6hrs of Silverstone WEC Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:35:01 86fc9e No. 4904 [Last50 Posts]
12:00hrs GMT
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:40:33 86fc9e No. 4909
The Nissan car is a very interesting one. It is a front engine front wheel drive car. Bucking the trend of mid engine rear wheel drive.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:40:45 86fc9e No. 4911
>Davidson
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:42:49 86fc9e No. 4912
>>4911 Yes, Anthony Davidson. He is the reigning drivers champion with Sebastian Buemi. Toyota being the reigning constructors champions. Their third driver for this year is Kazuki Nakajima.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:49:46 86fc9e No. 4917
>>4909 And it is completely falling apart but the NISMO PR machine won't let you know it.
They will be utterly terrible at Le Mans but will spin it all around by going:
>FASTEST LAP FOR A FWD FRONT ENGINED CAR >EAT SLEEP RACE REPEAT >EAT SLEEP RACE REPEAT >EAT SLEEP RACE REPEAT Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:50:49 86fc9e No. 4918
>>4909 it also sucks balls and has severe reliability issues tied to being frontwheel drive
>>4917 oh man, you called it
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:56:34 86fc9e No. 4919
>>4917 >>4918 I have no idea why they would go for such a solution. Don't front wheel drive cars also suffer from torque steer? That weight in the front can also not be good for overall handling.
I also heard that they might be struggling with weight, so putting the hybrid energy at the rear wheel for a 4wd solution might be hard for them too.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 08:59:08 86fc9e No. 4920
>>4919 you're right.
torque steer, bump steer, severe understeer, and very, very, very marginal weight savings (drivelines are not particularly heavy relative to other car components). Front wheel drive was a publicity move.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:00:42 86fc9e No. 4921
>>4919 They were doing it for speed.
By putting the engine at the front they exploit the rules for the aero and gets these ridiculously big tunnels in the car to the rear
It's a car which on paper should be brilliant but is just too radical to work in reality.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:04:58 86fc9e No. 4922
>>4921 >loophole car then they deserve to have it not work.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:07:52 86fc9e No. 4923
>>4922 It's not really a loophole in that it doesn't break the spirit of the rules. The other manufacturer just decided to go the traditional route.
But if you go for a radical design then there is a high chance it will fail massively.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:11:22 86fc9e No. 4925
>>4923 okay then.
Even if the car works, their driver lineup is hilariously bad aside from Marc Gene and Sutil
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:12:39 86fc9e No. 4926
>>4925 I don't Sutil is doing it.
He's got the Williams reserve job now.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:14:24 86fc9e No. 4928
>>4926 oh really? I had heard that he was doing it. Ok fewer people to make up for Chilton and minihamilnigger's inimitably terrible driving.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:15:27 86fc9e No. 4929
>>4926 He should do it though. It's not like he's gonna get to drive there. You don't get an LMP1 drive easily, specially with a factory team.
Hulkenberg is doing the 6hrs of Spa and Le Mans this year. I don't see why Sutil can't do it being a reserve driver.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:17:59 86fc9e No. 4931
>>4929 The difference is a contract with Williams is much better than a contract with Force India.
I imagine Frank will have told him he isn't allowed to do both and it was a choice of racing for Nissan or maybe getting a chance at Williams.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:20:38 86fc9e No. 4932
how do they decide who does what stint?
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:26:18 86fc9e No. 4934
>>4932 You generally want to put you fastest driver in the beginning and end of the race. You put you most consistent driver in the middle stints.
There is a time limit. Drivers can't drive for more than 4 and a half hours for the total time and need to drive a minimum of 40 mins.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:28:45 86fc9e No. 4936
>>4934 What year did they put those rules in place? BC I know Luigi chinetti drove nearly all 24 hours of le mans one year ages ago
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 09:34:45 86fc9e No. 4938
>>4917 Lets be real, nismo is a marketing department that also has a motorsport division.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 10:07:12 86fc9e No. 4941
>>4936 Some time within the modern ear I believe
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 10:33:12 86fc9e No. 4944
Half an hour to go!
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 10:43:46 86fc9e No. 4945
American singing god save the queen
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 10:47:45 86fc9e No. 4946
Webber starting
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 10:53:07 86fc9e No. 4947
Nice starting formation
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 10:59:11 86fc9e No. 4948
Just woke up from a nap so I'm late, for more on the Nissan see:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsnov14.html http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan15.html TL;DR the tunnels are an effort to increase the downforce created by the front diffuser and solve the aero understeer inherent in modern prototype design. This has been attempted before, though not with this layout (Audi R15). Weight distribution can be compensated for through aero balance.
The physics is there, whether or not Nissan burn enough money in order to make it work is another thing.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 11:03:42 86fc9e No. 4949
>audi
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 11:11:41 86fc9e No. 4950
Wobbler has a good cushion
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 11:14:05 86fc9e No. 4951
windy
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 11:19:50 86fc9e No. 4952
Wurz really pushing the track limits
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 11:25:44 86fc9e No. 4953
now this is pod-racing
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 12:06:34 86fc9e No. 4955
Toyota being reeled in
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 12:11:21 86fc9e No. 4956
<Toyota
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 12:31:51 86fc9e No. 4957
17 Porsche drivetrain issue and 8 Audi damaged bodywork
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 12:39:52 86fc9e No. 4958
Fugg,, that battle
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 13:16:21 86fc9e No. 4959
>>4958 And yet if you recommend WEC style engine rules for F1 (Or just making F1 cars open wheeled LMP1 cars) someone calls you an eco nutter and ruining F1
8MJ is fucking cool
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 14:05:58 86fc9e No. 4960
The commentators constant bashing of F1 is getting pretty sad.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 14:16:16 86fc9e No. 4961
>>4960 They always do that.
A lot of it is to do with the fact that sports car racing has always been F1's baby brother when it came to attention. Major TV broadcasters just didn't and don't care about it.
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 14:16:54 86fc9e No. 4962
>>4960 yeah, watching for the first time and i'm over that already. pretty interesting otherwise
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 14:32:06 86fc9e No. 4963
Menacing looking clouds
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 15:35:43 86fc9e No. 4964
Nakajima needs to get closer!
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 15:43:42 86fc9e No. 4965
So when's the Nissan meant to make it's debut?>handle like shit >omfglolmao in a straight line
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 15:51:02 86fc9e No. 4966
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 16:42:36 86fc9e No. 4967
Ahahaaha<Audi
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 16:48:44 86fc9e No. 4968
>>4967 Such a Nascar type penalty to get a good finish to the race
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Backmarker 04/12/15 (Sun) 17:02:18 86fc9e No. 4969
Fantastic race. Great battles and a real chase for the win, fantastic.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 19:17:24 86fc9e No. 5138
>>4909 FWD? Man how did the engineers ever think that was a good idea? Those cars can already corner mad cunts. Why take away the straight line speed and accel? No reason for it.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 20:00:14 86fc9e No. 5140
>>5138 They are doing it for pure straight line speed and acceleration.
If you saw Silverstone the Porsche was an absolute monster in a straight line overtaking the audi which was better in the corners.
If the Nissan was 100% working and fine it would in theory make the Porsche look like it was standing still.
It's just such a crazy idea that the transition from paper to reality isn't working.
Maybe in a few years they will have got it but for now it's a piece of shit.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 20:29:05 86fc9e No. 5142
>>5140 Its also worth noting that front wheel drive requires a lot of anti squat in the rear suspension(which murders traction sensing road feel at the rear) because when a car accelerates, it leans rearward. With rear wheel drive, leaning rearward puts weight onto the driven wheels, which is good as it results in more traction. With front wheel drive, this takes traction away from the driven wheels, which is shitty.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 20:38:53 86fc9e No. 5145
>>5142 yeah but in Nissan paper world occasionally (during accel) the rear wheels would be receiving about 700hp from an electric motor at the front sending power to the rear axle via a drive shaft.
The front wheels would be powered by a 500hp ICE located at the front.
All of this to allow these big tunnels to run through the car providing downforce with minimum drag. Initially they wanted special compensation from the ACO & FIA to not run a rear wing at Le Mans
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 20:49:53 86fc9e No. 5147
>>5145 What a pointlessly complicated way to solve a problem. Reminds me of the fake (electronically engaged, transfer case less) all wheel drive systems we have in what seems like every car today. Where a computer decides what situation merits being anything other than front wheel drive for a small period of time, and without the ability to have all four wheels go different speeds. And inevitably some cretin who bought one thinking it was the real deal touts that "it can send up to 70 percent of the power to the rear wheels* (in a small set of computer decided circumstances for limited periods of time)". How about just having an actual rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive car? Or hell even a front wheel drive car and just not lying to yourself and adding weight and a driveline tunnel?
Sorry, not entirely relevant, but just a thing that drives me nuts.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 21:01:28 86fc9e No. 5149
>>5147 because putting everything at the front allows them to have these tunnels and shrink the rear down minimising drag even more.
you only need the power for the acceleration to top speed after that you can coast the rest of the way down the straight.
The car is set up for absolute top speed.
I really wish that Nissan could get it working as it sounds fascinating.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 21:14:30 86fc9e No. 5151
>>5149 They're compromising frontal area dramatically by making the hood so high, coefficient of drag isn't all that matters. I could bitch about this all day.
Are there any plans to bring back a production based class with limited restrictions like Gt1?
I miss the McLaren f1 lm, and the Ferraris, and the tom walkinshaw jaguars that actually shared parts with the xjr15 and the xj220, and the lotus esprits that were fast as all hell but would lunch their gearboxes in 8 seconds.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 21:32:33 86fc9e No. 5153
>>5151 I think there were plans to make more road representative looking LMP1 cars.
I do wish we could see a p1 vs 918 vs laferrari in the racing world.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 21:45:16 86fc9e No. 5155
>>5153 A more road representative lmp1 defeats the point of prototypes. Prototypes are limited in displacement, but can have more wild concepts implemented as they don't have to be productionized and don't have to meet ridiculous national road safety standards. Whereas production based cars have to be more conservative but aren't limited in displacement and have to have a homologated production run. I would rather have what we have now, than a bastardized version of both.
McLaren p1, Ferrari la Ferrari, and Porsche 918 which would all most likely be slower than their forbearers over a race distance at lemans. This hybrid shit, the forcibly homogenous automotive designs (thanks to overzealous regulation), and the obsession with driver aids are ruining the performance automotive world.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 21:54:00 86fc9e No. 5156
>>5155 >A more road representative lmp1 defeats the point of prototypes Not to the manufacturers who like to use your two favourite words.
Road relevance.
They just want the car to look more like their production cars to make them slightly more marketable. Same as how Pirelli want low profile tyres in F1 so they can better sell the image.
It would be like NASCAR. Prototype underneath. Body shell on top.
I think we can share a bullet if you want to go out now before it happens.
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Backmarker 04/15/15 (Wed) 22:06:36 86fc9e No. 5159
>>5156 Count me in as the 3rd man to the bullet. Losing CART to the shitshow that is the IRL was a heavy blow, if this shit happens to WEC and formula 1 stays like it is or gets worse that'll be more than I can take.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 06:08:20 86fc9e No. 5191
>>5149 >you only need the power for the acceleration to top speed after that you can coast the rest of the way down the straight. Ideally you want to adjust your gear ratios to make you top out on the longest straight only moments before the brake zone. This lets you stay quick but also have a good top speed. You don't over take or keep your pos by going faster, it's by accelerating better to you top out at the end of the straight. If you top out too quickly then every one is going to contribute to the dust on your windshield.
There is theory and then there is application.
Racing falls under applied physics. A fun game as far as I have contended with in it.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 06:25:28 86fc9e No. 5193
>>5191 For saving on fuel you do the quick acceleration and coast method.
It is the reason F1 has the fuel flow check.
If it wasn't there the teams would do that but because the engines are different each team would do it to a different amount. This would lead to large closing speeds at the end of straights between cars.
To the FIA large closings speeds are unsafe so they put in the fuel flow to try and combat it.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 06:30:37 86fc9e No. 5194
>>5193 If it isn't fast it doesn't belong in racing.
If it isn't safe 10 times out of 10 it's the driver not being aware of having to brake slightly earlier when following another car. Just because you can close the 5 car lengths into the corner doesn't mean you should.
idk man I just can't use a method that isn't fast or competitive. It's just how I race.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 06:37:09 86fc9e No. 5196
>>5194 Well the drivers are already doing the lift and coasting and harvesting energy which is why they have rain light going to warn the following driver before the braking zone.
I just remember all of this because it was from the Red Bull fuel flow trial in Australia last year. Red bull wanted to get rid of it completely and the FIA got the guy who drew up the regulations to start drawing on a whiteboard.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 06:44:38 86fc9e No. 5200
>>5194 agreed.
>>5196 >Red bull wanted to get rid of it completely and the FIA got the guy who drew up the regulations to start drawing on a whiteboard. pls clarify
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 07:00:31 86fc9e No. 5205
>>5200 Fabrice Lom who is the FIA head of powertains was brought into the appeal to show why the fuel flow was needed, when Red Bull broke the regs and to just explain it better to the journalists.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 07:06:15 86fc9e No. 5206
>>5205 Here is the actual quote.
>"Engineers are engineers, so if you have 100kg for the race, you try to be the fastest for the race. Let's keep it simple and say you have a 50 lap race, that's 2kg [of fuel] per lap to start with. With this 2kg you want to do the best lap time, you don't want to be slow, you don't want to please the FIA, you want to be fastest. If you have no fuel flow limit, the fastest thing is to use a huge boost at the beginning of the straight and then lift off. Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 07:17:16 86fc9e No. 5207
>>5206 Thanks for clarifying. I didn't understand your point before. A fuel conservation formula is still retarded though. Obviously this rule is important to the regs we have, but the regs we have are just terrible.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 15:12:21 86fc9e No. 5218
>>5206 If you need to constantly change mix settings during a race you are breaking the most important rule, consistency. You can't be fast one lap and turn it down the next. To be consistently fast during the course of the entire race is to ensure victory. On paper as fuel bleeds off every lap should be faster, if it weren't for tires that suck on life time. To lift on a straight is to bleed not just tenths but FULL seconds in terms of not just lap times but on a sector basis. The slightest mistake at these speeds is costly, 1 tenth of a second is a full car length at top speed.
I know this is going to add another level of FIA frowning but power braking is the best thing to do. Fly in full speed and apply brakes while lifting. This mitigates transient motion on the chassis, easing the transition from aero grip to mechanical, and allows smooth turn in.
I hate to say it but all this stuff you explained, while it makes sense why they do it, just seems like it turns F1 into a multi million dollar day care camp.
PS: wish we had 1,500 bhp in todays engines.
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Backmarker 04/16/15 (Thu) 22:14:29 86fc9e No. 5274
>>5218 >just seems like it turns F1 into a multi million dollar day care camp. ain't that the truth
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