9f8cfb No.32192
Is it because democrats support immigration and seem supportive of minorities? There is a meme that "Islam will save the west" but I wonder if it is "The west will dilute Islam." I am not Muslim. This post is not meant to be antagonistic. I'm here to learn.
I think it's likely that Islam will become the dominant religion in the west. I'm not fighting against it. The west is the most descendant culture that's ever existed in the history of the world, and I'm glad to see that go.
My only concern is that I want the beautiful, great art of the Renaissance to be respected and preserved on its artistic merits. I don't care if a modern, low-quality church is turned into a mosque. It might be an improvement if the renovation is done well. I would want the same for the best examples of Muslim art if Christian cultures were overtaking Islamic countries.
It seems strange to me that Muslims support the pro-feminist, pro-transgender, pro-abortion, pro-hedonism of the democrats. In Minnesota, a Muslim woman was elected. Why would a Muslim *woman* run for office? This suggests Islam will be poisoned by the west. I've read about American men who travel abroad to find women who are more feminine than American ones, and that it is becoming more difficult as the world becomes more westernized. I've also read that if you plan to bring one of these women to America, she will likely become poisoned by the American culture by her new American friends, social media, entertainment, etc.
Can Islam defeat the decadence of the west, or will the decadence transform Islam into a new left-wing religion?
____________________________
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9f8cfb No.32193
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75f3fb No.32194
>>32192
We make a choice, same as everyone else. You have 2 men standing before you. One says, "I hate you and fear you and I will teach everyone that you are a dangerous and detestable person - if you even are a person - who should be shunned, removed, and destroyed" while the other man says, "I'm fine with how you live and how you pray. We should learn to get along and make this a better world."
Which one would you support? Well, I can tell you with absolute certainty that it ain't the Republicans reaching out their hand in friendship …
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fabfb9 No.32195
>>32192
>Why would a Muslim *woman* run for office?
In Islam, women can hold public office. We're not Christians. We don't fear women.
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9f8cfb No.32196
That's not the real version of Islam. That's the GRIDS westernized version, which I see you have already become infected with.
You're a feminist if you let women lead you. Your society will fall. You aren't a man.
>>32194
The thing is, they aren't really your friend. They want to neuter you without you realizing.
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683a90 No.32198
Because they've been duped into thinking their vote matters.
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75f3fb No.32199
>>32196
>That's not the real version of Islam.
>You aren't a man.
>They want to neuter you without you realizing. (implying we're blind and/or stupid)
Yet …
>>32192
>not meant to be antagonistic. I'm here to learn.
Which is it? Are you here to tell us how to live and how our religion is supposed to be and to call us blind and stupid, or are you here to learn why we do what we do? You can't have both and one gets you a permaban. Choose wisely.
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4ccbd6 No.32201
>>32192
>I am not Muslim.
>>32196
>That's not the real version of Islam.
I love it when non-Muslims try to tell us what real Islam is.
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f493a5 No.32203
>>32192
The west is diluting Islam, and will never allow shariah to take hold. Muslims should not even vote considering it is polytheism, since only God can make laws.
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75f3fb No.32204
>>32203
>only God can make laws
True, though we are still subject to the laws of the land in which we live. In the US, through our vote and our voice, we have the ability to shape existing laws. The choice we are given at this point is whether we want a Congress that will ensure the laws of the land allow us to continue being Muslim or do we want a Congress that will label us, put us on lists, and strip us of our basic freedoms because of how we pray. We need to vote, we need to elect Muslim leaders. God created the world and charged us with its care. We cannot ignore that commission simply because we're in a secular nation.
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ed76f1 No.32205
>>32192
Muslims used to predominantly vote Republican, until after 9/11 and American right-wing politics started their hate mongering campaign. People overwhelmingly react emotionally, instead of rationally when voting. So even if Democrats support more degeneracy and economic stupidity, they don’t say as many bad things about Muslims and this gets them votes.
I am a white Muslim living in a rural area of the US. I vote republican because my family owns their own business and I consider my family’s economic and business concerns first when voting. When a Muslim is presented with a choice between two evils, they are supposed to choose the lesser of the two evils. Voting Republican is a short-term solution, because when the economy finally returns to a recession, the stupid masses will almost certainly elect a socialist president that will enact policies that will be disastrous. We could be living in the final years of Ron Paul’s second term as president right now, but Ron Paul doesn’t say provocative nonsense crap constantly, like Trump does. Apparently talking out of your ass is more appealing to voters than talking about rational policies.
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87436c No.32209
Im also a white muslim and I own muslimsfortrump2020.com but had no time to maintain it.
I have egyptian friends that also support Trump. Trump is the friend of sunnis ABROAD, of course he deserves our support. Some muslims are upset that he doesnt come to a mosque… well Obummer the MURTAD didnt come to a US mosque until his last week of office.
My mosque was visited by republican and dem congress candidates this year. Sadly many muslims walked out on the republican for emotional reasons.
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87436c No.32213
>>32209
And btw
We have no obligation to safeguard the morals of a people that hate Islam. So I can sympathize with Muslims that vote dem, most are still conservative in their households. And republicans are just about as degenerate as dems on moral issues. Isnt John Boehner a big pot kingpin now?
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f493a5 No.32214
>>32204
This secular nation is founded on the principle that the legislation is to be decided by men. And they give a vote to every citizen, meaning if you vote you accept to give them your ability to choose a person to legislate for you and make new laws, many of which contradict the laws of God. They are in fact what is called taghut, and we are ordered to reject them.
Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. (4:60)
We must judge by the book of Allah (swt):
Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you. And do not be for the deceitful an advocate. (4:105)
But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission. (4:65)
And judge, [O Muúammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away – then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient. (5:49)
Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith]. (5:50)
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f493a5 No.32215
>>32205
My brother, the greatest of evils is shirk, equating with Allah (swt), that is making the american legislators equal in right to Allah (swt). That is what voting is.
>>32209
Trump has killed countless muslims. Supporting him is ridda.
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ed76f1 No.32216
>>32215
There isn’t that much of a difference between the 2 American political parties. Whether it be a democrat, or a republican, the foreign policy and almost all major domestic policies are the same. That being said, the subtle changes with politicians have effects on people’s lives. If given the choice between 2 evils, a Muslim is supposed to choose the lesser of 2 evils.
It is a reasonable argument to suggest that voting is a waste of paper, and it would be better to prevent killing trees than to vote, but calling it shirk is a stretch. Every time you buy something you are using notes that have no intrinsic value, they are debt certificates connected to charging interest. Being able to live your life without using debt based money would be virtually impossible. All you can do is to avoid the interest of banking and other forms of usury. If you tried to live out in the wilderness without paying taxes or using money, you wouldn’t be involved in riba in any way, but doing that would be illegal and you would be put into jail if you were caught. Being in jail, without the power to support a family and give charity is the greater evil, which means that it is better to participate in the economic system.
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ed76f1 No.32217
>>32216
Many of the ballot measures that are voted on involve taxes. You are presented with 3 options.
Do you want to give the government more of your money for [X] reason?
[ ] YES
[ ] NO
[ ] I won’t vote because this is shirk
If the results for this vote are 1001 Yes votes and 1000 No votes, you give the government more of your money. The lesser evil in this case is to vote No, I don’t want to give the government more of my money. Voting for candidates that do not want to enact laws that force people to buy health insurance, make healthcare costs soar, and cause businesses and individuals to lose all their savings is also the lesser evil.
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683a90 No.32218
>>32215
>Trump has killed countless muslims. Supporting him is ridda.
Yes but he is also tough on China.
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75f3fb No.32220
>>32218
His being tough on China comes at the expense of US industry. His pointless trade war is nothing more than saber rattling nonsense. Imposing tariffs is meaningless to China. They don't pay the tariffs … WE do.
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ed76f1 No.32221
>>32218
If Hillary was president, there would be no way that the house and the senate controlled by republicans would have passed the ridiculous budget that they passed with Trump as president. Cutting taxes and running a deficit over a trillion dollars is ridiculously crazy. And this whole time Trump keeps saying “the economy is great! Were making lots of jobs!.”
During the debates, Trump pointed out that the economy was in a large bubble that is going to burst. Now that he is president and the bubble has increased in size by an order of magnitude, everything is great. The economy is like a car that is barreling down a hill at 80 miles an hour. Instead of politicians doing the responsible thing and running the car into the ditch (which has consequences but it far better in the long run) We are going to keep going down the hill until we hit a wall going 130 miles per hour.
When the bubble does burst, Trump will be blamed. The news media has already convinced over half the country that Trump is working with the Russians even though relations with Russia are the worst they have been in decades.
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683a90 No.32222
>>32220
>His being tough on China comes at the expense of US industry
That's fine, it means Mexico gets more labour.
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f493a5 No.32224
>>32216
The difference is, riba isn't kufr, but a sin, and it's not blamed on you if you have no choice.
But voting a legislator is a choice and it is shirk, it means you associate with him, and if he decides to make 1 law that benefits you and 99 laws that oppose Allah (swt), then he is a taghut.
We both agree they are kuffar, and taghut, since they don't rule by which Allah (swt) has revealed, that makes them the bigger evil. Their act which by they make themselves equal to Allah (swt), by saying, "final authority is to the people", is clear polytheism. It's not just my opinion, but many scholars who are more learned than us. I hope you take heed of my argument.
>>32217
>Many of the ballot measures that are voted on involve taxes. You are presented with 3 options.
Single issue votes don't exist, it's a package deal with the chosen candidate. He might reduce taxes, which is a lesser evil, but he will also introduce things like lgbt rights or alcohol age laws, may Allah destroy them.
If the candidate has any points that oppose Islam, then his personal policies become the greater evil, his taghut ideology. Any worldly loses do not matter at that point, since Allah (swt) has more rights, the rights of Allah (swt) always trump your rights.
>>32218
That dosent matter, in the quran and hadith we know kuffar will fight eachother, but we don't support either side. Trump is a taghut, murderer and arrogant greedy man. He is an open enemy of Islam. Supporting him or any candidate is kufr.
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766dc9 No.32225
>>32220
Whatever he is doing is working for the economy, stop talking nonsense just because the media tells you to hate Trump.
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75f3fb No.32233
>>32225
>working for the economy
Sure … if you're wealthy and/or a major corporation, it's doing great!
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ed76f1 No.32237
>>32224
>Single issue votes don't exist
The picture is an example of some of the single issues you can vote on. But when you vote you have to fill in the whole ballot for it to count. You can write in your own candidate instead of selecting one of the ones listed, even though the name you write in would almost never win, and the person you write in doesn’t even need to exist.
I understand where you are coming from, but when you are given a choice to pick between different conditions that you are going to live under, I think you should choose the best option, instead of not choosing. It is a difference of opinion between scholars, because the concept of democracy was pretty much unheard of during the time of the Prophet PBUH. There was the precent of Greece, but that wasn’t widely implemented.
It isn’t like there is an Islamic option to choose from, so you aren’t picking between secular and Islamic. I believe it was in the UK where a community of Muslims was given the option of having their own Sharia courts to deal with domestic issues such as marriage, divorce, child custody, inheritance, and the like and the majority of the Muslims themselves refused. They would rather like under the secular laws.
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ed76f1 No.32238
>>32225
The economy appears do be doing well because of the artificially low interest rates and companies using their profits to buy back their own stock, which raises the stock prices. Trumps actions have little if nothing to do with it.
The world is in hundreds of trillions of dollars in debt. The economy appears to be doing well now, but that is not going to last forever. The current model of fractional reserve banking was never designed to last indefinitely. Once the dollar loses its status as the world reserve currency, it will lose most of its value.
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f493a5 No.32266
>>32237
Interesting.. I never saw these types of propositions, I suppose less taxes to a taghut government also means less funding for the war machine. I get where you're coming from, but, imo I would still stay away from it. Like if I was offered food with 1% chance of it being poisonous, I would not eat it. That's just for my bodily safety. What about our akhira and the final eternal state of our souls? What if there's 1% chance it's shirk, I'm staying far away for sure. You should too akhi.
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f493a5 No.32267
>>32225
There's media that is also pro trump(Fox). If you are muslim american, you should hate trump and the american system. Since it is essentially, a chabad lubavitch colony, which is actively against Islam, and he even said it from his own mouth and actions by wiping out muslim cities.
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ed76f1 No.32268
>>32266
Some of the positions you are voting people into do not involve making laws, they are doing a job, like being a clerk or sheriff for a local government. If you want to avoid voting for any type of lawmaker, you can write in any name, since for your ballot to count it has to be filled out completely.
A problem we have where I live is that people that work for the local government are incompetent. The closest town to where I live has a little under 600 people. The people that were placed in charge of operating the ambulance are not able to do their job. Now, people know that if they need medical help they can’t call the ambulance and if they want to get to the hospital they need to find other means of transportation. I know of at least one person that has died because the ambulance got lost on the way to get them.
Pic related is usually what the front part of the ballot looks like. The back part has the single issue votes.
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ed76f1 No.32269
>>32268
I forgot to fill out the Governor space but you can get the idea
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31eeaa No.33142
>>32192
VOTING IS KUFR not everyone who votes is a kafir though
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75f3fb No.33144
>>32290
>>33142
Voting, in many cases, merely means choosing or selecting. Participation in a kufr system does not necessarily mean participation in kufr itself. It depends on the nature of such participation. Abstention from voting sometimes causes more harm than voting itself. Abstinence from voting will not realistically lead to change and any sane person would say that abstaining from selecting the least evil option would only leave room for the more evil option to win.
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a97aa4 No.33145
>>33144
The lesser of the evil option in this case is not voting and this is voting in a democracy not in a any system
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75f3fb No.33146
>>33145
Abstaining from voting doesn't change anything nor does it help anything. Let's say there are 2 candidates and 10 people voting. Candidate A says if elected, he'll kill all Muslims; while Candidate B says he'll allow Muslims religious freedom. You could very well be the deciding vote in making sure B gets elected. If you abstain, you're practically guaranteeing A gets elected and Muslims will be killed. If you live in a democracy and you don't vote, you're letting other people make decisions on your behalf.
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f493a5 No.33149
>>33144
>>33146
If there is a threat of death then it falls into ikrah and you can vote to survive or also fight to the death. But in the general case, voting is shirk even if you do it for worldly benefits, no benefit is greater than preserving your tawheed.
Democracy is based on the majority will of the people and the absolute authority to mankind.
But the quran says majority isn't guided:
"And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying." [6:116]
And that authority to legislate is only for Allah (swt):
“The Hukm (Legislating, Commands, Judgment) is for none but Allah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him, that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not.” [12:40]
“Have you seen those (hypocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for legislation to the Taghut while they have been ordered to reject them. But Shaytan wishes to lead them far astray.” [4:60]
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f493a5 No.33290
Interesting hadith
The hadeeth mentioned was narrated by Imaam Ahmad in his Musnad, al-Tabaraani in al-Mu’jam al-Kabeer, and Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh, with a jayyid isnaad from Abu Umaamah al-Baahili (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said:
“The bonds of Islam will be undone one by one. Each time one bond is undone, the people will move to the next one (and adhere to that). The first bond to be undone will be ruling (al-hukm) and the last one will be prayer (al-salaah).”
The meaning of this hadeeth is apparent, which is that the more Islam becomes “strange”, the more people will go against its teachings and will undo its bonds, which is a reference to its obligations and commandments. As the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Islam began as a stranger and will go back to being a stranger as it started, so give glad tidings to the strangers.” (Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh).
The meaning of the phrase “the first bond to be undone will be ruling (al-hukm)” is apparent; it refers to the failure to rule according to the sharee’ah of Allaah. This is what is happening today in most of the so-called Muslim countries. It is known that what is obligatory upon all is to rule according to the sharee’ah of Allaah in all things, and to beware of ruling according to laws and customs which go against the sharee’ah
With regard to the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “and the last one will be prayer (al-salaah)”, this refers to large numbers of people who do not pray and who are negligent with regard to salaah. This is what is happening today in many Muslim countries. We ask Allaah to put the Muslims’ affairs right and to help them to adhere strongly to His religion and to be steadfast.
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/8034/the-meaning-of-the-bonds-of-islam-will-be-undone-one-by-one
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f616af No.44713
Sharia Only. No support for taghut
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af9ec5 No.44792
This thing with the mask and sanitizers are going on for too long. I wish everything just go back to normal when stuff were simpler. Much of my daily routines have to be reconsidered because of stupid regulations.
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707e73 No.44793
>>44792
This is normal. We've been covering our faces and washing our hands 5 times a day for centuries.
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00560a No.44830
>>32192
I have a lot of family members and friends living in France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and other European countries and sometimes I visit them and the Muslims there don't even have the right to vote neither do.
What are you talking about.
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3c2282 No.45137
>>32192
Ofc this is why. To new immigrants/uninformed who aren't going to learn politics. It's literally about "who's gonna give me more stuff" and the other poster was right.
Muslims are inherently republican. The system of islam doesn't even support lefty stances like the trans, lgbt, etc etc.
BUT in a stroke of either short-sightedness or unwillingness. Muslims unanimously agree that white christian nationalists will never be on their side.
This was an area I was curious about too - and literally with 30 mins of readings. They don't even leave room for interpretation - you read some evangelical preachers - we are straight "the enemy"
Who the eff ever wants to support a group that hates you? What kinda victim complex is that?
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707e73 No.45138
>>45137
Believers! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies. They are the allies of each other. And among you he who takes them for allies, shall be regarded as one of them. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers. [5:51]
>The system of islam doesn't even support lefty stances
Yes it does. Islam is very socialist, very globalist, and very, very progressive.
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e110c9 No.45139
>>45137
>Muslims are inherently republican. The system of islam doesn't even support lefty stances like the trans, lgbt, etc etc.
Republicans believe in haram policies, too.
>BUT in a stroke of either short-sightedness or unwillingness. Muslims unanimously agree that white christian nationalists will never be on their side.
It were the racist Christians who antagonized the Muslims in America first, not the other way around. Had they not dog-whistled to the racists and, you know, start the War of Terror, the GOP may have accumulated ME/NA/Desi Muslims as a constituency. Too bad Bush and Dick were in charge!
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3c2282 No.45140
>>45138
Yeah but whats the alternative? Taking transvestites, sex addicts, atheists, etc as your allies?
I mean - like any religion it can be used to reinforce any stance the user sees fit. But I'm referring to the general mindset of male uneducated muslims - not necessarily what the books support or doesn't support.
That mindset that many arrive with - is inherent on the republican side.
>>45139
>Republicans believe in haram policies, too.
True - but then we get back to the lesser of two evils business. Which I still think is the democrats just due to the sheer hatred and smear campaigns of the repubs.
I totally agree with this - the second sentence was poorly worded, shortsightedness on the republicans parts , not the muslims.
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707e73 No.45141
>>45140
>Yeah but whats the alternative?
Voting Democrat doesn't make you an ally to atheists. As for the others, well, Islam is fine with Trans - some Muslim countries even pay for gender affirming surgery and hormone treatments - and a sex addict is an addict. Addiction is a disease that should be treated and the afflicted should be afforded dignity and humanity.
>the general mindset of male uneducated muslims
That's the thing about Islam. We don't cater to the needs of our uneducated brothers. We educate them!
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