770929 No.27541
Guenon was a french Catholic who developed a philosophy of traditionalism (one tradition cannot contain the universal as this itself is beyond words but many traditions can express the universal). He thought Catholicism's traditionalism had become exhausted and moved to Egypt and became a Sufi, seeing as how Islam still preserved it's traditionalist nature. It's more complicated than that but there you go.
____________________________
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34a890 No.27542
>>27541
Well, he brought many people to Islam, so that's a good thing; but he was also a Mason and syncretised Islam with Hindu ritual beliefs. Interesting fellow, but he is not someone to be admired or aspired to be like.
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770929 No.27543
>>27542
>but he was also a Mason
Really? I'm almost sure he was anti-Mason and wrote against them and other weird societies.
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4be61a No.27545
There's actually already a thread about tbis in the catalog, if I'm not mistaken. Just sayin'.
And to answer your question, OP, if it wasn't for Guenon I wouldn't have become a Muslim. He started my search for Truth a couple years back, and it has taken me to Islam. Alhamdulillah.
>>27542
He had a very different conception of Masonry than most masons. I don't know the details, but he wasn't a typical mason. He started his own lodge but it didn't really take off.
>>27542
>syncretised Islam with Hindu ritual beliefs.
He was against syncretism, and according to everyone who knew him in Cairo he was completely orthodox in his practice of Islam. He did believe that Advaita Vedanta and Islam (especially Sufi teachings) were identical in their metaphysical teachings.
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204fd5 No.27546
>>27545
>He was against syncretism
>He did believe that Advaita Vedanta and Islam were identical
Pick one.
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972ba0 No.27547
>>27542
>; but he was also a Mason and syncretised Islam with Hindu ritual beliefs.
except this is false. If he was ever mason in his early years he gave it up later on. He taught against syncretism specifically and didn't practice "hindu rituals".
>>27546
>>He did believe that Advaita Vedanta and Islam were identical
in a very precise esoteric sense, not in an exoteric sense where mixing rituals and practices would ever be possible.
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34a890 No.27548
>>27547
>esoteric
>Islam
Nope.
gb2 >>>/fringe/
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70b4af No.27572
>>27548
>doesn't understand what esoteric means
try >>>/brainlet/
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34a890 No.27573
>>27572
Esoteric - intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
Nothing about Islam is esoteric.
http://www.arabnews.com/islam-perspective/news/726926
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70b4af No.27614
>>27573
>dictionary.com for philosophic concepts
smh
>likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
so the scholars fit this definition too.
but it still misses the point.
So best for you to remain silent on matters you don't understand, like Guenon.
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34a890 No.27623
>>27614
You know there's a reason dictionaries exist, right? It's so people can't run around making up their own definitions for words. What do YOU think "esoteric" means?
>matters you don't understand
Oh, I understand Guenon. I've known 1,000 people just like him, floating through life from religion to religion in a desperate search for a deeper meaning. Self-proclaimed philosophers who don't take the time to study a single thing, but rather try to find a way to obtain salvation by cherry picking the things they like from every religion and cobbling it together. They're entertaining, but lose the forest because they're trying to pluck bark from each tree.
Qur'an itself says there's nothing hidden about Islam. No deeper meaning, no difficult concepts and it is accessible to all men.
Do not mix truth with falsehood and do not deliberately hide the truth [2:42]
Allah does not want to place you in difficulty [5:6]
We intend for you ease. [2:185]
You have been sent to make things easy and not to make them difficult. [Bukhari]
Trying to introduce some mystical/esoteric concepts into an already perfect religion, God's perfect religion, could be construed as blasphemy. Tread carefully.
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dae768 No.27627
>>27623
>dictionary.com
>for a technical term used by a philosopher in a very precise sense
kek
> What do YOU think "esoteric" means?
what matters is how Guenon uses the term. If you're going to critique him and his beliefs at least know what you're talking about.
>Qur'an itself says there's nothing hidden about Islam. No deeper meaning, no difficult concepts and it is accessible to all men.
Cool. And thats irrelevant and doesnt help you one bit since esoteric has nothing to do with "gnostic secret teachings for elites" or whatever you imagine it to be
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34a890 No.27633
>>27627
No, what matters is the actual definition of the word being used. "Esoteric" has a specific meaning in the English language. You don't get to change a word's definition just to suit your narrative. That's not how communication works. If Guenon has changed the definition of a word just to suit his narrative, then he's a bigger idiot that I thought.
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dae768 No.27652
>>27633
>you don't get to change
He didn't change anything. The word has more than one function and application. English words can have various meanings depending on context. Specially technical jargon. His usage was closer to this:
Noun
esoterism
The inward forms of faith and religion; transcendence, mystic experience, and internal realizations of the Divine.
as opposed to
Noun
exoterism
The outward forms that religion takes; the institutional aspects of faith and religion, such as rituals, moral precepts, and institutions.
—-
> If Guenon has changed the definition of a word just to suit his narrative, then he's a bigger idiot that I thought.
You're embarrassing yourself.
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e67f43 No.27706
>>27623
>Oh, I understand Guenon. I've known 1,000 people just like him, floating through life from religion to religion in a desperate search for a deeper meaning.
Except Guénon *wasn't* like that. He converted to Islam in 1911 and remained Muslim for the rest of life.
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ee824c No.28085
>>27706
There is no esoterism in Islam, it's a clear religion.
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6ccf56 No.28172
>>28085
>esoterism : The inward forms of faith and religion; transcendence, mystic experience, and internal realizations of the Divine.
>There is no esoterism in Islam, it's a clear religion.
So it's just empty gestures, formal behavior and abiding by rules, with no internal life or spiritual dimension? Doubtful. Try again sir.
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bddb4e No.28174
Guess some people here really take it personally when their own philosophical views are questioned…
Islam is Islam. Trying to find philosophical definitions that apply in general sense and then applying it to Islam is nothing sort of stupidity. You cannot call Islam capitalistic just because it has some aspects that would be close to some parts of capitalism. You cannot say Islam has communist values in it just because some of it's values seem like some that is found in the communist system. Likewise, trying to generalise and then comparing philosophical aspects of other religions or ideologies along with Islam, indirectly implies that the person believes that Islam is just like those other religions or idelogies.
When trying to make someone understand some aspects of Islam, it might be necessary. But directly claiming that that aspect is one of the main parts of Islam is misleading. It's not something related to Islam but rather it is something, some parts of which, can be used to refer to some part that is a part of Islam.
Before you start regurgitating philosophical views keep in mind that entertaining a theory or idea is not the same as accepting it completely. And insulting other people for not taking part in specific philosophical veiws that might lead to deviation(in excess) is idiocy.
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eed058 No.28177
>>27623
>Do not mix truth with falsehood and do not deliberately hide the truth [2:42]
then why do they hide the name of the god?
>Allah does not want to place you in difficulty [5:6]
then why place you on the earth?
>We intend for you ease. [2:185]
not exactly heroic
>You have been sent to make things easy and not to make them difficult. [Bukhari]
see above
havent convinced me lad
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a3e7c6 No.28180
>>28177
>then why do they hide the name of the god?
>they
>hide the name of the god
>then why place you on the earth?
>not exactly "heroic"
What are you exactly? Is there some sort of Geunonian religion like buddhism? Because I'm seeing a couple of pretty similar smug comments in this thread but they are from different posters with only 1/2 post each.
Anyways, we believe that all prophets were sent the same message of tawhid. So the concept of "no universal truth in one religion" doesn't apply to Islam. We worship God alone. The same one and only God of Adam(AS), of Ibrahim(AS), of Nuh(AS), of Musa(AS) of Isa(AS) and of Prophet Mohammad(SAWS).
" He it is Who has sent down to you the Book,
containing verses which are clear and precise —
and these are the essence of the Book — and
others are allegorical. Those whose hearts have
swerved from the truth pursue that part of it
which is allegorical, seeking to create dissension
and trying to give it an arbitrary meaning. None
save God knows its final meaning. Those who
are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We
believe in it; it is all from our Lord.” But only
those who are endowed with insight take heed. " (3:7)
You can take your pseudo-intellectual babbling and superiority complex back to leddit.
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becbee No.28184
>>28177
>havent convinced me lad
It isn't anyone's job here to convince you of anything. Read Qur'an and the Sunnah. If you reject those things, then you reject Islam. If you reject Islam, then you reject God.
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ee824c No.28193
>>28177
Are you criticizing the quran?
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92cefe No.28596
Instead of making a new thread: what do you guys think of Schuon? I read Sedgewick's book and if even half the things he says there are true that would put Schuon way outside the pale of Islam, yet people like Martin Lings, who tend to be highly regarded in the ummah, held Schuon in high esteem. Is Mark Sedgewick a reliable source? I've head he's actually a practicing Muslim? Is that true? Has anyone read Schuon's "Understanding Islam" and what did you think of it?
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39f1fd No.28666
What are /islam/'s thoughts on the Study Qur'an by Seyyed Hosein Nasr? Is it legit or is it pozzed Perennialist trash?
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92cefe No.28670
>>28666
I have an epub of it, and I've glanced at it here and there, haven't read it thoroughly yet, but it seems to be mostly fine, in fact, the commentary seems really good compared to other English language Quran interpretations. The Perennialist stuff is probably scattered throughout, and as long as you're aware of it, should be fine. My main complaint is the absence of Arabic for a Quran purporting to be a "Study Quran".
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9719de No.28677
>>28193
Unrelated to the other poster but, can the Qur'an even be criticized? It's the Word of Allah (swt) after all.
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becbee No.28678
>>28677
It can be interpreted and interpretations can be criticized.
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ee824c No.28693
>>28677
Not in the way he did.
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5f6567 No.28736
>>28085
Esotericism ('ilm al-batin) has always been a recognized and accepted aspect of Sunni Islam. There are numerous hadith referring to the "inward" (batin) and "outward" (dhahir) aspects of Qur'anic verses. Read the Tafsir of Sahl al-Tustari.
Unless you're one of those "Qur'an-only" guys.
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ee824c No.28750
>>28736
Give me an example?
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e5c5ec No.29220
Smart guy with good intentions but moving to Egypt was a mistake and not traditional for someone like him.
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d61df4 No.29275
Great intellect for a heretic
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7fa852 No.42127
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7fa852 No.42128
Rene Guenon is aulia shaitan
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173046 No.42136
>>28736
>>28750
Would that be like the "alif laam meem" verses?
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8ef596 No.42155
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8ef596 No.42158
It was reported from ʿAlī that he stated, "[Those rooted in knowledge] are the ones whom knowledge has protected from plunging [into the interpretation of the Qurʾān] according to some whim (hawā) or with set arguments (ḥujaj maḍrūba) without [awareness of] the unseen [mysteries] (ghuyūb)."
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49a7a1 No.42299
Rene Guenon luciferian, not muslim
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e13d32 No.43211
>salafis seething about a great practicioner of tasawuf
always funny
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