someones thoughts…not a big shiny light coming down and talking to people.

Umar Ibn Khattab (RA) and Abu Bakr had good intuition when dealing in religious matters. They were not receiving revelation or talking to Angels. That is something Prophets do.

>>33870

>people are telling me to try and make contact.

Calling upon an unknown entity to come and talk to you? That is a bad idea. Any kind of guidance someone needs is in the Quran and Sunnah. If you go around calling upon some unseen entity, you don’t know what is going to show up.

>really, do the math here. you can't call me a faasiq without evidence. you are just slandering me.

I said I think you are a liar. That is the truth, because I really do think you are a liar. That statement is not a slander. A slander would be me saying “You are a liar.”

You are being overly defensive and taking Quran verses out of context to try and make them apply to unrelated things. If you are telling the truth, you should consider that maybe it was a jinn or something messing with you. In that case, if it guided you to Islam, that is good. No other investigation of whatever it said is necessary, because the end result of you accepting Islam is the best possible outcome. Trying to contact whatever it was again could be dangerous. Trying to have a chat with some jinn isn’t exactly smart.

>>33876

The truth and falsehood are black and white. Paul wrote about 90% of the Bible and he was a falsifier. 2+2=4.

2+2=7 is not "close". It is wrong.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah (RA) that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (RA) came to the Prophet (PBUH) with some written material he had got from one of the people of the Book. He read it to the Prophet (PBUH), and he got angry and said: “Are you confused (about your religion), O son of al-Khattaab? By the One in Whose hand is my soul, I have brought it (the message of Islam) to you clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if Musa were alive, he would have no option but to follow me.”

Al-Qurtubi (RA) said:

If the one who reads it – namely the Qur’an – will have a tenfold reward or more for each letter, according to what we mentioned in the introduction to this book, then turning away from it and towards other Books is misguidance and loss, and it is a bad deal and waste of time.

An-Nawawi (RA) said:

The books of the Torah and Gospel are among the things that it is prohibited to seek benefit therein, because they changed and altered them.

>>33882

>if it guided you to Islam, that is good

It didn't guide him to Islam. It guided him to /islam/. Mostly because /christian/ threw him out.

>>33882

>I challenge you to find a reference of a direct conversation.

i never said there was direct conversation. it was in my heart. not conversation.

>I said I think you are a liar. That is the truth, because I really do think you are a liar.

Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said:

لَا يَحِلُّ لِامْرِئٍ مُسْلِمٍ سَمِعَ مِنْ أَخِيهِ كَلِمَةً أَنْ يَظُنَّ بِهَا سُوءًا وَهُوَ يَجِدُ لَهَا فِي شَيْءٍ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ مَصْدَرًا

It is not lawful for a Muslim who hears a word from his brother to suspect him of evil when he can find something good about it.

Source: al-Tamhīd 18/20

Ja’far ibn Muhammad, may Allah have mercy on him, said:

إِذَا بَلَغَكَ عَنْ أَخِيكَ الشَّيْءُ تُنْكِرُهُ فَالْتَمِسْ لَهُ عُذْرًا وَاحِدًا إِلَى سَبْعِينَ عُذْرًا فَإِنْ أَصَبْتَهُ وَإِلا قُلْ لَعَلَّ لَهُ عُذْرًا لا أَعْرِفُهُ

If you hear something from your brother that you reject, then make an excuse for him up to seventy excuses. If you cannot do it, then say: Perhaps he has an excuse I do not know.

Source: Shu’ab al-Imān 7853

>>33883

>Paul wrote about 90% of the Bible and he was a falsifier.

wow you are uneducated.

you also didn't respond to what I quoted from the qur'an. do we or do we not worship the same God of the people of the book? i'm done talking with you because you are clearly not willing to converse or read.

>>33884

false allegations and more abuse. lies and takfir.

if i came to you when i first started researching Islam, I would have been driven away from it by your abuse, arrogance, and mistreatment.

i am done with this thread as it is very clear that none of you are actually open to discussion, none of you want to practice islam, you literally just want to call someone a liar without evidence, debase and abuse them.

this is the worst behaviour i have received from "muslims". i fear Allah for your sake and the recompense for your abuse of me.

i take my leave. i won't tolerate abuse or people who claim to be muslim but have given me their worst character i can witness

>>33874

>>33880

>Where did I attack you?

when i made the — i separated my response to you from the rest of the post. to further clarify i said "many of you", not including you. sorry if i hurt you brother

>>33881

so now you are calling me and other muslims liars and prevaricators.

>>33887

People humor children. There's nothing wrong with listening to a child's fantasy and playing along with them. The only liar here is you.

>>33885

>none of you are actually open to discussion

"Look at me! I'm a saint!" is not discussion.

>you literally just want to call someone a liar without evidence, debase and abuse them.

No, just you.

>i am done with this thread

See you tomorrow. Thread's already bumplocked anyway.

Here is a story about someone who was shown a dream in which led him to Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF-5XzQAmGw

Robert Davila is happy to be Muslim, even though he is in hardship. His Islam is not based upon the dream he had and telling everyone about it. He is focused on Allah, not on telling stories.

>>33892

> If you want people to say “OOO! AAHHH! Tell me more of your mystical experiences!” then you need to go somewhere else.

explicitly said I didn't. you are an abusive liar.

>This has nothing to do with the Bible being “close” to the truth.

29:46 And do not argue with the people of the Book except in that which is better; except for those who are wicked among them; and say: "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we submit."

>>33900

>>33892

The Holy Qur'an 2:77-78 – Translation by Yusuf Ali

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who WRITE the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.”

The Book refers to the book of the People of the Book, which section 9 in Chapter 2 talks about. The Noble Qur'an clearly says that the Book was corrupted by men, “those who WRITE the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,” [1]. It can’t get any clearer then that!

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle(Prophet Muhammad) is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!”

Now, as you can see from the above verses the Qur'an claims the Book of the People of the Book have corrupted their own books. With that in mind let’s move on;

The following verses are in question:

The Holy Qur'an 5:48 – Translation by Yusuf Ali

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

The Holy Qur'an 5:47 – Translation by Yusuf Ali

Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed therein

Answer(by brother Ron):

The first verse is referring to the Gospel and that basically the truth of the Qur'an can be found in their very book. They would ask the Prophet(pbuh) to decide between their matters but would be hypocritical about it. Then they are told to look into their very books which correspond with the very judgments of the Prophet. So how could they reject his decisions when their own books contained that very judgment they asked for? For something related please see this link: http://understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=445

The first verse is referring to the Gospel and that basically the truth of the Qur'an can be found in their very book. They would ask the Prophet(pbuh) to decide between their matters but would be hypocritical about it. Then they are told to look into their very books which correspond with the very judgments of the Prophet. So how could they reject his decisions when their own books contained that very judgment they asked for? For something related please see this link: http://understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=445

Next:

The Holy Qur'an 10:94 – Translation by Yusuf Ali

If thou (Muhammad) are in doubt as to what We have revealed, then ask the People of the Book.

Answer:

Firstly, you could be referring to anyone. Only one translation has translated it similar to that the one in question:

The Holy Qur'an 10:94 – Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan

So if you (O Muhammad SAW) are in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto you, (i.e. that your name is written in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) then ask those who are reading the Book (the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) before you. Verily, the truth has come to you from your Lord. So be not of those who doubt (it).

>>33890

produce your proof if you are truthful.

>>33883

>An-Nawawi (RA) said: The books of the Torah and Gospel are among the things that it is prohibited to seek benefit therein, because they changed and altered them.

>>33883

you literally just admitted that they were close to the truth but were changed and made false. this is exactly what was said. why are you arguing for me?

>>33901

Answer:

Firstly, you could be referring to anyone. Only one translation has translated it similar to that the one in question:

The Holy Qur'an 10:94 – Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan

So if you (O Muhammad SAW) are in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto you, (i.e. that your name is written in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) then ask those who are reading the Book (the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) before you. Verily, the truth has come to you from your Lord. So be not of those who doubt (it).

It is interesting that they interpreted as such. Although the “you” can be referring to anyone. Anyways, let’s look at it in context:

The Holy Qur'an 10:90-94 – Translation by Yusuf Ali

We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to God in Islam)."

(It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!

"This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"

We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them, that they fell into schisms. Verily God will judge between them as to the schisms amongst them, on the Day of Judgment.

If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.

>>33904

>then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee:

>>33892

kindly leave. this thread is dead because of your unislamic abuse. the new one is elsewhere and i have requested this to be locked/deleted because of the trolls accusing takfir and calling me a liar without evidence while i know what i experienced.

may the curse of Allah be upon the liar, may the curse of Allah be upon the liar, may the curse of Allah be upon the liar. I lied none in my relation of this. yet you lie when you abuse me calling me a liar. you lied numerous times. you exhibit bad understanding of the bible amongst other things. you are a nuisance and troll and you have been asked kindly to stop trolling. bye.

>>33900

>you are an abusive liar

I said "If you want." I didn't say "You want."

You keep going off on a tangent about the Bible being close to the truth. Lets stay on the subject of this thread.

You claim to have seen something. There is no reason to talk about what you claim to have seen, to investigate it, or to try to have the same experience again. I will say this again, so that maybe you will try to understand.

You claim to have seen something. There is no reason to talk about what you claim to have seen, to investigate it, or to try to have the same experience again. Be happy if you are Muslim, since you have accepted the truth.

>>33909

>>33909

>questioning my shahadah

>regurgitating what I already said about the point of accepting the experience is that I am Muslim and accepted the truth and did so because of an experience I had.

Yet you abuse and harass me. I am censored. I’m done with this board.

My other thread was also deleted.

“Masjid” uh huh.

>>33909

>you keep going off on a tangent about the Bible

No. That’s you.

And you disregard my rebuttals to your claim as a cop out.

>>33911

>My other thread was also deleted.

Your other thread was deleted because it was an exact copy of this one, which you made because you don't like it when people disagree with you. If you can't handle people disagreeing with your, rather crazy, claims of being a Muhaddath, then maybe you should seek validation elsewhere. I've resisted deleting this thread, even though it borders on heresy, because I figured by now that you'd realize that claiming to be a prophet or a saint isn't going to work around here; but you're going to continue clinging to this insane idea. I have bumplocked it, but if you can't handle people's incredulity at your claims, that isn't my problem.

>>33911

>questioning my shahadah

You are the one claiming I am saying things that I am not. I do think you are a liar. That is different from calling you a liar, I am stating what I believe. That is not a slander nor is it an accusation. Also I used the word “IF” because that way it covers all possibilities. Saying “IF” is not a slander or an accusation.

Notice that I am the only one that is giving you advice on what you should do IF what you say is true. I am accepting the possibility that what you are saying might be true, since I can’t know for certain. That is why I keep saying “IF” and giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You are ignoring my advice, and only responding to side issues. You would think that if someone really had such an experience they would be open to new opinions of what that experience might have been and what they should do, instead of getting angry and copy pasting several Quran verses and hadith to argue about other things. That is why I find what you are saying to be very questionable, among other things.