▶ No.84956
>>84953 (OP)
It's gonna get bypassed almost immediately. Nothings going to stop pirates. As long as there's a way to view the image, it'll be easy to duplicate through a multitude of reasons. Even stuff like software is usually cracked within a month.
▶ No.84957>>84958
Furry porn DRM, this is where we are now. As if there aren't any real issues in the community.
▶ No.84958
>>84957
I'm guessing it's taking advantage of the fact that jpeg are going to end up having blockchain DRM from now on.
▶ No.84959>>84960
>>84953 (OP)
How is it protected? I'd like to test it out.
▶ No.84960>>84973 >>84989 >>84997 >>85018
>>84959
Sounds like they watermark images with the user IDs so if you distribute it, they know who did.
This isn't new, the music/movie industry did it and it never worked. It only takes a couple of independent files to wipe out the signature, and it is often possible to wipe it out with only one file.
I find it interesting furry greed is now on the level of the MPAA and RIAA in the 2000s.
▶ No.84973
>>84960
But muh independent creators! You are taking the food from their mouths! It is okay when is not a corp doing it!
▶ No.84989>>84991
>>84960
Who cares then. The most they could do before is DMCA takedowns and now on top of that they can track down the patreon acct the image originated from and ban it (not like other ones cant pop up in its place). This is furry art we're talking about, it's not like they have an army of lawyers to drag ppl to court for frivolities like sharing their copyright images.
▶ No.84991
>>84989
Copyright images that more often than not feature the IP of others.
▶ No.84997>>85427
Could the site be any more vague in describing its service? There's literally only 2 sentences.
But it sounds like it embeds an invisible watermark and the idea is you give each user a personality watermarked image so if they share the image you can catch them. In which case it's redundant. Photoshop already contains Digimarc which does this.
Mark my words, in 10 years sites like Patreon and FurAffinity will require login to view certain images because those images will be individually watermarked with your verified account name and your IP address.
>>84960
This is of course true and possible, but there's a several orders of magnitude difference in audience scale between Hollywood films and furry porn. We're having a hard enough time keeping Yiff.Party updated with artists' paywalled content even though it takes just 1 user to do so; it seems even less likely that many users would be willing to collaborate to anonymize individual furry porn images for the benefit of the non-paying public.
▶ No.85008>>85015 >>85306
I wonder what they gonna do when pirates are 'beaten' whit the ultimate DRM and still their 'products' don't show enough profit for muh hard work.
▶ No.85015>>85076
>>85008
They use all that DRM to punish customers they don't like.
No need to wonder, Blitzdrachin already does it.
▶ No.85018
>>84960
SexyFur tried this. Failed.
▶ No.85049>>86114
>>84953 (OP)
>Hard working
>Artists
I always find it funny how a purely frivolous "industry" thinks itself so important and valuable when it's entire existence depends on everything else running smoothly so people have time for it.
▶ No.85062
Lost all respect for Diives, rest are literal whos
▶ No.85076>>85107
▶ No.85107>>85188
>>85076
Blitz was salty becasue someone leaked stuff, got baited by a channel 4 thread posting upscaled versions of free stuff, as a result she decided to ban and doxx one of her paying customers, no refunds of course.
Patreon doesn't care, they barely cared about faf sending death threats and even then they let him back in.
▶ No.85115
At any rate it's a pretty easy self incriminating shortlist of all the shitty 'artists' who don't value the integrity of the people giving them money. And that the more they gather in one spot, the more incentive there is for someone to try and bust in to mass leak everything. Really hope someone gets on this sooner than later.
▶ No.85188>>85222
>>85107
That sounds pretty bad. How could she confuse an upscale with NO ids with a "protected" one anyways?
▶ No.85222>>85261
>>85188
>How could she confuse an upscale with NO ids with a "protected" one anyways?
Because why care?
Like most popfurs she is conditioned to have no impulse control and no self criticism capabilities because her mistakes are never punished, and since she suffered no negative consequences this time either she will continue not caring.
▶ No.85261>>86119
>>85222
I never realised it but she could also potentialy delete unwanted patrons this way. She has the ids so she could just "Leak" the stuff with marks from someone she dislikes and well...
▶ No.85306>>85311 >>86115
>>85008
They will sue the shit out of you. Bypassing DRM is potentially a felony in the US.
▶ No.85311
>>85306
you replied to the wrong post, probably
▶ No.85344
>buy furry porn image
>do heckerman things to remove any trace of you
>make torrent
▶ No.85427>>85452
>>84953 (OP)
I don't get it, what exactly DOES it do?
It says it's going to prevent piracy but this is a quote from the Patreon:
>control access to their exclusive content and maintain exclusivity through watermarking
So it's just going to add watermarks or does it somehow read watermarks then give access?
If it's the former then why would putting a watermark over a watermark work, the latter would be easy to bypass
>>84997
This idea makes a lot of sense, but even then, one of your patrons is leaking your content.
What the fuck are you going to do? Tell them to stop giving you money and shame them? They can also just make a patreon account with no association to any social media and then you can't even shame them.
Bar them from paying you?
Okay, they're out a month while they charge a Visa gift card for 10 bucks and keep doing it on another Patreon account
Bottom line I think this "service" is going to end up being more of a scam than anything.
The wording of what it is being intentionally vague, not to mention the numerous ways it'll get bypassed without much thought.
▶ No.85452
>>85427
It dumps watermarks on the image on download, so if it's leaked anywhere the leaker gets blocked and removed from giving them money, and adds a layer of seperation from patreon so it makes YP slightly less effective. That's literally its entire purpose. DRM at the expense of the hoops the people paying for it have to jump through to see watermarked encrusted content.
Patreon recently barred prepaid cards, which fucks over a fair number of legitimate users, so that's a workaround that needs yet another step.
In the end though, all of this is pointless. 1000's of hours in effort to stop it is utterly useless after the seconds it takes to upload it wherever.
▶ No.85474>>85475
If you take an artist's invisibly watermarked image, and pass it through that same watermarking software but this time with your own watermark, will it make the first watermark irretrievable?
▶ No.85475
>>85474
>invisibly
It's a partially opaque text string plastered all over the image. Covering it with your own watermark to scramble the original watermark would work, it's not really the best way to go about it though because it's still covered in watermarks.
▶ No.86109>>86116
Anyone here up for breaking this shitty site? The pornsters on other sites are despairing and it'd be nice to see these assholes fall, but I don't know enough about any of it to be helpful. Would it be worth it to make a thread in half chan for a wider audience?
▶ No.86114
>>85049
It's also an "industry" that becomes completely decimated once any sort of economic downturn occurs because it fits the definition of an extremely luxury good.
▶ No.86115
>>85306
>Bypassing DRM is potentially a felony in the US
>the US
then do it in some other country where they don't care or just use a VPN. If it was easy to get rid of cracks by just suing the people cracking the software we'd see constant lawsuits for people who crack modern AAA games. Some of which get cracked before the game even releases.
Then there's the other caveat which is these people don't have money to pursue lawsuits to their end (lawsuits can easily run you 10 grand) and the people cracking the software most likely don't have any money. So it's a huge waste of time.
▶ No.86116>>88627 >>89171
>>86109
As far as watermarking goes, not website exploits like yiff.party originally used, cracking their techniques simply makes them add more, cat and mouse, but the looming possibility that they can and will sneak in new techniques when they haven't yet been accounted for risks those involved. People have been getting routinely banned by being identified, so the pool of capable people has shrunk, not to mention each such attempt requires a real (small) lump of money, further reducing the willing pool.
It started with IDs placed on the images in inconspicuous colors and locations, quickly detectable by software techniques, to now blurred shapes that are imperceptible to the eye and software depending on the artwork and location of placement. Neither of these is highly advanced compared to the noise technique above, and especially not compared to not-discussed techniques, but each of these are easily defeated once they are known about, likely with some degree of loss in quality. Two or more unique sources would be able to diff the images, however, for optimal results.
I'd be all for systematically stopping it, but finding people online that you can trust, anonymously, is not easy. For most artists it's enough to stop people directly posting uploads to other sites, like here and yiff.party, but other artists are damaged enough to burn everything, including their customers, to try and stop us. Likewise the Primeleap developers need to continue this cat and mouse game or else they will lose their entire business. These people will stalk these threads and other locations thus it can be assumed that anything we know, they know. So, for now, it's a slow steady trickle.
▶ No.86119>>88597
>>85261
why bother..? Patreon's policies allow you to block people without cause when ever you want.
▶ No.88594>>89185
>>84953 (OP)
Any artist using prime leap automatically gets put on the "artists to always avoid" list.
▶ No.88597
>>86119
Because policies alone don't make good PR, if you ban someone "because I can" there will be more backlash
▶ No.88627
>>86116
We just need to continue the game until they break, all those method produce a loss in quality as well, and the multilayering tweening method used now on this shitty site, make some comic image look utterly stupid and require the original images to be twee-able on the same layer and pasted together while still making sense
Basically this is the so called new protection primeleap use, tweened psd layer and the pasted together like in a fucking low quality collage, pretty easy to defeat by re-tweening the image a bit, problem is to be sure you need at least two sources, make a single image fromm both by taking something from page1 and something from 2, then re-tween, done prishit defeated, but indeed it take at least 2 people collaborating, all they had to do is share privately images on anonymous accounts, not That much to ask
AS i said, we just need to keep pressuring them until they do something incredibly stupid, beside paywalling i mean, and then either because of complexity of attempted next drmtardshit or image degradation they will have to either give up or simply die
▶ No.88688>>88697 >>88704
It's not conventional watermarking. It's literally making sure that you never receive the same product as anyone else. This method that they're using will hide details in one person's image but shown to others. You're literally losing entire parts of the image to DRM. Do not support artists who use this.
▶ No.88697
>>88688
In this example the second image have the first picture wing position going back enough to seems dislocated, it's not that accentuated but it's enough to be a bit unsettling, this will inevitably get worse as the need to fuck with images increase, plus the obvious loss in quality by doing this, their choice to protect only someone and not someone else work is due to having the need for low quality crap like this, not sure how they expected no one to notice, but at this point i am not assuming their level of intelligence any more, simply don't support them and help whenever possible to push these idiots to their limits, between their paranoia and carelessness for their own paying customer, it won't be long before they do something so stupid even the white knight can save them from it
▶ No.88704>>89171
>>88688
Holy fuck, talk about going off the deep end for preventing leaks for some shitty porn comic. It's not "Forced to give enough info to get into a url-less site to view some force feeding comic that you'll probably get doxxed for if you leak it." but it's not really that far off. Makes archiving a nightmare because fucking with the image for every person like that means there's no single real definitive version anymore, with every version having some level of missing image.
As great as the site is for the youtube lot getting shafted by the nonexistent ad revenue, patreon needs to die. The worst part is you know the asshats running primeleap would just set up their own payment system if they did go under. Frankly at this point for the half dozen people diving full into the DRM bullshit through primeleap, patreon is just a redundant formality.
Not that I use patreon (and obviously primeleap) for reasons of "(they can) block people without cause when ever you want." like the other anon said, but I really hope there's someone with either the skill or the neetbux to hire someone who can just blow the latter site wide open so we can end this retarded game of cat and mouse, it's already far beyond the point of absurd.
▶ No.89171>>89245
>>86116
A convolutional neural network in constant learning mode is guaranteed to defeat any and all watermarking.
>>88704
If they wanted to protect the copyrights through technological means then all they had to do is to implement a viewer that supports DRM and file encryption format to go with it. But clearly they don't care about that. They wish to be vitriolic and wrathful, they want to punish people, not uphold anyone's rights.
▶ No.89185
>>88594
She's literally forcing people to pay to be her friends now. How shallow and self-important must you be to insist that people pay for the "privilege" to pretend to be your friend when all they want is to see your art? How is she still making any money?
▶ No.89195>>89216
>>89136
All about the art and not wanting it to be lost to the sands of time, but you have no problem sabotaging an artists revenue by pretending to be a fan.
I think the worst part is that these watermarks are invisible, and there are so many people out there who still don’t know how to remove the giant ugly ones.
▶ No.89216>>89242
>>89195
>but you have no problem sabotaging an artists revenue by pretending to be a fan.
Implying piracy lowers sales.
▶ No.89242>>89266 >>89486
>>89216
I have no idea if piracy lowers sales, but the furry record is chock full of artists who quit entirely because people stole their work.
Maybe you disapprove of their sales model, but stealing paywall content to stick it to the man is just being an asshole, and it’s exactly the same as stealing from Warner Bros or HBO. It’s a scumbag thing to do and it takes away all the “morality” earned by the motive.
I download shit all the time but I don’t pretend it’s because I’m a patron of the arts.
▶ No.89245>>89265
>>89171
That will either be cracked or people will just employ creative workarounds. It's even easier if they're just images.
Maybe watermarking is preferred people they thought it would deter potential leakers.
▶ No.89265>>89267
>>89245
Be as that may, that's the way actual billion dollar industries do it, and they seem fine. I mean there was even this 300 page report that piracy does not (negatively) impact sales. Of course arguments like this fall on deaf ears, and in case of furfag artists, they don't even do the math on their earnings, they just want to be draconian about it.
▶ No.89266>>89286
>>89242
>artists who quit entirely because people stole their work
Imagine being so insecure that you quit your best venture because out of all people out there, someone DIDN'T inhale your dick balls deep.
▶ No.89267>>89272 >>89290
>>89265
It has a bigger impact on smaller companies.
▶ No.89272
>>89267
By average the impact is the same, humans have ingrained in their instinct the concept of fairness, it's what helped humanity survive and develop trade to begin with, such instinct still exist and severely influence the humans of today, proof are product that despite having no drm whatsoever and as such super easy to pirate are still bought instead when the customer like it and believe the price to be fair
On the contrary pretty much all studies proved how piracy instead increase sales, especially in the long run. The problem are paranoid artist that do not effectively publicize their work but instead hide it behind paywall and pretend money to even see a demo of their work or publicize only 1/2 images at their lowest quality, how can they pretend customers to judge such deal fair, or even judge an artist skill in the ocean of all others one at all?
The truth is that they are their own worst enemy and pretty much any perceived loss or backlash against them is nearly every time caused by their own behaviour or attitude and then of course instead blame someone else. The same issue happen to the movies industry, the only industry that studies proven to be limitedly harmed by piracy, is the same industry that put and pretend draconic drm and limitations on their products, the only industry that still have refused to update to the digital age and still want to rely on partner to partner deals that allow them absolute control over all aspect of their product
To sum it up, piracy and customers are not the problem, and for the most part neither is drm as it's merely a symptom of the problem, the real issue are over controlling paranoid and more often then not unreasonable megalomaniacal individuals that wish absolute and complete control over everything and anything their so called product touch, is this mentality that is cancerous for the market and have the customer refuse the ridiculous deal and instead turn to piracy for an answer
▶ No.89286>>89290
>>89266
Yeah well I don’t think artists are generally a rational lot. Still coming up with eloaborate schemes and putting the time in to fuck over someone who’s selling something you don’t even want is just spiteful. Trying to make it look altruistic is worse.
Either you care about preserving the art or you want to be a dick to some artists. You can’t have the motives claimed in that outrageously labor-intensive tutorial.
▶ No.89290>>89294
>>89267
It has no impact regardless of size of the company. If anything, it's easier to sell your content as a (relatively) obscure vendor because 1) people root for underdogs and 2) there aren't a lot of people who would do the job of pirating your content in the first place. If someone didn't want to buy your work with free version being available somewhere, they sure as shit ain't gonna pay to see it if pirated version didn't exist. It's a part of human psyche, to take shit you don't care about if it's free but otherwise ignoring it even if it's just 1 penny.
>>89286
It's a Robin Hood kind of deal. You steal from gargantuan faggots and give it away to cool guys.
▶ No.89294>>89295
>>89290
No, it’s just stealing from someone you don’t know at all, and giving it to everybody, shitheads and cool guys alike.
If I “don’t want art lost to the sands of time,” then I’ll support that artist in whatever way I can. I’m not rich, but I am not gonna shit on someone who is just because they have money I don’t.
If you want to use your cunning and put some Robin Hood justice to work on the street, forget about people drawing Zootopia porn and tackle something that actually matters. Like antivaxxers or health care or homelessness or opioid abuse.
Yeah I think it’s absurd that someone just paid 1200 on FA for a single orgy slot. But rather than dedicate my time to annoying that guy and the artist he paid, I feel like I should really just focus on stuff that’s important.
▶ No.89295
>>89294
I also think coming up with some new drm that isn’t any better or different compared to all the drm out there is a waste.
DRM will always be defeated, viewing and copying are always the same thing on the web, and I think the whole media industry is due for a big shakeup. These people trying to use patreon to get rich will have to find something else to do soon anyway. Besides the fact that some consumers just won’t pay for content, and if you eliminated piracy and lowered the price to $1 they still wouldn’t want it. It’s just a big waste of everyone’s time, including debating it.
▶ No.89353>>90716
Artist here and I'd say everyone using PL is a giant cunt. I know my Patreon shit's on Yiff Party so I just don't look at it there. Patreon isn't a paywall for me, it's just a tip jar and I appreciate everyone who's there, but I'm not gonna shit on anyone who can't or doesn't want to pay or deny them anything. I post art online because it's fun and people like it. Hiding your art as a career artist is how you lose your job and a great way to avoid new customers if you take commissions. And people who "pirate" art aren't a loss; they were never going to pay to begin with OR they want to see what you make before deciding if it's worth the cost. I've gained a few Patrons, customers, and watchers from people finding my art in places I didn't intend. So yeah. I don't know what's wrong with this cabal of asshats on Primeleap but they're going to be real disappointed when they can't draw due to age or whatever and they have nothing to live on anymore and nobody cares enough to help them out.
▶ No.89486>>89500
>>89242
>but the furry record is chock full of artists who quit entirely because people stole their work.
The furry world is chock full of artists who quit over the pettiest, most insignificant shit or even no reason at all: trying to avoid any behaviour that could set them off is a futile endeavour.
In any case, your claim was specifically about "sabotaging an artist's revenue", so stop shifting the goalposts.
▶ No.89500
>>89486
I bet it’s hard to figure out who’s saying what. If anyone is shifting goalposts it’s not me. I was asked for my thoughts and it just happens that my first thought was “how hypocritical.”
If what drives you is the desire to be an asshole to someone who has done nothing to harm you, then own that shit. Don’t try to make it look like you’re doing everyone a favor. I won’t respect you much for it but I’ll respect you more than you try to insult my intelligence and tell me you’re something that you clearly are not.
▶ No.89515>>89556
What does PL claim to bring to the game that hasn’t already been tried by every other online publisher? Have they invented something that works better?
▶ No.89556
>>89515
Furry isn't big enough to warrant someone getting to beat it.
▶ No.90716
>>89353
>Hiding your art as a career artist is how you lose your job and a great way to avoid new customers if you take commissions.
Thing is, artists fully know this. That's why it's so amusing to see them buckle to this realization and post their paywalled content weeks later on their galleries. They'd absolutely love to be fully paywalled and never show their art to those they see as filthy plebeians, but they know they can't do that because they'd lose those followers that give them reputation.
And the best part is that by doing that, they're completely negating all of their paywalling efforts. All of the people who were on the fence about becoming Patrons will just wait the few weeks if they know all art will eventually be released for free, resulting in way less of that sweet, sweet Patreon money.
▶ No.91792>>91805
How the fuck work this site? I'm no having any fanbase and I don't have a Patreon
First I think I was for easy communication with followers... But now I'm confused
▶ No.91805>>91817
>>91792
It's purely a DRM measure for people who already have a patreon set up, it doesn't function purely on its own.
>If you're wanting to support someone who uses it
You need a patreon account and to support someone using it, though it's a guarantee that whoever is using it is a shitty person for some variation of "I value fucking up the artwork to spite 'pirates' instead of valuing the artwork's integrity and the people giving me money."
>If you're an artist who wants to get in on it
I think it's a "Sekret Club" sort of deal where you need to be good friends with someone who is already in before you get access. Though, if you remotely even for a moment genuinely consider primeleap integration, you are completely an absolutely shitty person and don't deserve a single ounce of success for whatever mess you make with that DRM being stuffed all over your artwork, and the extra hoops your forcing your paying supporters to jump through just to spite people that mostly couldn't give less of a shit.
▶ No.91817
>>91805
Oh. So a drm site? I think I will delet the club that I made.
Thanks for the info