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/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

أَشْهَدُ أَنْ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا ٱللَّٰهُ وَأَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا رَسُولُ ٱللَّٰهِ
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Goodbye everyone!

File: b8ee523bb4d3b83⋯.jpg (100.25 KB,640x640,1:1,photo1985769608546723754.jpg)

422655 No.27760

This is a Muslim Group for Muslims and non-muslims who are interested in learning (more) about Islam. To make the group a pleasant place for our members we have made some rules. Please read them first upon joining, they are pinned as an image.

We hope to welcome you soon. : )

In Telegram search for @MuslimGroup

Link: https://t.me/joinchat/Hw7wMAgBassjUJ5m9jjVxQ

____________________________
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e27213 No.27841

I'm in in a while. I'm also quite surprised that this board is so inactive.

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01e76e No.27842

>>27841

It would be a lot more active if we let people troll the board.

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0d4ca6 No.32931

hmm maybe this could be our /islam/ telegram

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a14262 No.32932

>>27841

I thought it is always inactive? Unless there's a new topic/thread popping up.

>>32931

Wait for BO's sanction? Sure, we can join but would it be /islam/?

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25a459 No.32939

>>32931

>>32932

I approve of its use as our telegram so long as the creator/owner sticks with the rules of /islam/. For example: If it becomes a Sunni-only echo chamber, then it is not /islam/. They will also be responsible for maintaining current invites (the one in OP has expired).

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a14262 No.32941

>>32939

What he said.

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819070 No.37431

is the group still up?

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c31b56 No.37434

>necrobumping

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819070 No.37436

>>37434

I'm serious though. The board is too slow anyway.

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c31b56 No.37442

>>37436

No it's not up.

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6a738c No.37484

Can we make one?

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25a459 No.37487

>>37484

Yes, but I won't do it. If you want to make one, go ahead. See: >>32939

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de9f93 No.40146

isn't that the group where men and women are freely mixing?

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965d16 No.40147

>>40146

Yeah, God forbid men and women actually talk to each other and get to know each other. I mean, what are people thinking?! Babies happen by Elven magic and are plucked from trees! Men and women were NEVER meant to get together! How horrifying!

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de9f93 No.40148

File: 3e7d45cda5e82e1⋯.jpg (11.29 KB,480x480,1:1,1573546764323.jpg)

>>40147

>Yeah, God forbid men and women actually talk to each other and get to know each other. I mean, what are people thinking?! Babies happen by Elven magic and are plucked from trees! Men and women were NEVER meant to get together! How horrifying!

im sure you know full well the rulings in Islam when it comes to interactions between men and women. Both genders are ordered to lower their gaze and commanded to stay away from that which can lead to haram, and when interacting with each other they should do it for necessary reasons, modestly and within the Islamic boundaries

that telegram group has men and women openly "bantering" with each other, and they're obviously not going to be lowering their gazes there. it's best to keep such groups gender segregated to avoid any feelings of desire from taking place, which may lead to sin (which it does on many occasions online)

Allah knows best

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965d16 No.40150

>>40148

I'm fully aware that wahabbi salafi idiots think men and women should never meet each other until it's baby time; but Islam - and Qur'an - puts men and women together. Talking to each other and sharing time together and getting to know each other is not the same as "grabbing and f*cking each other as soon as eyes meet!"

You Orthodox need to calm down or no Muslim babies will ever be born. A woman can talk to a man without her father present. Prove me wrong.

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de9f93 No.40153

File: 889784ae7a9f70f⋯.jpg (32.63 KB,600x500,6:5,1208936_10153244086795608_….jpg)

>>40150

Lemme put this as clearly as possible.

1) in Quran 24:30-31 it clearly states for both genders to lower their gaze:

>"Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do.

>And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed"

According to Abu Daud:

>"It is not lawful for a man to cast a full gaze at the other women except at his own wife or the mahram women of his family. The chance look is pardonable but not the second look which one casts when one feels the lure of the object. The Prophet (peace be upon him) has termed such gazing and glancing as wickedness of the eyes. He has said that man commits adultery with all his sensory organs. The evil look at the other woman is the adultery of the eyes; lustful talk is the adultery of the tongue; relishing the other woman’s voice is adultery of the ears; and touching her body with the hand or walking for an unlawful purpose is adultery of the hands and feet. After these preliminaries the sexual organs either bring the act of adultery to completion or leave it incomplete"

here it shows that men clearly need to lower their gaze, as it can clearly lead to sin.

Furthermore, there is a hadith where the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) commanded Ali:

>"O Ali, do not cast a second look after the first look. The first look is pardonable but not the second one"

If men and women are freely mixing with each other, then they'll being doing the opposite of what I've mentioned so far. But let's continue.

When reading 24:31 it clearly states that women also need to lower their gaze, whilst according to the hadith this command is a little more different for women as they aren't allowed to sit face to face with men, but are allowed to look if they are passing by or if they're watching a performance (from a distance).

(1)

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de9f93 No.40154

>>40150

>>40153

On top of this, it is forbidden for men to see a women in privacy or without her mahram relatives, which is stated by the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him):

>"Do not visit the women whose husbands are away from home, because Satan circulates in one of you like blood" (tirmizi)

(a mehram is basically anyone whom it is permanently forbidden to marry because of blood ties, marriage ties or breastfeeding, so for example: your mum)

To top that up, there is a tradition from Jabir where the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) states:

>"Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should never visit a woman when alone unless she has a mahram relative also present, because the third one would be Satan" (Ahmad)

Furthermore:

>“When a man and woman are alone together, Satan is the third.” [Tirmidhi]

I don't think it gets any more clear, but let's continue.

There is a hadith where the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) states:

>"No man should visit the other woman when she is alone unless she has a mahram also present, and no woman should travel alone unless accompanied by a mahram" (Bukhari)

The definition of a mehram is basically

Its very clear that if a man wants to communicate with a women, there has to be a mehram present.

Let's go further.

There was an incident where men and women were walking side by side in a crowd, of which then the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) says to the women:

>"It is not proper for you to walk in the middle of the road; walk on the sides" of which then the women started to walk along the walls (Abu Daud).

This backs it up further that genders freely mixing is not allowed.

To top this all up even further, according to Bukhari and Muslim, the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) states:

>“Do not go near [non-Mahram] women.” A person inquired: “What about in-laws?” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) responded, “The in-laws are death.”

(2)

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de9f93 No.40155

>>40154

>>40153

>>40150

It is generally agreed that opposite genders shouldn't be interacting with each other, unless there is a necessity, and such interaction should be purposeful and professional. If interaction with non-mehrams are done needlessly (such as for fun, enjoyment, making friends, so on) then it is considered zina of tongue and ears as backed up by the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him):

>“The son of Adam’s share of zina has been decreed for him, which he will inevitably get. The zina of the eyes is looking, the zina of the ears is listening, the zina of the tongue is speaking, the zina of the hands is touching, and the zina of the foot is walking. The heart longs and wishes, and the private part confirms that or denies it.” (muslim)

To be staring at non-mehram women is zina of eyes.

Doesn't get anymore clear than that.

Allah knows best

(3)

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de9f93 No.40156

>>40150

>>40153

>>40154

>>40155

So to conclude

>Talking to each other and sharing time together and getting to know each other

Should only be done if there is an intention of marriage, and if there is a mehram present and if it is all done within Islamic boundaries

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8c28c3 No.40342

File: 179368060ebb893⋯.png (636.22 KB,972x887,972:887,IMG_20200110_133234.png)

>>40157

>Except you've only talked about a man and a woman being alone together.

No i haven't, and I'll explain why

>That's not applicable to the telegram chats. According to Imam Malik a wife can for example sit and dine together with her husband and his male friends. Do they not talk with each other then?

you've already contradicted yourself lmao. you mentioned how she's with her HUSBAND in front of those male friends. she's not allowed to be at front of them WITHOUT her HUSBAND because her husband is her mehram. on telegram you don't see women with their husbands now, do you?

and also, i suggest you actually quote imam malik and see how he backs up his quote with the quran and hadith. did he even mention the etiquette of how the wife should be at front of them? you can't freely socialise between genders in islam.

now we got that out of the way:

1) quran 24:30-31 clearly states that both genders are to lower their gaze. you are NOT lowering your gaze in online mixed group.

2) this is further backed up with the hadith where the prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) turned Ali's (may Allah be pleased with him) head away when he had his gaze set on a women. in have your gaze SET in online groups, especially seeing how much people openly show their face with filters and makeup in these groups

3) the prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) enforced gender separation. why would this be necessary if they can apparently freely mix now?

>It is not proper for you to walk in the middle of the road; walk on the sides" of which then the women started to walk along the walls (Abu Daud).

4) this verse:

"Do not go near [non-Mahram] women.” A person inquired: “What about in-laws?” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) responded, “The in-laws are death.”

lemme highlight "DO NOT GO NEAR [NON-MEHRAM] WOMEN. in mixed online groups you are doing the OPPOSITE. in-laws cant even freely mix, yet you think strangers are allowed?

5)if genders freely mixing isn't permissible irl, then it wouldn't be permissible online. just because they can't physically be there with each other doesn't stop them looking and communicating and listening to each other. so the verses discouraging genders freely mixing around would apply to online groups. and both irl and online, zina of the eyes, ears and tongue can still occur (and may even lead onto irl as it has many times)

6) Imam Abu Dawud and Imam an-Nasai relate from Sayyidatuna Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) that she says: “A women extended her hand from behind a curtain to hand a piece of paper to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). The Messenger of Allah pulled his hands back and said: “I don't know if this is a mans hand or a women's hand.” Aisha said that it was a women's hand.

the Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon) himself was involved in such gender separation, and if there was no need for such gender separation then there would be no need for him to do what he did in this hadith. on top of that he didn't correct Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her), so we can infer that gender mixing is generally discouraged

7) regarding scholarly consensus and classical scholars, all this is addressed in the following links:

>https://islamqa.info/en/answers/59873/she-is-confused-about-the-answer-to-a-question-concerning-women-talking-to-men

>https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1497/manners-when-talking-to-women

>https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/113996

may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ) guide us

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965d16 No.40343

>>40342

This is sadly misinterpreted, misogynist, incel, MGToW propaganda at its finest. I'd suggest you find a wife, but then you'll cry that you can't because "women are teh debil!" I also pray you never have a daughter because you'll believe you can't even hug her.

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f86e57 No.40610

so no telegram?

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965d16 No.40611

>>40610

See: >>40098

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