/fit/ - Fitness, Health, and Feels

Same old topic.

The other day I tested my testosterone, I'm in my twenties, and had around 770ng/dl, it's decent but I also want to optimize ti.

Started with zinc/magnesium, and will increase squats, and cardio (need to lose fat, with less fat -> less estrogen)

>>130101

Thyroid hormones: their role in testicular steroidogenesis.

>Thyroid hormones are important for growth and development of many tissues. Altered thyroid hormone status causes testicular abnormalities. […] T3 stimulates Sertoli cell lactate secretion as well as mRNA expression of inhibin-alpha, androgen receptor, IGF-I, and IGFBP-4. It also inhibits Sertoli cell mRNA expression of Müllerian inhibiting substance (MIS), aromatase, estradiol receptor, and androgen binding protein (ABP) and ABP secretion. […] [T3] stimulates basal and LH-induced secretion of progesterone, testosterone, and estradiol by Leydig cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12893516

Leydig cells, thyroid hormones and steroidogenesis

>Thyroid hormones acutely stimulate Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Thyroid hormones cause proliferation of the cytoplasmic organelle peroxisome and stimulate the production of steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) and StAR mRNA in Leydig cells; both peroxisomes and StAR are linked with the transport of cholesterol, the obligatory intermediate in steroid hormone biosynthesis, into mitochondria. […] Additionally, out of all cell types in the testis, the thyrotropin.releasing hormone (TRH), TRH mRNA and TRH receptor are present exclusively in Leydig cells.

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/handle/123456789/23265

The role of thyroid hormone in testicular development and function

>Although for many years testis has been regarded as a thyroid hormone unresponsive organ, it is now evident that thyroid hormone plays an important role in testicular development and function. A considerable amount of data show that thyroid hormone influences steroidogenesis as well as spermatogenesis. The involvement of tri-iodothyronine (T3) in the control of Sertoli cell proliferation and functional maturation is widely accepted, as well as its role in postnatal Leydig cell differentiation and steroidogenesis. The presence of thyroid hormone receptors in testicular cells throughout development and in adulthood implies that T3 may act directly on these cells to bring about its effects.

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/199/3/351.short

Changes in the Testis Interstitium of Brown Norway Rats with Aging and Effects of Luteinizing and Thyroid Hormones on the Aged Testes in Enhancing the Steroidogenic Potential

>These findings show that with 24+5-μg dose of LH+T4 per day for 4 wk, a 100% recovery of the average volume of a Leydig cell and its steroidogenic ability in vitro and a 73% and 300% restoration of serum testosterone levels compared to 3M and 19M control rats, respectively, could be achieved in aged Brown Norway rats. A 100% reversibility (compared to 3M rats) in serum testosterone levels appears to be possible with adjustments in the LH and T4 doses in the LH+T4 treatment.

https://academic.oup.com/biolreprod/article/66/5/1359/2723901

Effect of retinol and retinoic acid on testosterone production by rat Leydig cells in primary culture

>It was found that both retinoic acid and retinol stimulated testosterone production. Although retinol was less potent than retinoic acid, retinol had the greater efficacy. […] These results demonstrate for the first time that retinol and retinoic acid have a direct effect on Leydig cell steroidogenesis in culture suggesting that retinoids play a role in the maintenance and regulation of Leydig cell function.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X89800610

An in vitro cell model system to study the action of retinoids on Leydig cell steroidogenesis.

>Results showed that both retinol and retinoic acid greatly increased progesterone production in this cloned cell line. […] Both previous and present findings suggest that retinoids play an important role in the regulation of Leydig cell steroidogenesis

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1964377

Retinoic acids up-regulate steroidogenic acute regulatory protein gene

>The steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein plays essential roles in the delivery of cytosolic cholesterol into the mitochondrial inner membrane, which is an acute regulated and rate-limiting step for the steroid hormone synthesis. Since retinoic acids (RAs) are known to induce the synthesis of steroid hormones in mouse Leydig cells in vitro, mouse Leydig tumour cells, K28, were used to determine the effect of RAs on the level of StAR mRNA by Northern blot analysis. The level of StAR mRNA reached the maximum in a 4–8 h treatment with all-trans-RA (atRA) or 9-cis-RA (9cRA), and the effects were dose-dependent.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303720798002433

>>130104

It's not necessarily cold showers. Keeping your balls cool will help with testosterone production. Cold showers force the body to use energy to warm it up. This is why swimming in cold water helps with weight loss so long as you don't engorge yourself with food afterwards due to increased apetite.

>>130096

>The other day I tested my testosterone

How do you that? Is it a simple blood test?

Do you have to ask your physician first or you have to go directly to a specialist?

Gay sex.

Only by injections of testosterone deep within you can you become more manly.

>>130139

It's the other way around. Dom gays have higher than average testosterone.

>>130101

>cholesterol

Wait isn't that fat?

Meaning it increases estrogen?

Or is there a difference?

>>130095

I hear fapping too much lowers you, as does not fapping at all. I believe the ideal was like once every 2 weeks.

>>130195

>Wait isn't that fat?

Cholesterol is a sterol lipid that steroid hormones are made from. In humans and animals, the main constituents of body fat are a type of glycerolipid called triglycerides, which are esters derived from glycerol and three fatty acids. Cholesterol, triglycerides/glycerolipids, and fatty acids are all lipids, but cholesterol is neither body fat nor a fatty acid.

>Meaning it increases estrogen?

When the body has the will and the means to utilize cholesterol, it first makes pregnenolone which is upstream of certain estrogens, and in theory if the body has the will and the means to go through several processing steps to make an estrogen, it will do so. (Please see the earlier uploaded hormone chart.) This is not a potential pitfall of cholesterol itself but many hormones and their precursors in general, as even the much beloved testosterone can convert into an estrogen through a single step. How likely this is to happen depends on your state of health, level of stress, nutritional status, and sex, but the body is always making some amount of each hormone. (Men make estrogen too, just in smaller amounts.) Increasing cholesterol is just going to increase the opportunity for the body to make more of every hormone it needs to adapt to the current situation, so if you convince the body it only primarily needs to make androgens, because other problems are not very severe, that's how most of the cholesterol will be used.

>Or is there a difference?

Yes.

>>130196

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid

>>130196

So where can I read about this shit?

Yes you link Wikipedia, but I'm not proficient enough in the subject to make sense of it all.

I asked in another thread, but how do you learn this stuff? I want to know the in depth nutritional facts, but where do you recommend starting? All my knowledge of hormones is, estrogen bad, testosterone good. Diet is simplistic too, just macros. I know vitamins supposedly have different types e.g Vitamin D3 and 6, but I have no idea what any of this actually means, and am not really a fan of what people online advise, because people say stupid shit and just repeat bullshit. E.g Crossfit. I don't know nutrition, but I know poor form is a horrible thing. Yet people praise it because its popular.

TLDR I don't understand, what's a good introduction to all this biochemistry?

>>130201

>So where can I read about this shit?

All sorts of places.

>Yes you link Wikipedia, but I'm not proficient enough in the subject to make sense of it all.

I don't make sense of it all either.

>I asked in another thread, but how do you learn this stuff?

I have lots of questions that I feel compelled to answer, so I just ask search engines random things every single day. Maybe that doesn't seem helpful. Search engines refer people to a lot of bad information too, but I keep doing it and doing it. The more I read on a topic, the better I get at moving beyond the crap results. I don't use just one search engine, and many that I use are specialized for a specific purpose. If I want to explore the basics of a simple topic, I might employ a generic web search. If I want to explore the relationships between two objects of biology, I might use something like scholar.google.com or an equivalent. For example, if I wanted to learn the relationship between polyunsaturated fats and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), I might send the query "polyunsaturated fat NAFLD" and soon find this as a result:

A new model for nonalcoholic steatohepatitis in the rat utilizing total enteral nutrition to overfeed a high-polyunsaturated fat diet

>We have used total enteral nutrition (TEN) to moderately overfeed rats high-polyunsaturated fat diets to develop a model for nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH). […] Significant positive correlations were observed between the level of dietary corn oil and the degree of pathology, ALTs, oxidative stress, and inflammation. Liver pathology was progressive with increased necrosis, accompanied by fibrosis, observed after 65 days of TEN. […] These data suggest that intragastric infusion of a high-polyunsaturated fat diet at a caloric level of 17% excess total calories results in pathology similar to clinical NASH.

http://www.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajpgi.00296.2007

If you go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-alcoholic_fatty_liver_disease you will see:

>Non-alcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) is the most extreme form of NAFLD.

Hmm. I read somewhere about an a relationship between diabetes and NAFLD. What would happen if I searched "diabetes NAFLD" or even better "diabetes NAFLD rat". (Controlled animal experiments are better than observational studies.) Oh wait. Could there be a relationship between polyunsaturated fat and diabetes?

>I want to know the in depth nutritional facts, but where do you recommend starting?

There is no specific place I recommend. I have no treasured books or libraries, only a way of inquiry which is not transferable to you, except superficially. Whether or not you want to be curious search for answers is up to you.

>estrogen bad

Bad for what? Good for anything?

>testosterone good

Good for what? Bad for anything?

>I have no idea what any of this actually means,

If it's any consolation, I have no idea what anything actually means.

>>130120

Two ways, depending on the country.

Either you find a private way to get them, such as is possible in the USA. Or you just ask your physician to test whatever you need (you might need to give him a "valid" reason).

>>130267

Just checked and privately it would cost 200 bucks for the complete checkup.

Should I be testing only for free and total testosterone?

>>130268

Original commenter here. I only tested total testosterone, because I asked for broad blood hormone tests with total testosterone testing added. Didn't want to make a fuss, and even still the doctor thought I might have serious symptoms because of simply caring enough to want to test total testosterone, hah, at least he was still reasonable about it and didn't try to stop me at all, just made sure I wasn't feeling "geriatric". Some docs might be pains in the ass because today you are supposed to be a soyboy. Lucky for me I have a chill doctor, but you might not have the same luck.

200$ is a good price for private testing as far as I know.

>>130269

>200$ is a good price for private testing as far as I know.

It probably is, but as college student spending that much is out of question.

I'll have to ask my doctor if I can do it for free through public health care or at least get a discount when donating blood.

>>130104

censor that lewd shit you leaf

>>130095

Inject it IM

eat a lot of broccoli and onions

>>130303

fuck off (((nofap)))

really strange how high quality threads suddenly get slid and just sink into oblivion.

giving this good thread a courtest bump because there are a few new threads that suddenly showed up out of nowhere. not sure what's up with that but this beats some of them in thread quality. I might bump another thread or two if it's good with a similar post.

>>130095

Stop eating soy is a good first step. soy is in practically everything you buy at the store

Lift and do no-fap as well.

>>131720

nofap is a scam. doing it all day every day is very bad, but doing it never is also really bad.

>fap twice

>wait at least 4 days

>fap twice

>wait at least 4 days

take a good shower and wash your hair right after fapping.

>>131605

>(((nofap)))

Yesss, yessss :^)

Did you get offered a 20% discount for BLACKED if you shilled for fapping?

>>131748

fapping in excess is cucked, but no fap is just as cucked.

>bunch of AA meeting nofap cucks get together to verbally masturbate each other for not fapping "hi im buck and I didnt fuck for 3 whole weeks" "oh no Im bob and I did a bad job cause I broke down and fapped Im so sad and depressed I blame all my lifes failures on fapping"

>>131752

>>131745

It's not actually true. Fapping is different from sex.

>>132217

what does that have to do with what I said? read it again.

Masturbation is for faggots who are slaves to the Jewish porn industry.

>>132316

animals masturbate too. are animals falling for jewish tricks too? I would say yes, but not because they masturbate

>>132372

Rarely. Rarely animals also jump off of cliffs.

>>132380

since animals masturbate rarely, but according to your logic they also rarely jump off cliffs I would have to say that I wouldn't EVER recommend jumping off cliffs because it results in SEVERE INJURY AND DEATH. (WARNING! NEVER DO THIS!), but as a theoretical concept one could argue that jumping off cliffs is very adrenaline inducing and manly and therefore good for testosterone optimization.

>>132412

my post was obviously a joke.

>Fapping constantly isn't healthy for you

agreed

>complete abstinence from fapping with religious fervor is unnecessary and gay.

agreed

that's why I posted this:

>>131745

>>132416

Stating something is a scam and is actually bad for you, is not the same as stating that it's unnecessary.

>>132421

what exactly are you referring to? please be very specific and straight forward. stop beating around the bush like a jew.

>>130268

>>130269

Two hundred dollars is great for a walk-in price. But you are getting ripped off. Search online, you can get a T test for 40$. Kicker is, test will probably be at the same location that would charge you 200$ walking in off the street.

>>132429

I referring the fucking post he put in his post you blind fucking faggot, I'm not beating around anything you nigger. >>131745

>>132458

>I referring the fucking post he put in his post you blind fucking faggot, I'm not beating around anything you nigger.

>>132421

>Stating something is a scam and is actually bad for you, is not the same as stating that it's unnecessary.

it's almost like you don't want to be honest and straight forward about whatever you're trying to say. it's like you're trying to confuse people on what was being said in that post.

>>132380

>Rarely

Spotted the guy who's never owned a stallion or intact male dog.

>>132524

why?

>implying specifically those animals like to jump off cliffs

?????????????? is that what you're saying?

ZMA

Vitamin D (5000 IU)

Supplement stuff you actually have deficiencies for (no shit)

Lifting

That's it. Other stuff is snake oil or just impractical.

>>130096

770 is above average. The only way you'll be able to optimize it is by steroids probably

>>132647

Averages are not something to look to when the entirety of the populace is made up of fat degenerates.

>>132465

Refer to >>131745

>nofap is a scam

>intentional misenterpretation

Fuck off you kike.

broccoli, onions, garlic, oats, pumpkin seeds.

Go nofap.

>>132777

>go on nofap

>feel the urge

>well I can't fap! gotta follow the rules!

>brain gets foggy

>shit gets unreal

>start thinking fat landwhales are sexy

>start making dumb choices

>break down and fap

>hello nofaps anonymous AA meeting my name is bob and I broke down and fapped today, I blame all my lifes problems on fapping

>everybody claps

>you can do it bob!

>nofap for another month without breaking down

>all kinds of stupid things become sexy

>the counch starts to grow tits

>need to fuck the couch

>NO NO NO look at those tits, look at the top of those cushions, look at the sides of those seats!

>run outside

>blink

>suddenly you're married to some fat bitch because the rules don't say anything about not being able to fuck so your brain automatically subconsiously decided to hypnotise you into getting a wife because by your corrupted logic ruleset it's the only way to get relief

>get cucked hard as she divorces you and takes you to court for everything you own including your dog you have owned for years before you met her which she puts down right after the divorce

>homeless

this is what the (((globalists))) want for you

>>132888

Sorry anon, I got lucky 7's. Your 8's are respectable but you aren't going to make it.

>>132923

>you aren't going to make it.

I already did.

>>132967

What in god's name is that? Former obese that roided and took too much growth hormone?

>>132577

>>132372

>animals masturbate too.

>>132380

>Rarely.

>>132971

Muscle tears, body dysmorphia and huge palumboism mostly from insulin. That's Big Lenny. He's done IGF and I believe HGH, but that guts from taking 40 IU of insulin "every time he has a big meal" and force feeding himself. He actually had promise before all the muscle tears joint calcification and gut growth, benched like 465 raw, deadlifted like 800. Now he quarter reps like 265 with great effort on the bench because of his muscle tears and lack of mobility from ruined joints.

>>133368

Damn, a search on palumboism is nasty. Thank you, I think.