/cyoa/ - Choose Your Own Adventure

>>11364

>Mutations

Wings, Tail, Claws

>Powers

Shapeshifting, Space, Elemental, Scrying, Silver Tongue, +3 Special

>DPU Generation

Automatic

>Minions (arcane spec)

Succubus (Demon) Fairy Queen (Nature), Red Dragon (monster), Shadow Fiend (Abyss)

>Servants

Dwarven Craftsman, Spirit Enchanter, Forest Elf

>Core Guardians

Alice

>Creation Powers

Luxuries, Interference Crystal, Talisman of Warding

>Location

Gadresh

First, I refuse to take anything from Anastasia, or to give her anything via drawbacks. Not only is my primary concern going to be growing my own power, but I also don't want to provide any more to a potential future rival.

I'm going to lay low, as low as possible, subterranean even. I'm literally going to dig out my lair underground with the help of elemental magic and dwarves, and then remove the entrance and ward the place from scrying/teleportation. Ideally no one, even the gods, will know I exist much less where I am. As for the rules even underground I'm not IMPOSSIBLE to reach. If they can find me the hero can certainly tunnel their way in in a reasonable time frame. The difficulty is finding me. I will leave no trace outside, not even the tiny power drain from a Life or Emotion Core.

Inside, I'll be playing real-time dwarf fortress, building an underground empire completely isolated from the world. The elves can provide plant life and the enchanters light and other magical features. I can also scry out to keep an eye on the world both for general entertainment and so I don't get blindsided by a random hero just happening to discover me. Silver tongue seems necessary for the language skills alone, otherwise I wouldn't understand anyone nor would I be any good at trying to talk down any heroes (really, I'm not hurting anyone here!)

Minions are primarily chosen for sociability. I'm going to be spending a LOT of time down here so I'd rather not surround myself with literal monsters. The only exception is the Shadow Fiend, which makes an excellent combo with Alice's magic blocking. Ironically I don't choose any Arcane minions in spite of the Arcane focus (just for Alice). Alice is the best mix of personality and power for a "good" demon lord. Puff would be second but he's a bit of a letch apparently (female dragons, plural)

I'll be down here for a few hundred years at least. First I'll probably pick up the other servants and a couple more minion types, or maybe top off my Special first if it seems worth it, then spend some time topping up my other stats and picking up one or two more guardians (only puff and shiro are "viable" to me).

When I finally do emerge, either when I'm comfortable with my development or hiding is no longer viable, I come in peace. Well, peace for the humans and other civilized people at least. I chose Gadresh because they seemed to be the most reasonable, and I can make myself useful dealing with their monster problem, and because it means lots of unexplored wildland to hide my base in. Obviously the gods won't stand for it, but there can be no peace with them anyway.

>>11370

Nice build. I like the combination of Alice and the shadow fiend. It looks like you only took 3 creation abilities. You have 4 points to spend on the creation section so you could get one more ability there if you wanted.

Hmm, I like what I see here. Will come back with a post, this will take some planning.

You had me despite the obnoxious woman but you lost me with the "game rules" at the end. Get the fuck out of here with that shit. If there could be timetraveling teleporting superniggers then I don't see why it's wrong to make a maze of doors that's "just too hard and complicated" (boo hoo).

>>11389

Dude it's just like the rules in a tower defense game. You can build a maze but you can't build a wall.

>>11380

Alarm I guess. That and False Core I'll want eventually, nothing else really interests me in that section.

>>11389

the maze thing is basically describing a giant combination lock with more combinations than would be possible to brute force in a lifetime.

>>11389

Here's how I look at it. When the hero game begins both gods and elder demons lords will be tuning in to watch the game. The hero game is a show to them where they judge the worthiness of young demon lords and heroes. What they want to see is a good contest between a demon lord and a hero. If you make the hero run through endless tunnels and obstructions there will be no true contest and no timely conclusion. You will have made an entire pantheon of the most powerful entities in the universe watch the most boring show in the universe. In that case they're going to rule against you. So, they are telling you not to do that by giving you a set of general rules to follow for the game well in advance of the game. If you don't do something ridiculous, then the hammer won't come down on you.

>>11364

>>11381

AW SHIT IT'S OUT

>Wings

Hell yeah, big white angel wings. Like in the picture. Yeah, I know I'm supposed to be a demon. I really don't give a fuck though, angels are cooler

>Horns

Wish I didn't have to take two options, or if there were more options like unnatural skin tones; it wouldn't be too out of place for an angel to be an alabaster white, I think? Oh well, draconic horns should still be fine

>free abilities

There's some nice stuff here. Free immortality is always good to see, sustenance is handy, and status immunity will probably save me a lot of trouble at some point

>Shapeshifting (7 free points left)

I'll probably mainly use this to just get rid of my horns, though going around in disguise will probably be useful too

>Regeneration (6)

Basic immortality already gives you some, but more is always good

>Restoration (5)

I'm gonna be borderline invincible. While we're at it…

>Enhancement x4 (1)

2 going into hp, 1 each in durability and resistance. Still not at hero rank, but I have a feeling most of the points are better used on various tricks

>Debilitate (last of the freebies)

This sounds really, really strong. Literally halves all of your enemy's stats

>magic eye (9)

Buckets of utility

>Silver tongue (8)

I'm the good guy here. Trust me.

>Life DPU generator

5/hour isn't much, but it works in a six mile radius, give or take, so as long as there are 200 people within that distance, which shouldn't be hard, I'll be going more than auto. And ideally I'll eventually have my own kingdom of followers generating even more DPU for me

<8 bonus points for this section only?

>Monster specialization

None of these are really that good for my holy angel aesthetic, but generic fantasy is still better than most of the alternatives

>Plaguebearer (6 bonus points left)

I'll do what I can to wave off their superstitions. My messenger crows are wise and clean, much more like Odin's familiars

>Minotaur (5)

Give them some shiny enough armor and it'll be fine

>Manticore (4)

I'll make a note to keep them well-groomed and majestic. Possible use as battle-mounts?

>Red Dragon (3)

I'll admit it, these T4s will take a LONG time for me to summon. But like hell I'm passing up the option to have a dragon in my army

>Adamantine Golem (1)

Now we're getting somewhere. A nice shiny giant will impress the masses

>Fairy queen (7 regular GP left now)

Again, holy stuff. Or at least as close as I can get.

>Dwarven Craftsman

>Forest Elf

>Celestial maid

My three freebies from my own power. They take care of the basic upkeep of the society I'll be making. The dwarves are going to be first, to actually build it in the first place, then elves make it so that humans can live there, and finally maids to make it pretty

>Spirit enchanter (6)

And these give me an edge up

>Puff is free

Holy shit he's such a bro! I'd probably pick him even if he wasn't free. I'll make him a sweet-ass lair and probably bury the core under it. He can hang out with heroes all he wants, I might even join in. The two of us can also fuck dragons together, it'll be loads of fun

>Luxuries

>Talisman of warding

>Interference Crystal

>False core

I'm using up my freebies of course, but I'm not particularly attached to other options enough to actually spend points

>Gadresh

Seems like a fun place. I can probably take over a frontier village pretty easily and gain a handful of followers by protecting it from monsters. It worked well enough for Momonga if nothing else, and should get me a good enough start for my orb's power supply

Looks like I have 6 Global left, and if I felt like it I could use them to amp my raw stats, but I'm not sure how much that's worth going into debt for (I realize that these points are things she's given to me, but you're still expected to pay her back 3x. As it stands me having used 4 points=120 years to repay her). If there's any way to increase my stats on my own I'd like to do that instead, but if I'm otherwise stuck with being inferior to heroes in every way possible it may be worth putting some into attack power or something.

>>11397

You should reconsider your debt. 120 years to pay it off, OR you could wait 10-40 years to pick up a few of the last choices. I mean do you really need Minotaur manticore red dragon AND adamantine golem all in your first years? Is Extra HP really worth 60 years of debt when you respawn 24 hours after you are killed and only your Guardian stands a chance against heroes anyway?

Personally, the only things I would consider taking debt for is an extra Servant or an extra Guardian. Servants make a great bang for your buck, and you can actually afford to summon them in a reasonable time frame. Two guardians fighting together would have a pretty good chance of overcoming nearly any hero, it's expensive but it might just be worth it.

>Mutations

Tail, claws, fangs, horns.

>Powers

Shapeshifting, venom, restoration, magic eye, silver tongue, contract magic, elemental, sex magic.

>DUP generation

Emotion

>Minions (Monster spec)

Death worm, imp, minotaur, manticore, witch, red dragon.

>Servants

Dwarven craftsman, danuki merchant, forest elf.

>Core guardian

Puff

>Creation powers

Interference crystal, practice arena, lesser demon core, luxuries.

>Drawbacks

Weakness

>Starting location

Batrela

Ok, so. My strategy is as follows.

Starting in Batrela for a few reasons, but number one is that is is probably the least pious area and therefore the gods should not be able to quickly convince the humans there to attack me.

Going with emotional feeding because I'm assuming a nation like that will be rife with semi-strong/powerful emotions on a regular basis, as well as offer me a few opportunities to intentionally generate more of it (more on this later).

Mutation and power-wise I got all the things that work with venom because I am planning on maxing my combat speed before any other stat (someone that hits harder then your defence will be less of an issue if you can avoid getting hit) and I don't need to hit as hard if I'm able to land that poison hit. Poison probably won't be able to take down a hero, but I don't plan on personally fighting heroes for a while if I can avoid it. Horns are taken for intimidation and for looking good for my minions.

Elemental magic is taken for flight for more mobility and also ranged attack/control options when melee is not the best idea.

Magic eye to be able to determine the best course of action when going up against an enemy and to prevent getting fooled by illusions and other magics (ergo more evasion capability).

Shapeshifting to hide my monster features and to disguise myself. Now for the fun part, it combos with silver tongue, contract magic and sex magic to allow me to do a number of things.

I will use these things to sneak into human settlements and aquire information, recruit allies and create rumors. Restoration is also useful because I can use it as a barganing chip when I'm trying to get someone to sign my contract or revive/heal someone to make them owe me a favor (reviving/curing someone should also produce quite powerful emotions from said individual and their loved ones, yum).

I'm going to have my elves make potions and delisious fruit, my dwarves craft high quality stuff (I'll use my creation skill when I can to make more material for them), my creation power to make luxuries, and bottle Puff's breath. Then I will have my danuki merchants sell all the above partly to turn a profit but mainly to create more strong emotions (drugs in particular should be good for this purpose, especially in a pirate nation).

I will not just use my sex magic for seduction/persuasion, but also for personal enjoyment that comes with an extra benifit.

Rescue women who are in some sort of trouble (slavery, shipwrecked, starvation, maybe travel to other nations like Maloris and save someone from a fate of torture and death, or Omeron and save someone who is low caste from a life of misery), provide a home for them filled with luxuries created by my powers, food grown by the elves and potions of eternal youth. Then ask them to sign a contract to become members of my harem.

They will serve as a source of pleasure while also feeding my demon core with powerful emotions, but they will also serve as my mental healing so that I can get through the aeons with my sanity intact.

I might also use it to make withes and dragons with the respawn ability happy.

Or my servants to keep them motivated to work well.

You may have figured out that my early game is focused on power farming DPU, and that's why I took weakness. It is so that I only need to wait 1 decade to get 3 spare GP and use them to aquire a second source of demon energy: Death.

Why death? Because in a nation like this people get killed on the streets at a slightly higher rate then a more ordered nation, as well as people who drown when ships hit the cliffs and break. I can feed of that without needing to do any killing myself (witches will play a role in this, more on that later).

That is not to say I won't kill anyone though. I can have my minions or contracted people instigate fights (for emotions and potential death) and then come in and heal/revive those affected (while in disguise) for more emotion farming. This can also be used as a means to curry favor with certain people, potentially making it easier to talk them into signing a contract.

I can also kidnap people I really don't like and kill them in my base (after some tormenting to feed on fear for a bit). Then, assuming this works as I think it does, revive them with resurrection and get another death out of them. If that doesn't work I can at least farm some more strong emotions from them.

This would be reserved for people whom I deem to be truly evil. I may be a bad guy in everyone's eyes thanks to the gods and I sort of have to come to terms with that and act like it, but I'm not gonna be a total dick about it.

As for minions, death worms can swim so having a swarm of these in already dangerous waters will be useful. I will make a lesser demon core as soon as I can because it takes 8 months for it to pay back it's cost and from then on it's a net gain to have it mass producing death worms and imps. Imps get better when there is a lot of them and fire is a huge hazard to ships. I might make a few more lesser cores down the line as well as unlock plaguebearers to scout my domains, but that's for later.

Minotaurs will be my base level enforcers and I will equip them with gear crafted by my dwarves and have them train in the practice arena. Later on I plan on unlocking spirit enchanter and have them enchant the mino's gear.

The practice arena will also provide other minions with training down the line.

Manticores will be the shock troopers and do guard duty for important things. Witches are also good for scouting and to help prevent my troops from falling for illusions while providing ranged support with more firepower then imps.

Their portal will also be put to great use. For example, I can have them travel to Gadresh and open a portal near a village that is about to be attacked or a skirmish between humans and orcs in order to be able to move my demon core there and have it feed on all the deaths (if I can't move the core through the portal I can move myself and then use my summon demon core skill).

The same thing can also be done in Edeomea when there is an ongoing invasion from Maloris for a feast of death and strong emotions.

Lastly red dragons because I like dragons, they are great for fighting but also for intimidation, and I want Puff to have some company over the ages.

I will build several bases, not just on different islands but also in other nations once I have enough witches to be able to move between them as I please using their portals, and cover the area around them with interference crystals, then move randomly between bases regularly to make it harder to pinpoint my core's location. Will definitively pick up alarm creation once I go down this route, maybe also false demon core if certain people are really persistent in tracking me.

Later on I plan on paying Anastasia a point to revert the weakness drawback, unlock all the servants and more minions, prioritising plaguebearer (for keeping an eye on things), banshee for crowd control, preventing my enemies from swarming me with weak opponents, and fairy queen to help keep my minions alive and provide valuable support magic in fights.

After that focus on combat capable minions, however at some point when I'm in a stable position, I will save up 4 GP and get a second core guardian, Emilia.

This will be better for keeping my core safe then boosting my own stats (which I will get to eventually after a lot of years, it's not a high priority since I respawn if I die but the core doesn't).

I take Emilia because with her fog form she can easily sneak up on people while Puff distracts them, her stat total is high, her debiliate skill is very useful and by the time I summon her I will have the means to keep her happy. Furniture, food, jewelry, servants, blood, my own blood and, if she requests it, my sexual services.

Her sadistic nature will also be excellent for extracting strong emotions from my enemies (mainly fear and pain).

From that point it is just about farming GP to unlock the remaining minions (and set up more lesser cores to generate tier one hordes), abilities and my own stats in whatever order seems most useful. Will probably make sure I complete the demonic scholar, succubus and strangler combo to control the human population around my bases as much as possible, both to keep track of important things and to generate more deliscious emotions.

>Mutations

All of them, let's rock and roll. Unless the claws mean I don't have any fingers, in which case don't get claws.

>Global points

I won't be needing any of them, being in debt is for suckers.

>Powers

Regeneration, Magic Eye

and the remaining 6 points to put evenly in my stats, except special.

>Energy generation

Automatic

>Minions

Undead specialization

Skeletons and Liches.

Don't need the rest

>Servants

Dwarf, 3 times.

>Core Guardian

I don't want any of them

>Creation powers

Lesser Cores, Interference crystal, Alarm, Talisman of Warding

>Location

Maloris

So yeah, my strategy will be to first make interference crystals.

A lot of them. With my energy production, that's roughly 1 every 2 days. Then, I will ward the place. Then, I will just cheese it, by making additional cores for DPU generation, adding lots more crystals and warding.

So, basically, I am hiding in a snowy land, where nobody lives, have shitton of magic warding to hide me from the gods, magic eye to warn me of any attempts to find me, and just wait a while, generating energy. Basically, this is a loophole, that will allow me infinite energy and infinite minions, without even being spotted. Every decade I even get a demon point I can use to get stronger.

My Liches will write cool plays, and Skeletons will learn to perform. Then, I will have them all outfitted in custom armor made by my dorfs, and they will tour the world, conquering it with great plays and dancing. I myself will spend the time digging a huge fuck-all dungeon, fully warded and interfered, to house all my infinite skeletons and additional cores.

>>11403

Lesser Demon Cores don't generate energy you can use, they just mindlessly summon tier 1 minions. They are great if you just want a huge army of skeletons but otherwise they won't help you with that "infinite energy"

>>11404

Really? Oh well, that's a bummer. It does mean infinite skeletons, though. I will need one Inteference crystal per additional core, to hide it.

So, to make a working pair of skeleton-production, that is roughly 22 days. And for every day in those 22 days, I will get 22 skeletons for each of the core/crystal pairs I already own. So, there's roughly 16 22-day parts in a year, meaning that in a year I will get 365 skeletons from one core, 343 skeletons from the second core, etc. repeated 14 more times, each with 22 skeletons less, roughly giving me about 400 skeletons first year, and only increasing from there. Given that Demon Lords tend to sleep for millennia, this really fucking adds up. With a rate of 16.5 cores per year, in 10 years I will have 165 skeletons per day, in addition to all those spawned during those 10 years. And in a 100 years, I will 1650 skeletons per day, all entirely hidden by the ungodly amount of interference crystals.

I guess I'll just make a sea of skeletons. Skeletons standing outside, getting covered with snow, and more skeletons piling on top.

When the heroes arrive, 300 years later, and face my fortress, THE GROUND IS ENTIRELY SKELETONS FOR SEVERAL HUNDRED METERS DOWN. AND THEN, THE FORTRESS IS SKELETONS AS WELL. AND AS THEY RETREAT FROM THE BONY WAVE TO THE NEAREST MOUNTAIN, THAT IS NOT ON ANY MAPS, IT STARTS TO SHAKE.

ALL

SKELETONS

Not to mention that 300 years = 30 points, and that is just fucking insane stats and further powers wise.

This whole hiding strategy with magical defense is basically unbeatable. Especially, if you dig down, and put interference crystals in there. How often do gods scry the underground of remote areas? By the time they figure it out, I'll be unstoppable.

>>11405

And that doesn't even take into account using one crystal to hide several additional cores! If I honeycomb it, I'd be up to 20 new cores a year. Insanity

>>11405

I heard the author describe the gods ability to see you like "looking out the window to see someone walking past". They "aren't omniscient", but they see you if they decide to look. He didn't say anything about whether being underground or having scrying protection would help with that.

The thing about interference crystals is when someone tries to scry an area and gets interference, they's kind of a dead giveaway that there's something there. It's still better than nothing (hopefully they don't see the interference unless they look directly at it), but the best way to hide is to scatter the crystals everywhere.

>>11408

You DO realize that sealing yourself of deep underground in a wasteland runs a pretty high risk of falling under the "unreasonable" category don't you?

And if what you do gets deemed unreasonable, the gods don't have restrictions on fucking you over, and then you are boned.

>>11409

Nah it's fine. I had a similar idea of burying myself in the deep wilderness and playing dwarf fortress until my powers mature. The author didn't see any problem with it.

As far as logically, it's not impossible to find, just difficult. It's also not some crazy tedium bullshit, although the skeletons in his build might be. Keep in mind that the "door puzzle" example basically amounts to a giant combination lock. It's impossible to solve in a reasonable time frame (a human life, possibly even "lifetime of the planet" if it's big enough). Digging isn't very hard when the heroes have potential access to Earth elemental magic, so it's just a matter of finding the place.

>>11409

What are you on about, building a huge fucking dungeon and amassing power for hundreds of years is textbook demon lord behavior.

The only unorthodox thing is that I don't have a huge fucking castle, but that's, uknow, not really unreasonable.

>>11411

I don't know about you, but the catch is the Demon Lord usually builds above ground. He's not trying to hide, though he might be amassing power in the wild lands where no human dares tread. Personally I'm buried deep underground and intent on hiding every last trace of my existence, even if it means slower growth, so that is a little different.

>>11412

Well, we're the new wave of completely asshole narrative-abusing demon lords, who don't play by the rules. If we were like the rest of the demon lords, we'd just get fucked up again and again, with the only successful demon lord type being a hot anime grill with horns that blows hero dick.

That's our greatest advantage: the gods just don't expect the level of narrative awareness, and will be caught completely off-guard by economic skeleton attacks or secret forging of technology. Especially if we play it smart, and when we make guns, we also add some magic in there, to make it seem like our guns are magic-powered.

Or even better, indeed have them magic-powered by tiny explosions. It's magic, so it's fair game.

I wonder if I can build Deeprot to shitpost on /cyoa/ as I waste decades gathering energy.

>>11413

You've got dorfs, you've got earth, just play dwarf fortress.

>>11413

If you advance the tech level that too runs a pretty high risk of getting you punished.

Anastacia even implies that doing a tech revolution is a bad idea.

And I highly dought trying to disguise your guns as wands will work, that will just runs a pretty high risk of the gods feeling like you are making fun of them. Which also happens to be a good way to set yourself in their corsshairs.

On a different note, why the lean towards "bury underground for centuries" strategies?

Not only is that slow as a snail to advance, it's also by far the most boring life you can possibly have.

I don't think you properly appreciate the mentail strain that would cause. after aeons, and you're no good if your attic is full of moth balls.

>>11415

Who says you'll have to stay underground? Just summon a lich, and tell him to wake up every 22 days and make a new core. Or hell, have one of those core guardians do the bitch work for you, not like they can leave.

Meanwhile, you can fuck around the world, do whatever, attend plays, argue about finer points of magic with wizards, or just come to some random village, find the pluckiest little boy with dead parents, and become his father figure.

And if your skeletons posted in a huge circle buried in the snow around your base send you an alarm, just kill yourself, and reincarnate inside your fortress.

Also, a skeleton equals a normal human roughly, a hero outclasses them in basically every stat by 256 times. It's pretty easy for a hero to plow through skeletons en mass and spearhead a human army.

>>11419

Reading comprehension, mate. I will use my skeletons to provide free manual labor to countries, draining them economically.

Of course the gods will try to interfere, but within one generation I will have the entire population basically dependent on my skeletons.

>>11420

You assume FAAAAAAR to much.

Human reaction upon seeing skeleton hordes is to either run for the hills or issue the call to arms.

There is no way they will ever accept "skeleton labor" as a thing, ESPECIALLY in Maloris.

All you will do is sit on your ass for centuries, draw the hostile attention of everyone around you once you reveal yourself, lose your skeletons once you get serious pushback and then what?

You are boned because your energy generation is far to slow to rebuild before you get crushed. You didn't even get a core guardian making you doubly boned.

PS. Warding can hide you from humans, it can not hide you from gods. They know you are there.

>>11422

Did you even read the description?

Maloris is the single most pius nation in the world. The church IS the goverment.

Any magic that is not of divine origin is evil, people who go against the church are killed, crusaders are considered honorable.

As soon as something happens to the northgoing caravans they will send people to investigate, and there is not a chance that people will defend skeletons in the face of knights from the church.

Hell, the villagers will probably fight the skeletons themselves or flee. Living your life dependant on skeletons is utterly unthinkable for people in such a nation (and even if it was a normal nation, I sure as shit wouldn't want skeletons anywhere near me).

Besides, you severely underestimate people's resourcefulness when it comes to survival. If there is any other option then depending on clearly evin creatures (and there is) they will take it.

Finally, even if a village turned on the knights they would not win.

Small civilian mods don't win against organized military.

Especially not if it's lead by a hero that can't even be injured by a normal human or a skeleton no matter how many there are.

>>11423

I will not bring out skeletons just willy-nilly, duh. I'll have them covered in cloth, at first, to seem like weird humans. Maybe have a Lich or two in disguise as well, that can bullshit his way to villagers, something like "We come from far north, and we are honorbound by ancient treaties to help you". Maybe even pull something like "we are your ancestors, come to help even in death".

And there's no description saying that fucking villagers get innate sense of what is evil, especially if they are under a crushing theocracy. And even if they do, if all the game in the land was suddenly gone (absolutely nothing to do with skeletons lying buried in snow for weeks until they can snatch something), and in the middle of the winter, they'd cave in.

As for caravans, I'll just have my Liches raise some wolves, and have them attack the caravans. Undead wolf bites show up same as living wolf bites, so no suspicion there. At worst, there will be a very very annoyed crusade rummaging around between south and north, looking for a werewolf or something. If they start guarding caravans, the solution is just even more zombie/skeleton wolves.

>Finally, even if a village turned on the knights they would not win.

That's the point. They just have to turn on them, and get slaughtered. See how long they can keep their pious facade when they have to put down entire villages.

Hell, even if they do genocide entire north, that basically gives me a huge buffer zone of unpassable winter to work with.

Hell, I could even have skeletons make huge underground tunnels into the ocean, have them walk into other countries on the seafloor, and pull same shit there.

>>11370

>>11408

I don't know about your plans to wall yourselves off underground. It seems like it would be a violation of the rules (Example 1 and 2) of the last page >>11383

Technically neither of those examples are 'impossible' either, but they're 'unreasonable' and may be 'impossible' to tunnel through within the lifespan of the hero.

>>11403

I think you're underestimating the heroes. They're may have some kind of powerful abilities like you. What would you do if one of them had a wide area holy aura that harms undead?

Emilia would help you out with heroes and she's free if you're going the undead route. Take debilitate and the two of you would have a stacking debilitate. You could drop the heroes stats from 8-10 to 6-8, then watch Emilia crush them. I guess you'd have to take luxuries and maids to keep her happy but that's kind of a small price to pay for an anti-hero weapon.

You only need to buy dwarves once to unlock the servant type. When you've unlocked the type you can summon as many dwarves as you want.

>>11425

Tunneling underground is neither unreasonable nor impossible while earth elemental magic exists. The hero could reach me in less than a day (plus surface travel time), he just needs to know where to find me.

>>11383

>The gods of your new world are preventing the advancement of humanity so that they can continue enjoying their fantasy world sandbox

Plot twist:

The gods are people from another fantasy cyoa.

>>11429

The heroes are probably also just random dipshits isekai'd into the world with the task to "kill the demon lord".

>>11397

You're the first person to suggest using manticores as battle mounts. That would totally work. Now I have the image of a minotaur in shiny armor riding on top of a manticore, lol.

>>11397

>>11400

>>11427

Puff seems like the popular choice in here. I can't say I'm surprised. He was the clear winner in /tg/ too.

>>11425

>What would you do if one of them had a wide area holy aura that harms undead?

Goddamnit, stop thinking with the "who got the biggest number" mindset. My goal is not to fight the hero, my goal is to have them become obsolete. Hero cannot be everywhere in the world at once, and my skeletons can. If he does come and mass-destroy them, he leaves a skeleton-labor dependent city forced to work by itself again. What's the hero going to do as the cityfolk start insulting him and throwing rocks - kill them all? Hell, the heroes are generally stupid, one may even join me!

>Emilia would help you out with heroes and she's free if you're going the undead route.

She's also a massive bitch, and I am not about to play babysitter for a spoiled shit.

>>11425

>You only need to buy dwarves once to unlock the servant type. When you've unlocked the type you can summon as many dwarves as you want.

Well, the rest are absolutely fucking disgusting, and I don't want any of them.

Thesse glorious builds are making hard

>>11435

*me

>>11433

Ok now I am utterly convinced that not only do you not understand the source material, you have a severe lack of understanding about how people think and act.

The more I read of your comments, the more nonsense I see.

EVERYONE will automatically assume skeletons are evil when they see them, by default (especially in a religious nation that considers everything that doesn't come from their god to be evil).

Ffs goblins are killed on sight in a far less pius nation then this and skeletons are obvoiously unnatural.

Purging entire villages is not a problem, as historically far worse have been done IRL. The people who live there KNOW this and will either kill the skeletons themselves or flee until they find soldiers and say "help us our village is being infiltrated by evil".

The same will happen literally everywhere.

No one will ever want to be dependant on what is obviously servants of evil brought about by dark magic.

They will all assume (correctly so) that it is an evil entity that is trying to infiltrate or occupy their settlement.

Also no hero will join you since they are quite literally children of the gods (demi-gods remember?)

Also, tough shit but not fighting the heroes is not an option.

Since you have nothing beyond base minions you can't win a real war, especially with the slow army building you got.

Once you take a big loss (which will happen automatically if a hero is involved) you won't be able to rebuild properly.

All of this is assuming that your hiding underground wont just be considered a rule violation in which case the gods no longer need to make humans fight you, they just come down and personally end you.

Or that you won't just go senile sitting in a cave for ages with no mental stimuli (which will happen, belive me. I've seen it happen in less then 5 years in some people).

Also your remark on "not wanting to babysit" core guardians clearly demonstrates that you do not understand what it means to be a ruler. You will have to deal with people you don't agree with on a regular basis and do things you don't enjoy doing.

If you don't even understand such a basic principle, how do you expect to win over any humans in general?

>>11432

To be honest, I like Puff but he's not actually the main reason I picked monster spec.

It was to get all 4 monster minions, because I can do a lot with them, and to maximise how many minion types I start with.

Also, since I have him it will be slightly easier to convinve Emilia to do field duty.

When you can add the argument that the core won't be unprotected even if she leaves for a short while she would feel better about it I think. Especially if you make her task sound like a thrilling hunt (to stimulate her instincts).

>>11446

Yeah, but that takes a lot of cloth. Looks like ten times a normal outfit. Where are you going to get all that for an entire worldwide army of skelebros?

>>11447

Well, first, I won't need an entire army worth of disguises, that's only for step one trust gaining. Eventually, villagers will learn the secret. Select ones at first, and then more and more.

Second, gee, I do not know, if only I had some way to CREATE ENTIRE GODDAMN CUBIC METERS WORTH OF CLOTH OUT OF THIN AIR.

OH WAIT, I DO.

Also, what's exactly stopping me from simply conjuring up 1 cubic meter of enriched Uranium, again? Even gods won't be able to stand up to that kind of power.

>>11448

Good explanation, but

>one cubic meter of radioactive metal

>Even gods won't be able to stand up to that kind of power.

Can't they create universes and shit? Your cubic meter of uranium is nothing compared to a being that can kick you into another dimension.

>>11449

Well, I'm pretty sure nuclear weaponry that turns their precious little sandbox into an irradiated wasteland would surely upset them a whole bunch. Especially if you learn the same dimensions-hopping trick, simply popping out, immediately nuking the fucking place into oblivion, and popping into the next one.

>>11450

Let's actually calculate it.

>Uranium – 18.8 x 10^3 kg/m3

So for each m3 of Uranium I create, that is 18800 kg of Uranium. Critical mass for Uranium is 52kg, meaning I only need 52kg to make a blast. And I can make 188000 kg. Instantaneously. Possibly even more, for the wording is vague on this.

And what if I make super-dense Uranium, only reachable by magic? That's a world-ender right there.

>>11451

Ooh, ooh, and don't forget the possibility of making super pressurized chamber first. It doesn't say anything about me actually seeing/touching the area to make stuff, and that m3 of Uranium will now explode even harder.

And what I use Californium-252, that has critical mass of 2.73 kg?

Also, if I can make fucking cubic meters worth of stuff, what if I make shitton of gold, platinum, and other valuable stuff, effectively crashing the economy? Damn, this ability just gets worse and worse the more I think about it.

>>11452

And a god could turn your precious uranium into wood. Or it could just leave to another universe. You overestimate your power, a god could wipe you out if he wanted to. You need to be smarter than just throwing a-bombs at a god.

>>11453

A god would notice and wipe you out of history. You'd need to wait.

>>11454

If he's a hero worth his salt he'll have something that blocks magic.

>>11455

>And a god could turn your precious uranium into wood

He wouldn't have time to do it, it'd blow up the moment it appeared. I mean, I'd die as well, but I get to reincarnate half the world away.

>A god would notice and wipe you out of history. You'd need to wait.

Well, there's smarter uses of it, such as miners of one nation running into a suspiciously rich vein. Then the humans would crash the economy by themselves.

>If he's a hero worth his salt he'll have something that blocks magic.

Okay, but what if I do it like this - I create nanotubes, that hang in the air, invisible. Hero walks in, shouts his speech at me, while inhaling them, not feeling the nano-sized strands now inside him. And then I start creating stuff inside nanotubes, stretching them out. Technically, it wouldn't even touch the hero's anti-magic field.

>>11448

You can only create a cubic meter of titanium, obsidian, granite, sand, fertile dirt, or water at first. "Over time" you will eventually be able to create nearly any substance, but that could be a very long time given the scale of things. By the time you can create something like uranium the hero games could have already concluded for you.

>>11456

Dude just stop before you embarrass yourself further. If you ever made an a-bomb it would be a pretty huge rule violation. So would naotubes and anything resembling them.

I honestly can't think of a better way to get gods that are normally at odds with each other to unite against you.

Also you massively overestimate a-bombs if you think they will kill a god (how you can think a god won't have the ability to respawn is beyond me), although pretty much most people do this and it's modern media's fault mainly (a good example is how movies depict nukes in space. In reality nuke explosions are pathetic in space compeared to in-atmosphere explosions).

As for disguising skeletons, I dought that will hold up long and once someone figures it out the jig is up.

Also, people get sucpicious as all fuck against those who claim to want to do them favors without asking for compensation, no matter if they are human or otherwise. This is part of basic human nature.

I'm pretty damn sure you can't create stuff inside living things (or at any sort of distance away from you for that matter) and I have no idea why you think inhaling something would change that.

Heroes have full negative status immunity just like you so you can't make them sick or poison them (this includes radiation).

They also wield magic of the highest order so I think they will notice when people cast spells.

Economic crashes has always happened and will always continue to happen all on their own. Guess what? The market recovers.

Planning on controlling the market and make war "unneeded" is so naive it makes me wonder if you've even read (or for that matter, understood) any history.

Conflict is something that is impossible to erradicate from the world (only crazy fantastical sci-fi scenarios that are totally unrealistic could hope to do that).

Even more so when you have a god making sure that war will be waged against you.

Not fighting is NOT an option, and you got nothing that will allow you to put up any sort of fight. Playing as a pacifict just signs your death warrant.

PS. They WILL call bullshit on you as soon as you make your core unreasonable to reach (or think you are making fun of them). Once that happens it's game over.

>>11465

>As for disguising skeletons, I dought that will hold up long and once someone figures it out the jig is up.

Well, it'd only be used in very initial stages, to get low-populated remote areas addicted to skeleton labor. I'm not saying it'd be used all the time.

>Economic crashes has always happened and will always continue to happen all on their own. Guess what? The market recovers.

Yeah, the modern market, not medieval one.

>Planning on controlling the market and make war "unneeded" is so naive it makes me wonder if you've even read (or for that matter, understood) any history.

I'm not making wars "unneeded" or denying human basic nature. I'm waging war, only an economic one.

Also, when in history humans ever got an endless supply of absolutely free labor, that lasts 24/7 and is also disposable, and capable of working in literally deadly conditions? Economy would never recover from that.

>Not fighting is NOT an option, and you got nothing that will allow you to put up any sort of fight. Playing as a pacifict just signs your death warrant.

Again, you misread my posts. I will fight, only later on, when I have an entire country dependent on me. Skeletons will not be used for fighting, humans will.

>S. They WILL call bullshit on you as soon as you make your core unreasonable to reach

Why do you keep saying that? In the CYOA it says I am a small fry, that will basically be ignored, at least at start. Nowhere does it say anything about making my core unreachable. It says - triggering cultural or technological advances, and if I just stay hidden, nobody will come after me, especially if getting to me is such a pain in the ass

>>11465

Actually no, advanced technology isn't against the rules. It pisses off the gods in such a way that they would do everything they could to get rid of you, maybe even working together, but it's 100% inside the rules.

Also, the CYOA does NOT state heroes have negative status immunity. I assumed that myself because if I'm immune, my guardian is immune, and all my best minions are immune it seems like it would only be fair if the hero were immune. However, it was pointed out to me that this is often the case in videogames where all the bosses are immune to all the useful status effects, but the players never are.

>>11476

There are RPGs where the players can become immune to status effects, but this is more of an Isekai LN type of thing anyway. The hero is a weapon sent by the gods to challenge and defeat the demon lord. Heroes are literal demigods in this. They are powered by godly energy. I would plan around them being immune to status effects, because they almost certainly are.

>>11479

It's not a bad assumption, it's just not directly supported by the CYOA. One wonders why Debilitate would even exist though, especially on a Guardian.

>>11480

The description for stone gaze states that those who are immune to negative status effects can resist it. The description for dominate states that the very strong may resist it. So the hero will likely resist both of those.

The description for debilitate notes no ability to resist it at all. It was confirmed to work on everything in /tg/, It's the best anti-hero ability there is.

>>11381

I guess I'll do a more "open" build this time

>Mutations

Claws, Horns, Tail, Wings

>Powers and abilities

Shapeshifting, Elemental, Space, Debilitate, Contract Magic, Scrying, Silver Tongue, Sex Magic

>DPU Generation

Life

>Minions (undead spec)

Skeleton Warrior, Lich, Succubus, Red Dragon, Fairy Queen

>Servants -3 global

All

>Guardians -6 global

Emilia, Shiro, Puff

>Creation Powers -1 global

Luxuries, Talisman of Warding, Interference Crystal, Alarm, Practice Arena

>Location

Gadresh

10 points of debt, no stat upgrades this time, but I have 3 Guardians. Emilia has her stacking Debilitate, Shiro has Restoration demon lord magic meaning she has the Resurrect spell among others, Puff is just puff. I wanted a third Guardian and he doesn't cause any problems. Alice unfortunately dispels all magic in her vicinity, which means that she would cure the debilitate effect, otherwise I'd use her.

Shiro is probably the toughest to manage of the three. I'll want to reign in Emilia's blood lust a bit but I think that's manageable, I don't see ever really getting Shiro to stop with the pranks.

I feel pretty much invincible with my 3 guardians + debilitate, so I'll be operating pretty openly. My base will be directly under the capital and not at all hidden, generating as much life energy as possible, and I'll be sending out red dragons to cull the monster problems, ideally with coordination from the adventurer's guild. The skeletons are taking a page out of skelebro's build for free labor, but I'm not going to be using those in the city. They are good for very simple digging and hauling especially under dwarf supervision.

Liches are mainly for their ability to reanimate heroes. First encounter I try to talk them down, failing that we fight and kill them. Then I get Shiro to resurrect the hero to offer them a second chance (with contract magic this time). If they still won't cooperate, I kill them AGAIN and have a lich reanimate them, those who oppose me in life will serve me in death instead.

>>11482

Shit Guardians are 4 points not 3. I guess I'll take 2 points of debt slave then.

>>11482

I think if there's one place in the whole world that would be most likely to eventually accept you it would be Gadresh, so nice choice on the location.

>>11484

And failing that, they probably have the most concentrated population AND I can still help them even if they don't want me to.

>>11468

Jesus christ read your history. Market crashes has been happening since forever.

On wikipedia alone there is a list of market crashes going back as far as 1623, but I guarantie that it's been happening for as long as economic systems have been a thing. It is a natural cycle for any economy.

And you don't seem to understand what "not an options" means. The fight will come to you wether you want it to or not.

And you think that even if you do manage to complete your plan and have humans fight for you, that will somehow work?

Humans can't even hurt a hero because his defensive stats vastly exedes their offensive ability (and he more then likely has regeneration/self healing capabilities as well).

>Nowhere does it say anything about making my core unreachable.

Literally explained in the rule list: Making your demon core unreachable or unreasonably hard to reach is not ok (example 1,2 and 3).

>>11488

"Unreasonably hard" in this case is a combination lock hundreds of digits long (each digit being represented by a door). Brute forcing that sort of "puzzle" would require eons. I don't get why he said 10000 breakable obstructions isn't ok, but it is pretty asinine

>>11491

You only get the Core guardian matching your Specialty for free, that's Shiro for Nature. If you want Emilia, you either have to spend 4 general points to buy her in addition to Shiro, or switch to Undead Spec

>>11492

Thanks, I missed that detail. A Shiro is fine too, since her astral projection and dream manipulation are just more tools in a spymaster's arsenal.

As you can see I've avoided buying any extra points. Debt-free means no worries.

>>11493

Sadly I think you'll be crushed by the first murderhobo hero who comes your way, but good luck.

>>11488

>Jesus christ read your history. Market crashes has been happening since forever.

Dude. Skeleton labor is essentially full automation, only even scarier. There's no need to work the fields, the skeletons do it all. There's no need to go to mines or craft things, skeletons do it all. If some human does reach height of his craft, he stays on this earth forever, resurrected by Liches. And if machines need to be built, powered, and are specialized, skeletons can do whatever humans can, only tirelessly and in any conditions.

Skeleton labor won't just cause a market crash - it will demolish the fucking market entirely. Why trade, when skeletons make everything at home? Exotic spices? Skeletons tirelessly walk bringing new shipments. There's no reason to do anything, no reason to produce anything, every human will be effectively given all luxuries they could desire. Money becomes ultimately worthless, because skeletons produce everything.

This isn't a mere market crash, this is an entire fucking economical collapse. How the fuck will they recover from this? And being in medieval times, it makes it even worse. Just 1 year of vacation will make damn sure peasants would rather die than go back to back-breaking labor ever again.

And religion won't save them either. Look at history, the moment industrialization hit, religion started to kinda wane down, because people had more free time and less hunger. Decadence and spoiling will corrupt and destroy even the most theological of societies, eroding them into decadence. Google "Behavioral Sink". With unlimited resources, no human society would stand, and the worst part is that humans WANT unlimited resources, and would go out of their way to get them.

>>11495

I don't think the skeletons can do any skilled labor. Maybe work the fields and the mines, but only under supervision. They can't think for themselves and the only skill they have is fighting.

As for lich reanimation, while that probably does retain any skills it had in life, it loses all free will. Nobody is going to want you to do that to them and it's pretty evil to force it.

>>11497

>I don't think the skeletons can do any skilled labor.

>They can't think for themselves and the only skill they have is fighting.

Fighting is much more complicated than any labor, really. In a fight, you have to constantly use all your senses, predict enemy movements, and move your body in specific ways. If the skeletons are capable of moving and attacking by themselves, then they can make labor.

Even if they can only make rigid movements, that is still effectively self-propelling mechanism at 0 energy cost, giving way to fucking free energy generation. Or hell, you can make machines out of skeletons.

> Nobody is going to want you to do that to them and it's pretty evil to force it.

It's almost like I'm a Demon Lord or something. I'll just have skeletons dig out and replace corpses of skilled craftsmen, by making tunnels from underground, not disturbing the graves. Who the fuck is going to distinguish one rotten skeleton from the other.

>>11495

I tried. Lord knows I tried, but I can't get through to you it seems.

THEY WILL NEVER LET YOU TAKE IT THAT FAR even if you somehow managed to make your idea work!

This would take fucking forever to do and they will just crush you long before that because you got no military power!

Not to mention that this entire idea would piss the gods of something fierce since it ruins the fun they want to have with their sandbox (having wars with a demon lord can still be entertaining even if they don't end up killing him, your scenario taken to it's logical extreme kills all posibility of fun).

So even those who normally hate each other would likely ally just to get rid of you (kinda like how in a game you would call a truce with your enemy to get rid of that one guy that ruins everyone's fun).

Also this is a world with religions around a pantheon that actually exist and who's existence is provable and has direct effects on the world.

This is not "fairy tales concocted by people who wants to control the masses" VS "enlightenment and science", so the comparison to earth doesn't work.

>>11491

Maloris - Burning innocent people for being born with magic, destroying knowledge, terrorizing their own people

Omeron - Authoritarian caste system that empowers nobles and enslaves the lowest caste

Batrela - Literally filled with murderers and thieves

There are so many places that need my demonic touch. I seriously can't decide which one I hate the most. Omeron is definitely up there though.

>>11494

Eh, just having Shiro gives them a good 50/50 chance of winning the first hero encounter. If the demon lord and fairy queens continuously heal Shiro in the boss room her chances of winning go up. If the demon lord uses magic eye to dispel any magical buffs on the hero and interrupt the hero's attempt to use magic Shiro's chances go up. Debt free builds pretty much just have to last for 40 years (2 hero terms). At that point they can buy a second core guardian and be much safer. Emilia would really help. I think they have a decent chance of surviving.

>>11499

Why do you keep saying that? Nowhere in CYOA it says "The gods will know of all your plans in advance, spy on you 24/7, will unite at first opportunity, and constantly send heroes to fuck with you."

You speak about gods with such confidence, as if you know them each personally. You made an assumption, and now you are so dead-set in it, you use it as your main argument. Even if you made the damn CYOA yourself, you're being real anal about the world's interpretation.

Seriously, someone comes up with a plan that doesn't include "My numbers are bigger than their numbers", and you immediately start calling bullshit. Lighten up, CYOAs should encourage creative solutions, not punish them.

>This would take fucking forever to do

No it won't, 10 years and Maloris will already be in a perilous position. Demon lords usually take hundreds of years.

>will just crush you long before that because you got no military power!

I WILL get military power. Human military power. And as for your oh-so-precious heroes, I will attack them mentally, will force them to doubt their gods. I will have entire classroms of children crying as they cling to their now chopped up Lich teachers, I will have scenes set-up with an idyllic society the heroes will hate themselves for ruining. And even if heroes turn out to be complete psychopaths, I can think of many many ways to bullshit my way around their powers, such as secretly making guns or exploiting my Creation powers.

See? For every point you make, I have countermeasures. And in that world, I'll have years and years to plan and scheme. Trust me, I'll do just fine.

>>11517

>Even if you made the damn CYOA yourself…

I've been tied up on /tg/ and reddit answering an exhausting amount of questions about this CYOA for the past few days. So, I haven't been part of this conversation/debate you have been having at all. Also, I usually use my name when posting in this and the "Dawn of the Strongest Mage" threads unless I forget to switch back.

As a general rule I don't like to step in and tell people if I think their builds will or will not work. I didn't critique builds on /tg/ or reddit and I won't do it here either. At this point I think you two should just agree to disagree though.

>>11520

Well, as long as you're having fun. Have at it you two, lol

>>11517

Holy shit. Just, holy shit. They don't need to be mind readers to figure out what the fuck you are doing as it will be very obvious!

And once they do figure out what you are doing you are fucked (just like game admins might not notice you are hacking right away, but once they do you get hit by a permaban. same concept)

And Maloris will never ever accept becoming dependant on undead labor! (I fucking wouldn't and I'm not even religious)

And your human military power is fucking worthless once they bring out the hard hitters!

Creating guns is a rule violation!

Heroes are children of the gods and will do their bidding!

The entire point is that you can't talk or otherwise worm your way out of fighting them.

Besides, destroying a lich teacher that is corrupting the minds of children and save them is a heroic act.

And again, read your damn history. Entire towns getting murdered (or worse) when the walls got breached was something that happened all over IRL.

Hell, when rome defeated carthage they killed almost everyone, sold all the survivors into slavery and spent 17 days systematically burning the city and destroying it completely.

>>11522

>Creating guns is a rule violation!

No it isn't. Absolutely nowhere does it say creating guns (or any sort of advanced tech) is against the rules.

>The entire point is that you can't talk or otherwise worm your way out of fighting them.

Also not true. You CAN use diplomacy on heroes. Granted, skelebro's situation probably won't work as well as he thinks in that context, and it's definitely not EASY, but they aren't mindless drones or fanatics.

>>11522

>They don't need to be mind readers to figure out what the fuck you are doing as it will be very obvious!

At first, it's entirely Maloris' god problem. The other gods will just laugh as Maloris god scrambles to fix an economic situation with violence, in a fight he cannot win.

And after Maloris turns, it'd be too late.

>And Maloris will never ever accept becoming dependant on undead labor!

Yeah they would. If church has to resolve to making examples of, that means there is dissident thinking, and there is nothing that promotes it as much as decadence. They are not a hivemind mang, they are humans, and are as corruptible as the rest.

>And your human military power is fucking worthless once they bring out the hard hitters!

Would it? The point of human military is to make gods seem fucking evil, and me as good. Even if they do slaughter it, I'll just scooby-doo away, and keep spreading dissent against the gods.

>Creating guns is a rule violation!

Well, if the gods start cheating and have all heroes attack me at once, then I don't really care at this point about rules, now do I?

>Heroes are children of the gods and will do their bidding!

Where the hell does it say that?

>The entire point is that you can't talk or otherwise worm your way out of fighting them.

Where does it say that?

>Besides, destroying a lich teacher that is corrupting the minds of children and save them is a heroic act.

But that's the beauty of it, the Lich will be earnestly and properly educating and raising children, so there'd be not even a trace of evil magic involved.

>Entire towns getting murdered (or worse) when the walls got breached was something that happened all over IRL.

Yeah, but we didn't have living gods that want to be seen as good.

>Hell, when rome defeated carthage they killed almost everyone, sold all the survivors into slavery and spent 17 days systematically burning the city and destroying it completely.

I doubt the rest of the gods will allow it.

>>11524

>I doubt the rest of the gods will allow it.

I expect that each of the 5 regions is ruled by one of the 5 gods. If the hero for Maloris slaughtered the people there the other 4 might well be happy with the outcome. Meanwhile the other 4 might not even bother you if you are making enough trouble only for that one god.

>>11525

Exactly.

Like, the Maloris god suddenly starts getting shitton of wood/stone shipment from north, without having to send as much food. The investigation turns up that the labor done may be heretical in nature. So there are the choices the church/god can take:

1)Do nothing, and let the free shit flow in.

2)Come and slaughter all the skeletons, halting their production, and having to force now disgruntled populace back to work. This would spend resources on military action, and have north now be salty about work again.

3)Come and slaughter entire fucking north for heresy, now having nobody to work the woods and quarries.

>>11530

I believe someone in /tg/ suggested a battleship cannon, that outta do it. Of course at that point what you've probably built is a trap and you instead need to contend with superhuman reflexes to avoid getting hit.

>>11531

Something like this would definitely do the trick, but I honestly have no idea how to go about making it. You're right hitting the hero would be hard. I wonder how the gods would respond if you started using technology. If you piss them off enough they could counter you by triggering a technological revolution in their own in their people. Then if/when they deal with you they cause a calamity in the world to knock its people back to the stone ages and reset things back to their fantasy world. They seem just evil enough to do that.

>>11538

you'd think so, but that depends largely on energy transferal, plus the heroes seem to be established with "meat points" so just hitting something vital isn't a guaranteed kill either. A very fast slug will tend to simply penetrate through the target and keep the majority of its energy. It'll put a nice hole in the hero (if it hits), but he might be able to regenerate that. He might also be able to magically deflect it or just get out of the way before it fires. A gun that size is terribly hard to aim.

>>11540

I was thinking you could aim it without even moving the gun itself. The gun could remain completely stationary. You have a witch open a portal to the gun on a wall facing her target. The witch is the one who aims it.

Imagine a witch standing at the end of a long hallway. She opens a portal, the railgun fires, then she flees through the portal and closes it behind her. Then she sets up again on the next hallway.

>Using guns

Pfft, amateurs.

Let's do what Nazis did, and simply Create a bunch of N-stoff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoride

Basically, it's a super fucking flammable substance, that lights on fire even underwater, sticks like Napalm, and burns like a motherfucker.

And to make it more fun, it's also extremely fucking toxic; so even if you manage to get it off you, you're still super-poisoned.

I know heroes are immune to poisons, but this is another fucking level entirely. Just drop the fucking thing on their heads, and watch them get burned to a poisoned crisp.

>>11542

Oh, and it also corrodes FUCKING EVERYTHING, including normally non-corrodible stuff, such as gold and platinum. Even if the hero can survive this, his equipment sure as fuck can't.

>>11524

>Where does it say that?

IN THE FUCKING SOURCE MATERIAL.

The source material that you read but clearly did not understand. The mere fact that you are even asking this question proves as much.

And while we are at it, it is a myth that mass automation will collapse the economy.

I would explain it, but it takes forever and at this point I HIGHLY dought you will understand it, so I'm not feeling very motivated to do so.

You would still get crushed long before you could implement it on the scale you are aiming for though.

>>11594

A "demigod" could be something other than the child of a god, but probably isn't. Doesn't exactly make him right. I've avoided commenting because it is clearly hopeless. Have fun.

>>11598

Emilia seems like the second most popular pick, right behind Puff. I guess a stacking debilitate is hard to pass up.

>the free creation ability: what's the cooldown?

All abilities and spells that don't have a DPU cost use your own personal mana. As a demon lord your mana capacity is huge and you regenerate quickly. So, you can pretty much spam most of your abilities without limit. If there's an exception to that I will have specially noted it in the description of the ability (such as the resurrection function of the restoration ability).

>>11602

Sometimes vampirism is seen as a curse or disease that can be spread, other times it's not. Originally I planned on letting Emilia create lesser vampires, but I decided against it. She's already one of the strongest and most popular core guardians thanks to her high melee stats and ability to weaken heroes. Adding an army of vampires on top of that would unbalance her even further. I'd have to nerf her pretty hard. If/when I update this thing again I may reconsider if I think of a good way to balance it out.

As it is now armies are kind of Elrineth's domain. Elrineth specializes in using underhanded means to enslave people through contract magic. With space magic he can even keep them in his own pocket plane. Over time he may 'collect' a small army of the most elite adventurers. As a core guardian he is the weakest in one on one combat, so his value in the hero games centers around the quality of adventurers he can bring out to fight alongside him.

When I think about it more, it wouldn't be too bad as long as there's no explosive growth. I'll find a way to work lesser vampires into the next update.

>>11604

If it helps for the next update, here are some things I found myself wondering:

Does Alice's anti-magic ability disable Adamantium Golems since they are enchanted?

Does the demon lord count for the practice arena? Will minions be fine fighting the demon lord in it?

>>11638

I think I'd have to say yes to adamantine golems being disabled by Alice, if she activates her ability.

Your minions can fight you anywhere if you give them the command to do so. The same rules that apply to your minions apply to the demon lord in the arena. If you kill one of your minions in the arena it will quickly revive and if you get killed by your minions in the arena you will quickly revive. Thanks for the questions.

Since this is a new CYOA that you are working on I thought I would offer some feedback:

Page 1: Mutations

A good idea requiring mutations. Such restrictions (requirements for potentially negative traits) is useful for pushing the reader into their role. The later introduction of shape-shifting reduces this though. A good selection of traits, If you are interested in adding more:

Unnatural skin colour

Permanent large tattoos

Additional Arms or legs

Unnatural limbs (goat hoofs)

Unnatural eye colour (not everyone wants red, black works too)

Page 1: Free abilities

Some of these are very powerful without well defined limits. Creation, removal, status immunity, summon demon core might be better placed in the Powers and Abilities section or the Creation Powers section . Immortality and sustenance are useful for reinforcing the setting (your life is tied to the core not your physical being). Also it would appear that you are able to physically move the core without the summon demon core ability.

Page 2: Stats

I like how you defined the different stats and their values. It really helps show the reader how powerful you are, your minions are, and the threats are.

Page 2: Powers and Abilities

Good selection again. Some comments though. the shape-shifting trait greatly reduces the impact of the mutations from page 1. It might be better to include something like: "What ever form you use your mutations will still be present with the exception of that your tail, claws, fangs, and wings can retract or extend at will." or "You can only hide your mutations for a short period ( a few hours per day) though as your special stat increases this will improve"

The limits of your abilities are not well laid out. It was stated that it uses you mana but as this stat is not well used it might be better to tie these to DPU.

Page 2: DPU Generation

This selection is surprisingly lacking in creativity and balance. Death is terribly underpowered. The fact that you are restricted to within 10 km of the core means that when your minions are out fighting a nearby kingdom you get nothing. If your plague bearers spread smallpox to all corners of the world, you get nothing.

In comparison Life will give you 10,000 for less having someone living nearby for less than 3 months, you could get 1,000 per hour living near a village of 200, 10,000 per hour for a small city of 2000, and hiding in a city of 100,000 gives half million an hour.

This is exasperated when you realize that utilizing Death is an active collection process (you will need to do something to maximize the nearby death) whereas Life is passive (buy a house in a large city and hide there, you get lots of power).

Automatic is rather weak but useful in the early days before you have set up. Even then 100,000 DPU in the first 4 days is really its only value. After that life and emotion will overtake it.

Emotion is an excellent ability. I allows both passive and active collection. Sit back and do nothing for the low end. Be active (by setting up brothels, torture chambers, terrorize a city) and get the high end.

Some redesign would be needed for DPU generation. Some suggestions would be:

Sacrifice - A person is ritually sacrificed to you - receive between 100,000 to 1,000,000 per sacrifice

Prayer - People worship and pray to you as though you were their god- receive between 1 and 100 per person per hour depending on strength of conviction or activity (actively praying vs passive acceptance)

Tribute - People giving you tribute grants DPU. DPU is determined by either the absolute value of the tribute, or the value of the tribute to the one who gave it up.

Death - For every person that your minions kill or cause the death of you gain 10,000 DPU

Even if you want to keep the current Death option it should be increased to 100,000 DPU to balance with life and emotion

Page 3: Minions

This is very interesting. You seem to have both a large selection and a limited selection. I think this has to do with the fact that most options are generally evil whereas in the previous options there were options that could be considered good (healing). This is particularly bad at tier 1.

Possible additions:

Fairies - Small helpful magic creatures

Pixies - Small magic creatures that like to play pranks

Angelic creatures (angels/Valkyries) - Might not be the best for the going theme

Centaurs

Golems

A problem though. You might need to add some sort of upkeep for minions. Even with Automatic DPU (The weakest) you would get 8,760,000 DPU per year. That is 4380 tier 1's or if you use the lesser cores 17 lesser cores which could pump over 6000 annually. By the end of 10 years of pure lesser core production you would have some 300,000 tier 1's with 175 per day and 60,000 per year.

As discussed above you are interested in adding Vampires to be sired by Emelia. These could be added to the minions section with the new minion type blood:

Tier 1: Ghoul - A failed vampire - Humans who are to weak to take the curse of the vampire can descend into madness seeking out the flesh of the living

Tier 2: Lesser Vampire - The lowest level of vampire, hardly even look human. They seek out the blood of the living and burn in the sun. physically stronger than a human but lack any real magic. If they attempt to spread the curse they can only create ghouls. Humans who are too weak may not even be able to reach that low level and instead die in agony.

Tier 3: Greater Vampire - A step above their weak children. These Vampires could be mistaken for human in low light. In more control of themselves and their desires and can practice some magic. They can sire new lesser vampires, or ghouls, though humans that are to weak may simply die.

Tier 4: True Vampire - Appearing nearly human these creatures of the night can command armies. Their magic includes flight, changing form (bat/mist), dominating weak minds, and more. They can sire Lesser and greater vampires depending on the strength of the human, though the weak will descend to ghouls or simply perish.

As you can see in addition to adding 4 minions, we create a system where vampires can sire new vampires. The restrictions are such: No vampire can sire vampire of equal or greater level than itself (Emelia can sire True Vampires) and the actual level is determined by the strength of the victim. Someone too weak would just die in agony. An average human would be turned into a ghoul. An adventurer could become a lesser vampire. Great adventurers could become greater vampires. Heroes could become True Vampires if turned by Emelia.

Page 4: Servants

This area seems a little like it should be a part of minions, though I do recognize that they are more support and less combat. This is also the area that I personally took the longest time to choose. I like the selection. There were many times I looked back to revise choices. Some comments though. It is stated that you can only wear 1 piece of enchanted equipment at a time, though I feel that this might be a little restrictive, after all what if you want a magic sword and magic shield combo. The traditional view is one per slot though your system might no work well with this.

Suggestions:

Kitsune Assassin

Split the elf between brewing potions and magic plants. Currently this servant is the most powerful because it fills multiple important roles.

Page 4: Core Guardians

I like how the Guardian is selected by your specialization, however since choosing the specialization to choose the guardian is more important than the minions it might be better to place the Core Guardians before the minions section then have the specialization effect the minions. Over all I like the core guardians.

Page 5: Creation powers

This feels like the selection has gone down compared to previous sections. They are nice and the Creation and Destruction options from Free Abilities should be moved here. Possibly also the summon Demon core ability. I dislike the limited number of points for this section but a CYOA is more defined by what the restrictions are then what the freedoms are. Please note, while you have worked hard to prevent feedback loops and exponential growth the lesser core does grant quadratic growth, though only for tier 1 minions.

Page 5: Drawbacks

These work so well for the setting. The whole thing about Anastasia taking a cut works well with the loaned points in the global point reserve. I like these options even if I didn't take any. Future builds might include them.

Page 6: Location

Maloris - Kingdom ruled by the church. Extremely dangerous to try to become established in. However if you are lucky and skilled you could try to take over the church and turn it to your own use. That said, this is still hard mode right here.

Edeomea - Local populous hate you, Maloris will still invade, It is a step up from Maloris but it really is out of the fire and into the frying pan. Only slightly better. In addition since your power is based on being around people living, dieing, or laughing, the lack of a city will stunt your growth.

Omeron - They hate foreigners and immigrants, but if you can find some way for them to accept you as a low level noble then this would be the best place to be. This would be difficult and any lower level would have the state demanding you serve them. Likely high population would be extremely valuable.

Batrela - Pirates. This is probably the best place if you don't want to run the risk of failing to be accepted. There may be no laws to protect you, but there will also be no organized force to kill you for the first few months at least. The lack of population will make things difficult, though if you can find (or make) a cave beneath Batrela or even on the outskirts you should be set.

Gadresh - Adventurer central. This isn't as dangerous as it first seems if you can play nice. Numerous settlements that might be willing to let you set up shop nearby in return for protection. Don't piss off the adventurers guild and they might ignore you. Better yet, send them help in the form of healing potions, equipment, and possibly join an adventuring team yourself. Stay within the law and this could be the beginnings of a grand demon lord empire.

Suggestions: Some additional possible locations

City states - A "kingdom" formed of a series of squabbling city states. When faced by an external threat they will unite. High population, dislike disruptions to the balance of power. Think northern Italy from 1500 to unification.

Noble Kingdom - A kingdom beneath a strong king with a powerful aristocracy. The nobles own vast lands and dislike intruders.

Magocracy - A kingdom ruled by mages

Conclusion:

There is no ability to expand the range of the demon core. this is for gathering DPU, and sustenance. Perhaps give the lesser cores a 100m radius?

>>11661

>Automatic is rather weak but useful in the early days before you have set up. Even then 100,000 DPU in the first 4 days is really its only value. After that life and emotion will overtake it.

The strength of Automatic is that you aren't limited in where you can live. If you want to live in (or under) the mountains or in the middle of the ocean or something you can with Automatic. If you are trying to hide, Life generation narrows down your potential hiding space to a tiny fraction of the world. Also, because Life and Emotion DO drain a small amount of energy from humans, that energy loss might be able to be detected in order to find you, also people might potentially be upset by that fact.

>>11661

I was planning on expanding the mutation section. Thanks for the ideas. I'll likely include gills (underwater breathing), scales, and tentacles as well.

Death is not meant to passively compete with life or emotion in a major city over a long period of time. Death is for a few very specific purposes. It can give you vast amounts of DPU in a very short period of time if you slaughter a town. Alternatively, if you're laying low in the wilderness you can use restoration to resurrect and kill a person repeatedly a few times a day. When used in that way death becomes like a second kind of automatic generation. Granted, this is evil. To effectively use death you more or less have to be evil. I will probably nerf life and emotion a little. They'll still be several times better than automatic when passively draining large numbers of people in cities.

I did consider adding angelic creatures, but it clashed with the theme. Fallen angels are a possibility.

Different tiers of vampires are a good idea. It would prevent the creation of large amounts of truly powerful vampires. Also, I was thinking that when a human is exposed to vampirism they should have several days to get the condition cured before they become a vampire.

Stranglers, skinwalkers, and succubi can all play the role of the assassin, so I'm not too keen on the idea of a kitsune assassin.

>Please note, while you have worked hard to prevent feedback loops and exponential growth the lesser core does grant quadratic growth, though only for tier 1 minions.

I may have gone a bit overboard there. I think the simplest solution would be to limit the maximum number of lesser demon cores that you can have.

>>11671

My current assumption is that "normal" emotions are worth less than 5 DPU per hour and that in order for Emotion to be worth more than Life the most of the people in your radius have to be kept at frequent extremes. To nerf it all you really need to do is be explicit that without your direct input or special circumstances Life will average more.

>>11672

Here's how this works:

Under normal conditions, a healthy, normal person probably only generates 1-2 DPU from emotions. Someone chronically depressed might generate 10 or 20, but they are in the minority and won't bring the average up much. For brief periods that might jump up to 20-40 when something happens that makes him especially angry or happy, but usually that won't last for an hour and might not even be every day, so the average is still well under 5dpu.

In order to bring up Emotional production you need something that affects the whole town for an extended period. A festival might bring up emotions to around 20-30 for a few days from the anticipation and excitement. A Siege or Famine might stress people up to around 40 for an extended period, but if it lasts a long time they'll eventually get numb.

Emotions at 100 level are rare, running for your life might do it. I have a hard time imagining any positive emotion at that level, even if there were something it would probably be in the "too much of a good thing" category.

To get the most out of Emotions you are going to have to use your minions to CONSTANTLY manipulate people, and you still run the risk of them becoming too tired and numb to it to be much use. Because you are using minions it doesn't scale nearly as well as Life, which only requires you find a population, not that you do anything to support it.

>>11677

What if I were to capture wayward adventurers and have a succubus minion induce extreme arousal? How much emotion drain DPU could I expect from that?

>>11679

It's not impossible to keep individuals in the 80-100 range with facilities and personal attention, (though it might be dangerous) but it's very difficult to do on a scale comparable to Life on an entire city.

>>11677

Since emotion generation uses any emotions, good and bad, and 100 is the maximum you can get out of one person then 100 can be assumed to represent multiple emotions running high. Maybe not the likely impossible theoretical max, but some difficult to achieve combination such as intense horror, pain, and desire. That gives a more practical maximum of less than half that. 20 to 40 were the numbers I was thinking too. 20 being a moderate high and 40 an extreme high for a single emotion or related set of emotions.

>>11684

I prefer to think of it as extremeness instead of total. A 100 "terror" emotion is so extreme that the person is likely to have a heart attack from it

>Mutations

All. I'm taking shapeshifters so I can hide them at will

>Powers and Abilities

Regeneration

Shapeshifting

Space

Restoration

Debilitate

Magic eye

Silver tongue

Contract magic

I choose my powers mostly based on their ability to let me avoid combat

DPU generation

Automatic. I plan to spend most of my time in the wild

I can always spend 3 decades deciding on a second generation method after I've seen how this world will react to me

>Minions

Specialized in undead and know how to summon all of them

Witches

Red Dragons

I probably wont invest in a dragon or a lich for a while, but will get there eventually

I'll guard myself with skeletons who will mostly distract any intruders while the wraiths come up from the floor and grab them my the ankles. That is if they dont die from my banshee's cry.

>Servants

Dwarves

Spirit Enchanters

Elves

Dwarves will dig out my lairs and then work with the enchanters to fill them with magical and mundane trials as well as creating magic equipment for myself and minions

Elves will make potions and also serve as general servants like inferior celestial maids. I will let Emilia bully them as she sees fit

>Core Guardian

Emilia is free so her of course. Would love to waifu up. Our double debilitation powers should make most of our enemies very susceptible to banshee and wraith death effects.

I will keep her happy bu giving her a few elves to order around.

Now other powers and abilities can be purchased in the future as more global points are accumulated over the decades, it does this apply to core guardians as well? Getting Puff and Shiro might be worth going into debt for, but if I can purchase later, I'll do that. Four decades is nothing if Puff is waiting at the end.

>Creation powers

Luxuries. Mostly to keep Emilia happy but also so I dont just sit in a dank cave for centuries without a cushion

Talisman of warding. If my dwarfs are building my labyrinth lair, you bet any intruders are not going to just blow holes through walls

Interference crystal

Probably the most no-brainer choice imho

Lesser demon core. Skelton party

>Drawbacks

None

>Location

Gadresh seems like a popular destination. I expect adventurers might be willing to not attack me if I present myself as a decent fellow willing to heal them when they get lost and perhaps sell a few potions and other magic items. I mean, all kinds of RPGs have that one friendly monster village, which will be the kind of atmosphere I intend to give off if anyone stumbles upon my lair.

My general strategy is to lay low and hope the gods dont see fit to bother with me. In case they dont, I plan to have multiple lairs. My first big expenditure of DPU will be to summon a witch. Her job will be to pretend to be a human and traverse the world seeking out other good locations for hiding spots. She is to report back to me and portal me to these places so I can teleport there as well and eventually send dwarves, enchanters, and lessser demon cores to the new locations. When SHTF, I will manually roll my demon core through the portal to safety along with myself, Emilia, and as .any minions as I can get through.

If anyone finds me, I heal their injuries and ask them to sign a contract to forbid ever revealing my existence or location to others (and giving them something in return like a promise of low cost items and healing in the future) and act as a helpful fellow as much as possible.

Hopefully the gods will just leave me be so long as I'm not hurting anyone or spoiling their sandbox fun.

>>11687

Oh, and I meant to ask a few questions.

>Arena

Does this simply for me to set up gladiator matches for my amusement, or can minions improve their stats with effort?

>incarnation circle

1. Is the circle a permanent fixture or do I need to pay the cost each time?

2. Do minions and servants count as sentient? If so could I "promote" a favorite minion to a higher tier?

3. If 2 is a yes, could I incarnate a nonreincarnating minion as a reincarating minion of the same type? Like I might not want to invest that much DPU in a witch starting out, but once she knows enough teleportation locations, she might be valuable enough to want to keep around

4. I assume an average human results in a average minion, but could an above average adventure result in an above average minion?

>>11688

Probably not stats, but none of the stats given covers "skill". It's probably beneficial for YOU at least to practice fighting a bit since nothing says you automatically know how to use your magic effectively. Maybe you can practice with your guardian(s) to get the teamwork right.

As for the incarnation circle, the author has already stated you can use it to set an existing minion to reincarnating. It's probably fixed and I don't see why you couldn't "upgrade" a minion. Stats though are probably just the minion type, no getting around that.

>>11685

That works too. There are physical limits to how much a person can stand and 100 can be assumed to be a realistic limit.

>>11688

1: I would assume the reincarnation circle can be used repeatedly once created since it is an item, not a power/spell.

4: It says they keep memories and I'd assume they keep personality, so whatever superior knowledge and drive they had before would still apply. Physical/magical capability tied to their blood would be lost.

>>11688

>Does this simply for me to set up gladiator matches for my amusement, or can minions improve their stats with effort?

The stats of your minions do not change. The arena only improves their skill through combat experience.

>Is the circle a permanent fixture or do I need to pay the cost each time?

It's a permanent fixture. You only need to purchase it once.

>Do minions and servants count as sentient? If so could I "promote" a favorite minion to a higher tier?

Your minions and servants are sentient, with the exception of the adamantine golem.

>could I incarnate a nonreincarnating minion as a reincarating minion of the same type?

Yes, you can do that.

>I assume an average human results in a average minion, but could an above average adventure result in an above average minion?

The physical stats of your minions are static and unchanging. What carries over is memory and skill.

>>11692

I see. Very cool CYOA btw

>>11755

I feel you are too caught up in being the stereotypical dungeon keeper and forgetting why they always lose. You are designing your dungeon as if to give your heroes a nice and fair difficulty curve culminating in a tough but balanced fight that they can reasonably expect to win, just like a video game.

Except, your job here isn't to give the Heroes a fun and enjoyable time, it's to survive by any means necessary. Anything you do to the heroes should serve that purpose. Create fights that AREN'T fair, that they have no chance of winning. Don't bother ramping up, hit them with an unscalable difficulty wall out of nowhere. If you are going to use minions that can't hope to win against a hero, use them for some other purpose. Delay, distract, and diminish.

In specific terms, anything other than your Core Guardian has exactly zero chance of winning against a Hero. Anything less than a hero (IE an adventurer) has next to no chance of winning against a single tier 4 minion (though Balroths are the absolute worst). If you are planning to fight, put everything you have into helping your Core Guardian, everything else is at best a waste of resources and potentially empowers the Hero in the process. Anything that can't fight should be dedicated to ensuring that a fight never happens in the first place. I have my doubts that succubutts and stranglers can deter a hero, but it might be possible.

>>11759

Excuse me I was being clever when I said "delay" but I might have caused some confusion. Only buy time when buying time pays off in the end. If you are already as prepared as you will ever be, you may as well roll out the red carpet and lead the hero directly to the main fight

>>11759

>>11760

ty for your quality constructive criticism anon

>>11791

A pirate's life for thee, and you DIDN'T take a kracken tentacle horror?

>>11791

>>11816

That's a very good idea.

>I trade skeletons and liches for tentacle horrors

Now witches and manticores dominate the air while krakens lurk the seas. Skeletons and liches get the boot since most battles in Batrela aren't on land and it's a severe waste of resources to have an allied vessel sink. Tentacle horrors might not have the best stats but my main targets are actually enemy ships.

>>11817

Too bad. Skeleton crews sounded like a fantastic idea, and Liches are kind of OP given that they can reanimate ANYTHING, even heroes, and have complete control over the reanimated thing.

>>11818

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

>I trade manticores for skellingtons and lichens

It's true that i'd get a lot of value out of a lich and maybe I need to show more appreciation for my skeleton bros. I wanted manticores because like liches they have a good match up against adventures. This however is a waste since they generally kill the person before recruitment. Also I didn't take into account the maintenance cost for manticores, 300 pound flying lions don't eat air.

>>11819

>Skeletons

>Plaguebringers

>Tentacle Horrors

>Witch

>Lich

This looks pretty solid

>>11818

>>11816

>>11759

thanks anons for your help

Sorry I've been busy, I finally got around to finishing the update.

>>11699

Thanks, glad you liked it!

This game doesn't at all seem very logical. Why would Demons who get power from doing absolutely nothing parley in any capacity with gods who have upkeep and a significantly lower power ceiling?

Why would the terms be "instead of open war where we can kill each other, you can just send people to kill us and we can only defend ourselves in these specific ways and we can't ever strike back at you"? Isn't that obviously a recipe for disaster?

If heroes level up into gods when they kill enough demons, wouldn't gods never send them because of the potential competition that creates? After all, god power is a zero sum game with respect to population.

These rules are way too dumb anime for my tastes.

>>11936

>Why would Demons who get power from doing absolutely nothing parley in any capacity with gods who have upkeep and a significantly lower power ceiling?

The upkeep is not too significant. Only the gods with very few followers go into decline. A god with many followers will gain strength at a faster rate than a demon lord. Overall the god side was stronger than the demon side, but the costs of continuing the war was too high. The demon side never wanted the war in the first place.

>Why would the terms be "instead of open war where we can kill each other, you can just send people to kill us and we can only defend ourselves in these specific ways and we can't ever strike back at you"?

It's the surviving elder demon lords that agreed to the terms, and heroes are a joke to them. The gods don't mess with elder demon lords. The hero games only apply to young demon lords and demigods.

>If heroes level up into gods when they kill enough demons, wouldn't gods never send them because of the potential competition that creates?

Very few heroes make it that far, and most of the ones that do are on good terms with the god that supported them. Not all gods are rivals. Factions exist and godly allies are very welcome in a setting where gods can murder each other. Also, whenever a hero kills a young demon lord a portion of that power goes to the god that spawned that hero.

>>11940

>Overall the god side was stronger

The god side was just a little stronger. They were pretty close to being even.

>>11936

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. It's not demon vs god. It's young vs old. The truce benefits both elder demon lords and gods at the expense of the heroes and younger demon lords. The heroes generate power for the gods by killing young demon lords and young demon lords generate power for older demon lords through debt. Young and rising demon lords and potential gods are killed off in the games and the old farts maintain their power and position.

>>11364

Greaaaaat autism anon, Always wanted some git gud dongeon. Emotion Nerfed pretty hard, did someone already make a sex pit build somewhere else? I'm full of ideas like nevah before. Such wow. Btw how much pop should we expect in a village? Small village 100 big 1000 small town 10000? I'm mass kidnapping so it's good to know what to expect.

Anons on this thread rack ambition.

>>11958

The population in the big cities should be a little higher than the most populous cities in medieval Europe, because magic exists in that world.

Healing magic could save people who would have otherwise died from disease and injury. Earth and water magic would allow for superior farming to sustain larger populations.

Big cities may have many tens of thousands. Villages range somewhere between 100 and 1000 people. Towns are somewhere in between.

>>11959

Tens of thousands of people spread over something like a 10 mile square (100 square miles) leaves you with fuck all power. You really nerfed the DPU generation to uselessness when you cut the radius down to 1km

>>11960

I don't think it's nearly as bad as you're making it seem. A circle with a radius of 1 kilometer covers 3.14 square kilometers and most medieval cities were not that big. Medieval London was something like 6.5 square kilometers in size. You could tap a huge portion of the city and easily surpass 10,000 people which would give you over 20 times the DPU generation speed of automatic. Constantinople was something like 8-10 square kilometers and had a population in the hundred thousands.

>>11962

I've read some sources that agree with you, but I don't believe it. New York City today has a population density of a little over 27 thousand per square mile. That would be great for Life Generation and it's not even the densest population on earth, BUT it's completely unrealistic for medieval tech even with magic added. You are talking about a city that stacks people hundreds of stories into the air, vs a setting where stacking two stories on top of one another is difficult if you aren't building a castle.

>>11967

New York is 302.6 square miles, so that kind of average combines the much less densely populated areas of the city with the really densely populated areas that you're probably thinking of to give a lower overall average. I'm curious what the population density is in the most populous cubic kilometers of New York, where people live in stacked buildings. That would be much more relevant.

A city like Dhaka has an average population density of 46,000 per square kilometer, which is many times more dense than a medieval city but even that is the average of 306 square kilometers of space. It doesn't tell us what the limit of modern population density is, though it's clearly still several times that of medieval cities.

So does Magnus have the combat ability of 1024 normal humans or can he run around at 1024* the speed of a normal human which would be 25600km/h If this was the case he could just launch himself through bedrock and smash the core in 5 seconds.

I'm guessing it's the first and not the latter but the.

> Mutations

Fangs

Eye Colour

> Free Abilities

Immortality

Creation

Removal

Status Immunity

Summon Demon Core

Sustenance

> Loaned Global Points [10-1-3-1]

> Combat Potential

Attack Power – 6+2

Combat Speed – 6+2

Movement Speed – 6+2

Health – 6+2

Durability – 6+2

Resistance – 6+2

Special – 6+2

> Powers and Abilities [Personal Demon Points: 12-12]

- Physical

Enhancement (x7)

Regeneration

- Magic

Restoration

- Creature

Debilitate

Magic Eye

- Special

Contract Magic

Silver Tongue [-1 GP]

> DPU Generation

Automatic

Death [-3 GP]

> Minions [Personal Demon Points: 10-10]

- Specialty

Forsaken

- Tier 01

Slime

Lizardman

- Tier 02

Skinwalker

Jorogumo

- Tier 03

Succubus

Gargoyle

- Tier 04

Fallen Angel

> Servants [Personal Demon Points: 3-3]

Dwarven Craftsman

Forest Elf

Demon Scholar

Spirit Enchanters [-1 GP]

> Core Guardian

Yoko

> Creation Powers [Personal Demon Points: 4-4]

Luxuries

Interference Crystal

Lesser Demon Core

False Demon Core

> Drawbacks

None

> Location

Maloris

> Meeting

Demon Lord of Gadresh

Long story short, it's a race against time to cause the downfall and destruction of the Church and Maloris by their own hands using the fear of the oppressed magic users against them. Oh and having them find and destory the false dungeon core in their own Cathedral. Still iffy on the exact details though because it's been 20 hours since I've last been able to sleep.

>>11973

I've been meaning to go into more detail about stats. Speed increases linearly, so the difference between 6 speed and 12 speed is only 2x. Attack power is a measure of the ability to cause damage through physical attacks, not necessarily a measure of physical strength alone. For example, it would be impossible for an average human to cleanly slice through a large rock with a non-magical sword, but if they were trained to infuse their attacks with magical energy they may be able to cut through the rock with a normal sword like a knife through butter. Their own physical strength didn't go up. Their sword's cutting power went up which effectively raised their attack rating. On the other hand, for a creature like an ogre, most of their attack power comes from raw physical strength. The ogre could just smash the rock with a blunt weapon - yet the magic swordsman and the ogre may have a similar attack rating.

The heroes are somewhere in between those two extremes. They are many times stronger than an average human, but they're also demigods that are filled with godly energy. Magnus has 1024 times the attack rating of a normal human, but nowhere near 1024 times the raw physical strength of an average human. He infuses all of his attacks with divine power which gives his attacks a significant boost. In the case of Magnus, he can make his sword slice through things very well. Godly energy is not the same as magical energy, so Alice can't stop this process, but that also means that creatures like shadow fiends won't be harmed by godly energy. The heroes will be using enchanted weapons and will have a light source with them, so they will be able to harm shadow fiends, but if the heroes were disarmed for some reason they could be rendered helpless and ripped to shreds.

Durability works in a similar way. A hero may enhance their body with divine energy to make it tougher to harm their body where as an adamantine golem may just be made of a really strong substance. The two have entirely different kinds of durability but both would be rated very high. The same applies to hit points. Heroes may have divine power flowing through their bodies which allows them to sustain far more damage before their bodies fail, where as something like a dragon is just big.

I'll make one more statement about the heroes. The gods hate each other. They are only unified in stifling the advancement of technology and preventing world ending threats. As long as you are not waging war on the entire world or bringing about a technological revolution the heroes will never unify against you. The heroes are strong but you'll never have to deal with a party of them.

>>11980

Party or not you are still going to have to deal with all of them, constantly. Refusing to work together just means the heroes race each other to get you instead. After all to the heroes you are a huge prize, and to the gods you are a huge threat, even if you aren't doing anything at all.

Once you start killing heroes your threat level goes up. The gods also start to take a very personal interest in wanting you dead. After all, if a certain god's hero can't even kill YOU, then how could that god be deserving of worship? They HAVE to kill you to save face. Not to mention you've deprived them of one of their best tools, they are going to want revenge.

Coupled with how easy it is for gods and heroes to find you, there's absolutely no way you will go through 10 years without being attacked, and no way you will survive 20 without all 5 heroes dying. That's EVERY 20 years. The only exception is if they are busy with (and dying to) the other demon lord instead. They WILL still find you, but she's already got a higher threat level

I personally think the heroes are too strong for this. Any one of them you might be able to deal with, but every fight is risky even if you put every possible point into being anti-hero. Even with ALL the core guardians, there's still a pretty good chance of failing against any given hero. Sooner or later something is going to come around, either by design or random chance that counters any strategy you have, and it doesn't help that you have no idea what any future heroes will be able to do. Considering you need to kill HUNDREDS of heroes in order to survive and escape, the whole setup is just too unreasonable.

>>11981

Why bother with focusing on just the Heroes? One of the DP Generation methods uses the deaths of humans, and it's laid out very clearly that Gods need their worshippers to maintain their power.

See where I'm going with this?

Kill as many of a god's worshippers as possible within a 10km range of your Core and build up your forces and power before a hero shows up and you bury them under the bodies of your army. When that's done and the hero's dead, that's twenty years of that particular god's hero out of commission, meaning you can continue with the slaughter of that God's worshippers until the God cannot afford to create another hero due to their weakening power.

I mean, that's the hint that we got from Solaris' hero's death, the dude was basically dog-piled by Gadresh's forces, from an ambush no less.

>>11981

>Refusing to work together just means the heroes race each other to get you instead.

If that were true they'd all be in Gadresh right now. Instead each hero, excluding the dead one, appears to be in the primary land of his/her patron deity. The gods and their followers likely need their heroes to protect from each other as much as from you. If you lay low you could easily appear as less of a threat than the other gods and don't forget you can make an alliance.

>After all, if a certain god's hero can't even kill YOU, then how could that god be deserving of worship?

1. First you say that we are a "huge threat" even if we do nothing, but now you imply we are seen as petty enemies that are shameful to lose against. This is contradictory.

2. People still worship Siros and he is probably spinning it in his favor just as real world political groups do.

>Not to mention you've deprived them of one of their best tools, they are going to want revenge.

It is expected heroes will die. It is seen as a game. A god won't send a hero out if the hero is needed elsewhere.

The heroes are very dangerous, but Siros's got jumped in the wilderness and died. The price of all the power you can have someday is that the risks are large. If you are both cunning and strong you'll have a reasonable chance, but the risks are still high. Look at the other demon lord: she is not only flooding the land with minions, but preemptively striking against heroes.

>>11985

You can bet that Siros will send his next hero ASAP. Also, it probably hasn't been that long, since the cooldown seems to be on creating the hero not the hero dying, so that would probably explain why the others haven't moved yet. Or maybe they don't want to risk directly conflicting with Imera's hero so they are waiting until he succeeds or dies first.

In what possible world could the other 4 gods NOT send each of their heroes to deal with one of you within the next 20 years though? The gods seem to share territory while competing for worshipers, so there's not much they would need to stay behind and defend. Killing demon lords is literally the best thing for both the heroes AND the gods. Besides even if you aren't causing problems NOW it would be absolutely retarded for them to leave you to grow. The longer they wait the less chance they have that they can stop you, they know that as well as you so if you are "lying low" their first assumption will be you are gathering power to use against them, and they won't be wrong.

>>11985

>The heroes are very dangerous, but Siros's got jumped in the wilderness and died.

Worth mentioning that Triston was BY FAR the weakest of the whole bunch. In order that would be Triston<Tsuchida<Magnus<Lithia<Isabelle. Tsuchida doesn't have a cheat death either so he can be overwhelmed, but it would take at least a decade worth of minions (+ core guardians for the man himself) to win. Magnus shrugs off anything you can throw at him. Lithia is even stronger than Magnus compared to you and your minions/guardians thanks to her double debilitate, AND she steals your minions which all effectively get+2 all stats. Isabelle is untouchable, time shenanigans are pretty much auto-win in any setting and this is no different.

>>11987

If you read the description for Gadresh the events happened as follows. It started with the demon lord of Gadresh releasing goblins and orcs into the wilderness. The military fought a prolonged campaign against them. The failures of the military resulted in the creation of an adventurer’s guild. At first adventurers were not well respected. Adventurers began to subjugate orcs and goblins. Over time that had a noticeable effect and public opinion shifted in favor of the adventurers. They became respected. That series of events took place over years. Triston had been made a hero at the age of 16. At the age of 18 he set off to Gadresh. At the age of 19 he led an army into the wilderness and was slaughtered. His death was somewhat recent, but the important point to note is that the other heroes who were around during that whole series of events had every opportunity to make a move, but they did not. The gods were aware of the existence of the demon lord of Gadresh. She was not subtle at all.

That isn’t to say they won’t eventually make a move on her, but it’s not something that they’re racing each other for. I’m letting you know this because you seem to believe that the gods will find you almost immediately and that the heroes will all rush you as quickly as possible, and it's not going to be that bad. It is possible to hide out, potentially for a long time, because the gods are not looking for other demon lords and their focus lies elsewhere.

Often the hero is a very public symbol of their god’s power. When a god blesses a hero and that hero fails and dies, it makes that god look bad. It’s a source of embarrassment for the god among their peers. It also hurts the reputation of the god in the eyes of the people. If a god were to repeatedly send heroes against a demon lord and those heroes were repeatedly killed off by that demon lord, then the people would begin to doubt the power of that god. It would cost them worshippers.

Furthermore, while their hero is dead the other living heroes can actively work to steal followers and increase their own faiths. The usefulness of heroes extends beyond just fighting demon lords, so it’s not always the best course of action to flush them down the toilet the moment they get them. If a hero does something as simple as protect an otherwise doomed village that has come under attack from monsters or bandits, that simple act has the effect of increasing the faith of the village. Over a couple of years those kinds of actions can have a significant impact on the faithfulness of a population. When viewed in that way, monster problems could be seen as beneficial for certain gods, as long as they’re not excessive.

Even when the gods do eventually sense your presence, they don’t know exactly how powerful you are. Are you a planeswalker who is visiting their world? That would mean you have several hundred years of power behind you. Do they risk sending a hero at you? If they did and that hero lost, how would the people see that? There are monsters causing problems throughout the world, and rather than send their hero to deal with those problems they sent their hero into the wilderness to deal with some unknown creature that has never harmed anybody – and their hero lost! It would not look good. I think the demon lord of Gadresh is going to be the higher priority target unless you prove to be the bigger threat. Eventually you will be targeted by heroes, but it's not going to be 5 heroes every 20 years, and as long as the demon lord of Gadresh is living those heroes will be split between the two of you.

My intent as the author was to create a game that is possible to win. A series of events that crush you at the very beginning would not be a very fun game. They won't happen unless you do something to bring them on yourself.

>>11988

> Magnus shrugs off anything you can throw at him

The stats of the heroes (particularly Magnus) may seem imposing at first glance but they can be dealt with. Durability is not as big of a deal as some people make it out to be – I’ll explain. If an average human were to get a good full powered hit in on another average human with a basic weapon like a sword or a warhammer the result would be one dead human. That is the result of somebody with 2 attack power getting a good solid hit in on somebody with 2 durability and 2 health. If we take it to the scale of heroes and core guardians, the result is the same. If a person with 10 attack power and a legendary magic sword were to get a good solid hit in on a person with 10 durability and 10 life, the durability of the defender would be insufficient to protect them from the attack. That’s how durability is. It works great against large groups of weaker creatures, but its effect is minimal against an equally ranked attacker.

Now imagine that you as a human had 10 durability and 10 life. Taking a hit from somebody with 10 attack would be like taking a full powered hit from another average human with a sword – easily fatal. Taking a hit from somebody with 9 attack would be like taking hit from another human at 50% of their full power – damaging and potentially fatal. At 8 attack it would be like an average human swinging a sword at you with 25% of their power. At 7 attack it would be like 12.5%. That’s unlikely to be fatal, but even at 7 attack you could still sustain damage. At 6 attack it would be like 6.25%, but even that could cause damage if they were to thrust the sword directly into your eye.

The point I’m trying to make here is that most heroes have a durability score in the 8-9 range. Red dragons have 8 attack. Fallen angels and Balroth also have 8 attack (if you give them legendary swords). Your tier 4 minions can do harm to the heroes. Even Magnus only has 10 durability. A dragon with 8 durability thrusting its claws out at him would be like an average human thrusting a spear at you with 25% of their power. It’s going to cause damage through 10 durability. Even without any core guardians at all a pack of dragons is a serious threat for Magnus. This isn’t even factoring in things like debilitate or “double debilitate”. Your core guardians will easily be able to hurt him and so will you if you buffed your attack/magic. He certainly does not shrug off anything you throw at him. In fact if he gets taken by surprise by a core guardian he can be killed in seconds. The heroes have their weaknesses.

>>11994

>Often the hero is a very public symbol of their god’s power. When a god blesses a hero and that hero fails and dies, it makes that god look bad. It’s a source of embarrassment for the god among their peers. It also hurts the reputation of the god in the eyes of the people. If a god were to repeatedly send heroes against a demon lord and those heroes were repeatedly killed off by that demon lord, then the people would begin to doubt the power of that god. It would cost them worshippers.

Yes, that would be bad. What would be even worse would be for the god to "give up" after their hero died.

Also worth noting, if a God has had a hero for nearly 20 years already they have considerably less to lose already. Their cooldown for making a new hero is based on when they made the last one, and when a hero dies the god gets back all of their power. That again leads to the conclusion that you WILL have to kill every single hero the gods make, as fast as they can make them (every 20 years). Whether that's in the first year or the last, they all have to die.

>>11995

I was thinking of durability more like armor. Normal humans with normal swords in normal armor (2 attack, 2 defense) are going to struggle to do any damage to each other normally. IRL swords cannot defeat plate armor at all (they have to bypass it), but lets assume that full plate is more like a 3 durability, at 2 you are dealing with more common brigandines and shit. By that logic, +2 durability isn't going to be damaged by anything short of siege weaponry, if +1 is plate mail +2 is an armored car at least, which makes +3 a tank.

After all, if durability is only bare counting skin, than non-magical plate armor would be something like +7 already for a normal human. Pulling that number out of my ass but it feels right.

Time shenanigans still beat everything.

>>11997

It's not my intention to get into an argument about this. As the author I can make canon statements and I'm letting you that the gods will not quickly detect you if you hide out. When you are eventually detected you will not be rushed by 5 heroes every 20 years.

The heroes are not allies of each other and you are not their only target. The demon lord of Gadresh is the prime target. Also, the relationship between the gods is so poor that the heroes may even fight each other. This game can be beaten in many ways.

Isabelle can be beaten. People have come up with many ideas to fight against her power. I don't want to copy and paste them all here because that would be boring. I'd like for people to creatively come up with their own plans.

Anyway, have fun and play how you want. I'm out for now.

>>11998

>The demon lord of Gadresh is the prime target.

Yes I'm aware of this. Until she dies in the next 5-10 years and then you are all that's left.

>>11999

I don't see why you believe the Gadresh demon lord is going to die in 5-10 years. She's young enough to be a target for the hero games but that does not mean that she is a newbie like you. All that it means is that she has not merged with her core yet. She could be much older and stronger than you for all you know.

Even if she were to die you would not be the only target. I told you the heroes may fight among themselves. They are not allies. You will not be attacked by 5 heroes every 20 years unless you bring it on yourself by waging war on humanity or engineering a technological revolution. I am stating that as the author. If you can't accept that then I don't know what else to tell you. It should be good news though…and now i'm out for real. I've got work to do.

>>12007

You are missing the part where a Hero who slays a Demon Lord ascends to Demigodhood and their god gets a portion of that power as well. Meanwhile, gods don't require very many worshippers to survive, and they apparently operate on multiple worlds.

Isabelle has a 15 second rewind, an unlimited time stop and a 1-year do-over. The rewind can be done in chunks, so going back 1.5 seconds to dodge and perfectly counter an attack is doable, doubly so as she can freeze time to plan her exact counterattack. She will outskill anyone and anything, and she has a 10 strength so she easily has the power to back it up. If by some fluke she managed to die (and keep in mind no one dies instantly, ESPECIALLY not when meat points are a thing), she'd be able to go back to before you were ready for her with all the knowledge of what you can and would do.

>>12007

> you still benefit more than not if you last a handful of decades living well

I also disagree with that. You only benefit when you can finally escape the shitty world you are stuck on for the next few centuries. MAYBE if you live long enough that your life is significantly lengthened by being demon lord again, over a century) you might call it a benefit. Otherwise you are mostly better off being a nobody on earth.

>>12008

> (and keep in mind no one dies instantly, ESPECIALLY not when meat points are a thing)

Actually, the author had something to say on this:

> If an average human were to get a good full powered hit in on another average human with a basic weapon like a sword or a warhammer the result would be one dead human. That is the result of somebody with 2 attack power getting a good solid hit in on somebody with 2 durability and 2 health. If we take it to the scale of heroes and core guardians, the result is the same. If a person with 10 attack power and a legendary magic sword were to get a good solid hit in on a person with 10 durability and 10 life, the durability of the defender would be insufficient to protect them from the attack.

Long story short, as long as the attack matches or exceeds the durability and health of the target and successfully hits, it's over for said target.

>>12009

I'm tempted to reply to this, but it is so obviously dumb it is not needed. Anyone who disagrees can agree with him! I urge others to not shit up the thread by trying to reason with him. This is the second time someone shat up the thread with stupidity on this level. This is too good of a CYOA to bump limit its threads with this crap. Let him bitch.

I only have one addition due to something I said before not being totally accurate, then I'm out:

>>12007

On second thought I underestimated how important killing you was for most heroes. Unless they are already immortal like Lithia they have limited time to become a god. It still isn't in their interest to rush you. Discourage one enough and he may instead choose to sabotage the other heroes to prevent his rivals from gaining your power.

>>12011

"Obviously dumb"? You are sent to a world with shit tech, lose anything you might have had on earth, and have to hide and or fight for your life. Unless you think you can take on all the gods and their heroes there's nothing really to be gained on this world. Power is worthless by itself, a means to an end only and there are no ends both possible and worth achieving besides escape.

>>12020

4

Alarm

Practice Arena

>(for re-spawning minions to train by fighting to the death)

Interference Crystal

Incarnation Circle

Lesser Demon Core

Location:

Batrela sound like a perfect home base, especially with my transportation abilities. I'll plant my core in a dungeon built into the most distant tropical islands rock and slowly expand my domain to become the Monarch of the Islands. Then I will travel to Northern Maloris, and begin my invasion. The force from the North will not appear connected at all with the newly Civilised Privateer Kingdom to the far south. My nation in the south will act as a normal peaceful trading partner, but will be the foundation of my invasion from the north made possible by teleportation and flight. I will launch the invasion when Maloris invades Edeomea. While their forces are sent north, I will take the Dragons and burn their crops and then retreat.

>>11940

Does the creation power allow me to form the materials, or are they just chunks of the raw stuff. If so, how complex stuff can I create? A cubic meter of nails of titan? A clock? A sculpture?>>11940

>>11929

>>11637

Reinvisioning my previous one with the new rules. I appreciate stats being worthwhile now.

Mutations: Eye Color (glow), Skin (normal, or white like the Horns picture if that's cheating)

Easily hidden with Illusion magic. Even if seen it might not be too bad.

Abilities (1 point of debt added)

Physical: Enhancement x4 (Combat Speed and Special to 10)

Magic: Elemental, Illusion, Restoration, Space

Creature: Debilitate, Magic Eye

Special: Contract Magic, Silver Tongue, Scrying

DPU Generation: Automatic (8,760,000/year)

Minions (Forsaken Type)

Plaguebearer: Great utility and can drop caltrop/alchemy bombs in large numbers.

Lizardman: Versatile humanoid minion force. Best power per DPU if properly equipped.

Jorogumo: Spider silk is strong, but magic Elf cotton might beat it for most uses.

Gargoyle: Flying tanks, but a waste of DPU unless used cleverly.

Ogre: Hits hard and isn't situational.

Shadow Fiend: Synergy with Alice and Fallen Angels (opposite weaknesses).

Fallen Angel: Effective vs undead hordes.

Servants: Dwarf, Elf, Spirit: Self-sufficiency, traps, and magical lights.

Guardians: Alice, Yoko (4 pts of debt added)

I want Yoko to use illusions to make us very hard to find, but not to draw more attention than needed. She'll probably agree if it means keeping humans away.

Items: Alarm, Talisman of Warding, Interference Crystal, Practice Arena

Drawbacks (5 pts of debt removed)

Weakness: I'm already a glass cannon reliant on interruption/evasion against heroes.

Insubordination: Betrayal is unlikely if I use Contract Magic and treat my minions well, but I'd still be afraid to take minions such as Witch or Strangler until I remove this.

Debt: None (1+4-5). Could be drawback free with a third guardian in 120 years.

Location: Edeomea: I have good counters to the resident hero and the people aren't very organized.

Contact/Alliance: None. I want to avoid conflict with both Imera and the other demon lord as much as possible so I'd rather not contact anyone since any alliance will likely want me to start trouble with one of those. The other demon lord sounds like a PITA, but I shouldn't forget what "side" I'm on.

General Strategy

Since I have several different air minions and can fly myself we should locate somewhere to take advantage of this. A single gargoyle headbutt or plaguebearer bomb could severely injure a hero on precarious footing if he cannot fly. More importantly it'll make it easier to isolate a hero and prevent him from bringing too many allies. If I can survive 40 years for another guardian I'll be in a good position to quickly grow in power. With two warriors for my core guard and powerful magic I have a good chance of one-shotting most heroes before they can hit me. No currently living hero is immune to this, but some are much more difficult than others.

>>12100

interesting

>>11930

I wonder if Yoko can be convinced to forgive humanity and focus her hate on the gods instead. They were pretty clearly the ones behind everything that happened to her. Her story is also why it doesn't pay to be nice with them around.

Onto more mechanically inclined questions. Does Alice's anti-magic field block hero's cheat death abilities if they die inside of it? I figure it should almost certainly stop Isabelle, but Lithia and Magnus are a little more questionable because the "source" of their power is outside of the field. It could effectively block the connection between them and their phylactery though.

In general, I know you are looking at nerfing heroes with "easy mode" (NOT a good idea) to deal with complaints. I'd like to suggest you instead look at buffing Core Guardians instead. In particular, it would be nice if each Guardian had a Hero-tier ability. Currently most of them only have Demon Lord or Monster-tier abilities. Alice already sort of has one with her anti-magic, maybe Yoko might qualify but it's strictly non-combat. Maybe throw in a way to increase their stats and abilities as well, that would be a far more efficient starting point than buffing your own stats.

>>12113

Well I'm still going to complain, but it's better than the difficulty mode bandaid. With that I can either be a pussy and play on easy or else I have no right to complain, neither is acceptable plus it diminishes the immersion because that's absolutely not a choice that makes sense to the setting. Also even if you can choose these heroes abilities there's still the next set to worry about

>>12114

I honestly don't see any reason to nerf the heroes. All of them can be defeated pretty easily.

>>12114

>plus it diminishes the immersion

This is the biggest reason why I didn't go through with it. As of now I'm not planning any changes for the heroes.

>>12117

No they can't. All of them can defeat YOU pretty easily, even knowing what they can do and being as prepared as possible, and you don't have any idea what the next set can do.

>>12121

It was explained that tier 4 minions can easily hurt and kill the heroes, so I strongly disagree, but I'm not going to engage in this debate any longer because it's shitting up the thread. Believe whatever you want.

>>12123

"Potentially" yes, "easily" no. You'd need a lot of them in an extremely favorable situation. It mostly relies on the heroes being idiots and you having decades worth of setup time.

>>12125

>>12123

What the author pointed out, which is still debatable based on how he defined the system previously, is that a tier 4 minion is capable of harming a hero at about a 1/4th effectiveness. Even if we take that at face value of a flesh to flesh comparison rather than an armor comparison, where 1/4th of "normal" damage to armor would basically be 0, it still leaves the hero at a massive advantage. He's faster, stronger, and tougher, and has powerful unique abilities. Where he might be wounded at 1/4th effectiveness, provided the minion even lands a blow, the minion will be wounded at over 4x effectiveness. With his extra speed, skill, and abilities, a Hero can tear through a horde of tier 4 minions like they were paper. Theoretically they MIGHT be able to kill him with a death by 1000 cuts, but you are going to need dozens of them at least. And of course, after letting decades worth of accumulated minions die for that killing blow, the hero just uses his cheat death ability that's almost impossible to stop.

Can an existing minion be upgrades to a respawning one? Like can I summon for five million points and then later spend fourty-five million to give it respawning?

>>12126

Durability is natural resistance and does not factor in armor. Armor improves the survivability of average humans because their stats are low, but the effect of armor becomes smaller as stats rise. By the time we reach the level of heroes, armor is nearly irrelevant. An adamantine golem is literally made of nothing but the hardest material in the world, and its durability is only rated at 10. Supposedly somebody with 10 attack power and a magic sword can cut through that as easily as human flesh. So even if a hero is wearing armor made of the hardest material there is, it won't protect them very well at all against high ranking attackers.

>tier 4 minion is capable of harming a hero at about a 1/4th effectiveness

Most of the heroes have between 8 and 9 durability. With 8 attack, the attacks from the strongest tier 4 minions would be 50-100% effective, not 25% effective. Only one single hero has 10 durability. On that one single hero an attack from the strongest tier 4 minion would only be 25% effective but that’s easily enough to deal fatal damage if it’s done by something like a spear.

>No they can't. All of them can defeat YOU pretty easily

The advantage is clearly yours because they need to come to you. As the demon lord you set the stage. They're treading through unfamiliar territory while you literally design ambushes for them decades in advance. You should have explosives, death portals that send heroes directly into a volcano, collapsing ceiling traps, and all kinds of other nasty stuff. Any serious combat that takes place between the hero and you should be a massive one-sided ambush in your favor. A hero intrudes on your domain and you watch them every step of the way through scrying. They make their way down what they think is a long hallway. The enchanted walls of that hallway suddenly open to reveal that it’s not a hallway at all, it’s a room! Fallen angels with enchanted spears were waiting just behind those walls. They instantly attack in unison from all sides alongside a core guardian or two while the demon lord uses debilitate from the back ranks. That’s a dead hero.

The time hero is the only one that could be ready for that kind of ambush if she sacrifices one of her lives for the information, but even then, what is she going to do about it the second time around? If you're watching her with scrying, then you'll know if she evades your ambush. So just portal your monsters out and move them to the next ambush site. You could have hundreds of creative ambushes and traps waiting for her. I’m willing to bet she would run out of lives long before she has a chance to see them all.

>>12137

You can with the incarnation circle

>>12141

A tier 4 hero takes the better part of a year, your "ambush" requires like 20 of them to work. You can't have "hundreds" of them, you'd be lucky to have one, and you probably need all your DPU for more practical things. Meanwhile, the time hero can freeze time as the attacks are coming and instantly calculate the best path to dodge every attack and counter attack, destroying everything in one blow.

The difference between a regular human in plate armor and a regular human in street clothes is staggering. There's no way the system would work if it weren't treating unenchanted armor as an assumed part of durability. A 2 durability human MUST include unenchanted "average" armor (probably chain mail or brigandine at 2). There's no other way to work the system. Otherwise a normal human wearing plate armor would have the equivalent of OVER 10 durability already (I have no doubt that steel plates take more than 256x the force of skin to cut). Keep in mind a Human with 2 attack is already assumed to be properly armed with a non-magical sword or similar weapon, so assuming that 2 armor also includes non-magical armor follows this trend perfectly fine.

Under this system someone with a 10 attack could cut through an Adamantine golem as easily as a normal human could cut through chain mail, which isn't very easy but with a very strong thrust they could pull it off. Someone with 9 attack needs a specialized weapon to crack it (like using a mace vs chain), at 8 attack you can forget doing any damage directly and you need to find another way around.

>>12145

>A tier 4 hero takes the better part of a year,

tier 4 minion

>>12145

I think people in this thread are way overestimating the heroes. Remember, combat speed and movement speed increase linearly. Those are the true OP stats, and they aren't exponential. You are a demon lord god who is free to make an entire dungeon full of time and space manipulating traps that can't be scried or teleported away from due to your interference crystals.

For example, the time hero. There are two ways to nullify her advantages that immediately spring to mind: kill her on Jan 1st at the beginning of the day, or two: once you've ambushed her, don't kill her. Just drop her in a pit of slimes and tentacle beasts and imprison her eternally regenerating body. She can't go back to her autosave if she doesn't die. Also, even suppose you don't use any countermeasures to her sensory time stop (like blinding lights, flares, dust/ insect swarms), combat and movement speed scales linearly. It is very common to see an attack coming, and yet be unable to dodge it no matter what you do.

>>12147

> It is very common to see an attack coming, and yet be unable to dodge it no matter what you do.

Not true. With time to think AND the ability to go back in time a couple of seconds, it's very VERY hard to ever land a blow. Imagine fighting spiderman, but even more OP. Without the rewind you would normally try to hit her with explosions or drop a building on her or something, but with insane speed, reflexes, AND up to 15 seconds per minute of rewind, that's not going to work very well either.

Raw stats are bad enough, just being a bit faster and a LOT tougher gives them a massive advantage. A hero can cut through Dragons like a Musou character through hordes of mooks. Yes, the mooks CAN do damage and occasionally overwhelm the hero, but it's pretty unlikely on an individual basis, and then give the hero the power to undo mistakes or give them hordes of their own mooks potentially stolen from yours? Nigh impossible.

>>12147

oy vey that was my plan in my updated build

>>12151

Obviously she could travel back to before you teleport in, and then teleport away. Honestly not sure why she even bothers with a ship since ALL heroes have Space magic. Of course I doubt she would do that. You have nothing that could "capture" her at all, she'd cut you and everything you sent at her to ribbons in an instant. The best you could hope for is to scatter enough interference crystals that she has a hard time escaping her sinking ship, but I doubt swimming a couple of kilometers until she's out of the radius of all the crystals you can drop is going to be that much of an issue for a hero.

>>12152

>>12152

>Obviously she could travel back to before you teleport in, and then teleport away.

That's why my minions are providing a distraction. If she's busy gambling in the tavern then she won't see me teleport in.

>Honestly not sure why she even bothers with a ship since ALL heroes have Space magic.

<Space magic

"You can open a portal to anywhere you've been before", if she wants to make progress then she must use a ship for transportation. She can't fly and swimming everywhere isn't wise since she's still a human. The places she has been before resets after she autosaves probably

<You have nothing that could "capture" her at all, she'd cut you and everything you sent at her to ribbons in an instant.

I'll have the dwarfs create handcuffs but yea without legendary tier enchants they're weak. In the fight Emilia chops off a leg and I'd cuff Isabelle.

>I doubt swimming a couple of kilometers until she's out of the radius of all the crystals you can drop is going to be that much of an issue

After 2 rounds of debilitate she's slower than the plague bringers and Emilia and speed ties with the fairy queens, all of whom can fly. Isabelle can't dodge in the water so Emilia and fairy queens would absolutely destroy her. On land the plaguebringers are tracking her location and could give directions to my human adventurers who will block her escape routes.

So some changes

>Trade max attack for max speed

To restrain Isabelle. I'll test the strength of the cuffs on Emilia.

>Trade forest elves for spirit enchanters

To make some legendary prison gear.

>>12154

>On land the plaguebringers are tracking her location and could give directions to my human adventurers who will block her escape routes.

Woops adventurers can't actually handle Isabelle.

>>12145

>A tier 4 minion takes the better part of a year

Automatic generates 8,760,000 DPU in a year, which is almost two tier 4 creatures per year.

>your "ambush" requires like 20 of them to work.

I don't think it does. If durability works the way I think it does then a handful of them attacking from multiple directions combined with my core guardian and I would be enough to overwhelm. If I wanted I could have hundreds of tier 4 minions though. If I take the insubordination drawback I can have two DPU generation methods. The 5% chance of having a rogue minion can be taken care of with contract magic and is totally worth it for the sheer number of minions that I will be making.

My first DPU generation method will be automatic. My second DPU generation method will be life. I'll setup underneath a small to moderately sized town rather than the capital city because I am hiding out. So, I'll only have about 1,000 people in range rather than 20,000, but that still brings my DPU generation up to 17,520,000 DPU per year from life. Combined with automatic DPU generation that brings my total to 26,280,000 DPU per year. Multiply that by 20 for 20 years of hiding and you get 525,600,000 DPU. Divide that by 5 million and you get 105.12 tier 4 minions. However, I would not do that. I would choose to make respawning minions because I think that 10 would be plenty.

>Meanwhile, the time hero can freeze time as the attacks are coming and instantly calculate the best path to dodge every attack and counter attack, destroying everything in one blow.

This guy is right >>12147 you are severely overestimating the ability of the time hero. The time hero is deadly in 1 on 1 close combat but she lacks the raw power to deal with crowds. She's one of the easiest to just crush with numbers. If you're surrounded by people who are attacking you from all sides, it's literally impossible to dodge and counterattack everything. Take the best swordsman ever to walk the planet and surround them with 10 average dudes with spears and that swordsman is going to die. While the time hero is being turned into a human pincushion by a mob of minions and the core guardian you can use magic on her. How is she going to dodge lightning magic? What is she going to do when the earth beneath her feet opens to swallow the lower half of her body while minions are attacking from all sides?

>A 2 durability human MUST include unenchanted "average" armor (probably chain mail or brigandine at 2).

Look at attack power. It specifically mentions that a basic non-magical weapon is included for humans. Look at durability. There is no mention of armor being included. That's because durability is natural resistance in general. It doesn't factor in armor and it's not just skin deep.

>There's no other way to work the system. Otherwise a normal human wearing plate armor would have the equivalent of OVER 10 durability

That's obviously wrong. An adamantine golem made of pure adamantine only has 10 durability. Even if a human were to get a hold of adamantine plate mail armor the durability rating of that armor could not possibly be higher than the durability rating of the material itself and I don't think that suits of adamantine armor are exactly common. Even if you were to strap an average human down in adamantine armor their durability rating would not be equal to 10 because there are openings in armor near the joints and they are still just a squishy human wearing a thin 10-durability shell. Blunt force causes damage through armor. Even normal humans were able to kill other humans who wore plate armor with blunt force trauma. Take something like an ogre or a minotaur and give them a warhammer and they’ll make a mess of whatever is inside that shell.

>>12154

>I trade max combat speed for 2 combat speed and 2 attack

Now I can make favorable trades with Isabelle during the fight.

>>12156

208 days is by definition the better part of the year.

If 2 durability were based on a naked human, then how durable would steel plate be? I'd estimate platemail to be EASILY 256 times tough as skin. That means that a normal human in unenchanted plate armor would be equivalent or better to an adamantine golem in toughness. That does not make sense. It CAN NOT work that way. Meanwhile, if 2 durability is chain armor, than an adamantine golem is 256 times as tough as chain mail. This is believable.

>>12159

For the record, this is not a matter that can be solved by author fiat either. He can clarify which armor a 2 durability is based on, but saying it's skin only makes the cyoa not internally consistent. The only way he could reconcile 2 durability as being unarmored is to state that normal humans in this setting have literally skin as tough as iron, and therefor regular armor does nothing.

>>12145

>>12141

Hopefully this will be the last time I need to step in and clarify how durability and health work. Indeed durability does not factor in armor. Durability is a measure of the natural ability to resist physical damage without armor. It's not just a measure of the toughness of skin. It includes muscle, bone, and numerous other factors that I will go into in this response. If durability only dealt with skin, then I would have to assign a low durability score to a monster with thick natural subdermal plating which would make no sense.

>>12159

>>12163

The main problem is you are still trying to apply the exact same kind of durability and health to all creatures and as I explained in previous posts, there are multiple different ways that a creature could obtain high durability/health values. A creature with an exoskeleton would have high durability. A creature that continuously and subconsciously generates a dampening field around itself that reduces the force of incoming attacks could also be considered to have high durability even though its body may be considerably squishier than the creature with the exoskeleton. A creature with a fluid body that allows it to resist physical damage, like a slime, may have a high durability score even though its body is easily penetrated. A human monk who uses something like ki to temporarily empower their body may have higher durability/health than they would normally have when they are not empowered. A magic swordsman may use magic to boost their bodies, etc… This is a fantasy world with all kinds of stuff in it and I have only given myself two stats to measure the ability to take physical damage.

The purpose of having both a durability and a health stat was so that I could be more creative with my monsters. A small turtle monster with a thick shell would be an obvious example of a creature with high durability but low hit points. A giant creature with soft squishy flesh would be an obvious example of a creature with low durability and high hit points. Being able to include both types adds far more variety to the minion page. Obviously, humans do not have thick shells or large bodies, so their durability and health stats operate differently than the turtle and the giant. Heroes are demigods. In the case of heroes their divine power makes their bodies far stronger. Their divine power both reduces the impact force of attacks and makes it more difficult to cause damage to their bodies. In general, the same principle applies to all human-type creatures. Fallen angels are human in appearance but the divine power that flows through their veins makes them much harder to kill. Human-type core guardians like Dargoth and Emilia have a different kind of power that is closer to that of a demon lord like yourself.

While there are many kinds of durability and health what is consistent is that a creature with 10 attack power and a magic sword can harm a creature with 10 durability and health as easily as a creature with 2 attack power could harm a similar creature with 2 durability and health without armor. Heroes can be killed in seconds under the right conditions, so take that into account.

>>12151

Many people were talking about traps that would work in Isabelle. Pretty much anything that she can't get out of by reverting time by 15 seconds could potentially work on her once. Making her walk down a long path and then springing a trap on her that spans the whole length of that path is good example. You're the first to talk about imprisoning her though, that was interesting to read.

>>12165

You are still missing the point yourself

What's the effective durability of a human in full plate armor? It would have to be WAY higher than the durability of a human without armor (or magical/pseudomagical aide). Someone in plate is so many times more difficult to damage that if you compare them to a naked human (whether you are trying to consider "lethal damage" with bone and everything or not), they would end up with an 8-12 rating on the doubling scale you used.

The problem is basically that "naked human" is so far below "adamantine golem" in any kind of reasonable logic that you CAN NOT assign a value of 2 to one and 10 to the other. Not unless Durability is closer to 10-100x per rank. I don't care if you the author say "that's how it is". It mathematically doesn't work. YOU are wrong.

>>12169

I think that 256 times the defense rating is entirely fair when bones are included in the measure of human durability, but I've seen enough of you in this thread to know that when you take a position you refuse to deviate from that position no matter what people tell you. So, I'm not going to bang my head against a brick wall here. You can believe whatever you want. I honestly don't care anymore.

>>12172

Just think of how hard it is to kill a human with a sword unarmored, vs how hard it would be to kill them armored, vs how hard it would be to "kill" a solid chunk of steel, and then ramp that up to a solid chunk of mythical metal X times stronger than steel. If you said an adamantine golem was 100,000 times tougher than a human, I would believe you. 256 and you can just go fuck yourself you hack

>>12173

This is some serious autistic REEEE here.

>>12173

Holy shit the autism is real. Blunt force penetrates armor very well. People with a warhammer can and did kill armored opponents in a single blow. Multiply that force by 256 and the use of a magic weapon and I can see it destroying a golem.

>>12175

Yes, a very sturdy blow can kill or at least seriously wound someone in armor, provided the person swinging is reasonably strong. That's kind of the point that I've been makeing all along. In order to significantly wound something when their durability=your strength, you need a fairly strong, perfectly landed blow with an appropriate weapon (trying to slash at a golem with a sword is never going to work). All of that is entirely reasonable. Saying someone with 10 attack power can kill an Adamantine Golem is fine. I have no problem with that.

It's simply a matter of how much effort is required to kill them, and whether or not someone with 8 attack power could pull it off. If strength=durability is as easy to damage as a human without armor, while using a sword, a little girl could do it. Even a glancing blow can disable and cause massive bleeding. If it's including armor however, you need a strong, concentrated blow with the right weapon. It CAN be done, but not easily. If your strength is significantly lower, (-2 or -3, equivalent to a child perhaps), you wouldn't break through armor no matter how strong a blow you landed.

Scaled back up again, this means two things. One, if your attack power is -2 or lower compared to the enemies durability (and we may as well say Special vs Resistance is the same deal), you cannot damage that enemy at all. MAYBE if the enemy is completely immobilized, but otherwise you will never penetrate their damage resistance. Two, even if your attack power is EQUAL to their durability (10 vs 10 is the same as 2 vs 2), you cannot damage them with a weak or glancing blow or inappropriate damage type. No slashing vs the golem, and if they half-dodge or partially-parry the attack, it won't do damage.

>>12176

Oh, and if your attack power is +2 or more greater than there durability, you are facing a similar situation as vs flesh. A hero with 12 strength COULD slash an adamantine golem. He could probably cut the thing in half with a greatsword and a single good slice. Or scaled back down since most of your minions have 6 or 7 durability while heroes have 9 or 10 attack power, "hot chainsaw through butter" is about the right analogy.

>>12176

>>12177

I'm using the terms "strength" and "attack power" somewhat interchangably, mainly out of habit. I'm aware that "attack power" does not exclusively represent physical strength, please do not call me on that.

>>12176

>In order to significantly wound something when their durability=your strength, you need a fairly strong, perfectly landed blow

The autism continues. Doing damage to somebody with equal durability is as easy as one human slashing another unarmed human with a sword. The guy with the warhammer hitting an armored human is an example of somebody with 2 attack power killing a person with 2 durability and health that is wrapped in a much more durable shell in a single blow. It's an example of their attack being hindered by the armor and still generating enough force to kill the 2 durability creature underneath that armor with only 2 attack power. This CYOA heavily favors attack power over defense.

>If strength=durability is as easy to damage as a human without armor, while using a sword, a little girl could do it.

A little girl can injure an adult with a sword. It would be as easy for a hero with 10 attack and an enchanted hammer to damage a human-sized clump of adamantine as it would be for an average human with 2 attack to damage the body of an average human with a normal hammer.

>>12179

Armor is just as much a factor of durability as the exoskeleton the author was talking about. Durability includes all types of damage reduction. Plate armor has to fit somewhere on the scale between 1 and 10. Adamantine is absurdly more powerful than steel, and solid meter-thick adamantine is even stronger, so plate clearly can't be in the 8-10 range. It also can't be in the 3-8 range if humans are considered to be a 2. Humans are exceptionally frail, double their damage resistance 6 times over and you still wouldn't be anywhere near what you can do with plate.

Just accept it, the only way the CYOA makes sense is if armor is calculated as part of the 2 durability, and durability is therefor favored over attack power. It's just numbers.

Can you choose the same source of energy twice? Automatic x2 is the best choice. Everything else is really evil or troublesome to maximize output from.

>>12190

You can't have two of the same source.

>>12191

Do the minions come with basic equipment, clothes etc.? Like do dwarves have their tools with them?

>>12192

Servants spawn with appropriate clothing. The maid for example will come with a maid uniform. They'll also come with a few simple tools of their trade. Humanoid minions may spawn with simple clothing that is appropriate to their species. An ogre may spawn wearing what is seen in the picture. Note that this only applies to light clothing, not heavier armor. Skeletal warriors do not spawn in plate mail armor as their picture suggests. Weapons and armor must be forged for your minions. I need to head out now, have a good one.

>>12185

Except you don't have to cut or even break bones to kill a man, even if you are using blunt trauma breaking bones is unnecessary. Humans do not have bone armor. If some creature were completely covered in bone (above or below the skin) then it might matter.

Second, there is varying thickness and "give". When something is able to shift and deform under a blow like armor does, it absorbs far more of the impact force. Steel plate armor is probably thicker than skin not counting the padding underneath, and the adamantine golem being 3 meters tall should be around a meter thick. It has no "give" (which makes it prone to cracking), but even if it had the same strength as skin and bone it would still be thousands of times harder to cut through.

>>12197

It was already explained that durability is a general defense rating that considers the entire creature. Bone should be considered when determining the durability of a creature because it does increase the toughness of a creature. If somebody swung a sword at your arm your bone could stop that sword and it would cause less damage. If your bones were very thin and weak that sword might go all the way through and cause way more damage. People with very weak bones sustain serious injuries with far less force than somebody with strong bones. Look up the effects of osteoporosis on older people. Bone is a factor, but not even human skin was 256 times weaker than the strongest modern tensile steel when it was tested for tensile strength. I see no reason to assume that steel as a material should be rated more than 256 times stronger than human flesh in the other measurements. What all of this means is that somebody with max attack and a magic sword can damage steel easier than you could cause damage to human flesh and bone with a sword.

An elephant is well over a meter thick. Being a meter thick does make the elephant a little more durable but it’s not significant enough to be the difference between ‘’’less than’’’ 256 and 100,000 as you suggested. People can easily pierce and do harm to elephants with primitive weapons and average strength. It takes a lot more damage to bring the elephant down than a human because it's huge. As an RPG creature it would have low durability and a lot of hit points. Somebody who can cause damage to adamantine as if it were human flesh could do the exact same thing to an adamantine golem. So, to me it sounds like your argument against the adamantine golem is less about the durability of the golem and more about the hit points of the golem. There is a critical difference between the two.

The adamantine golem should have more hit points IF the only way to kill it is to break it into tiny pieces. If you only need to bash its head in or cause enough damage so that the magical enchantments that control its body can no longer function correctly then that’s another story. The latter is more common in fantasy and given its hit points I assume the latter.

>>12180

>solid meter-thick plate armour

Wait, what?!

How many years do we have to wait until Emelia's vampire spawn become useful?

>>12214

Adamantine golem, made of solid adamantine, about 3 meters tall. Translates to a little under a meter thick.

>>12216

5* meters tall. No, 3 meters wouldn't translate to a meter thick, but 5 definitely would.

>>12215

If you were to take a muscular adventurer or knight who was about as strong as an orc and turn them into a vampire, they would grow to be as strong as a minotaur in about 20 years. If they survived for 100 years, they would grow to be as strong as an ogre and as fast as a centaur. That is the limit for lesser vampires. Note that those are raw physical stats only. There are rare top-ranking adventurers who know how to strengthen their attacks with magical energy or ki to the point where their attack rating is already equal to or greater than an ogre. If those kinds of people were to become vampires, they would retain their abilities on top of their new strengthened form. Over time they would obtain the raw physical power of an ogre and the ability to boost their attacks with their own abilities. Those kinds of vampires would be able to face off against tier 4 minions. They would never be as powerful as Emilia, though.

>>12221

I think it does pay to have a good relationship with the other demon lord, since they have access to different creatures. If you traded some of your creatures for her creatures you could have shadow dragons in your army. I like the idea of stuffing the false demon core inside of a creature. Nice build.

Can heroes become more powerful without killing Demon Lords? Magnus with 11 in defense and resistance is basically unbeatable, holy shit.

>>12232

They can probably get stronger with a magic item or weapon. If you got max attack, a magic item and debilitate you can meet or overcome all of the heroes current stats. If you got Emilia also, you could further the gap

>>12232

He has 10 in those, not 11. It says that killing demon lords gives them and their god more power. Unlike you they probably don't grow in power unless they manage to kill a demon lord, which probably is a rare occurance.

You are unlikely to win against a hero in a fair 1 on 1 fight, but you have many advantages over them. For example they can sense how far away your core is within 10 km, but not where you are. You and your core guardians can sense how far away a hero within 10 km of your core is. This means you can get the jump on a hero, but it is very hard for one to do the same to you. The strength of the heroes means you cannot only depend on brute force.

>>12232

You could form an alliance with Nekdos's hero for a possible -4 on Magnus.

>>12232

Pretty much, this >>12235

If you read the text regarding the dead hero, he was basically ambushed, buried under a pile of bodies, and beaten to death. So as impressive as their stats and unique powers are, they can be killed, you just have to be smart/tricky af about it.

>>12235

>For example they can sense how far away your core is within 10 km, but not where you are

Easy to triangulate with distance alone. You can expect a hero to know the EXACT position of your core within minutes of hitting the edge of the 10km radius. I never saw anything about your core guardians knowing where the hero is, could you point out where it says that?

The heroes have every advantage. They choose when and how to attack, you are always on the defense. They can bring in allies of their own, they have better stats and more powerful spells and they have immortality methods that are impossible for you to track, and yes, they CAN ambush you by tunneling in where you don't expect. Also the next wave of heroes will likely know everything about you, while you know nothing at all about them.

>>12239

They'll know about how you killed the previous hero(es)…20 years ago.

You're telling me that you wouldn't switch up your tactics, get new monsters, equipment, or even, I don't know MOVE LOCATIONS and build a whole new dungeon/operations centre within those 20 years? The Core is only as mobile as you are after all.

Are you seriously telling me that you lack the initiative and creativity to actually, you plan and change strategies/tactics when you see fit?

>>12240

I think a lot of people haven't played a lot of video games where you have to cheese and "break the game" to beat higher difficulties. So when they see the hero's stats, they shit a brick and say it is too hard.

I want to link https://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/TuckersKobolds.pdf for people to read. It's where a dungeon of level 1 kobolds manages to shit on a party of epic ranked adventurers.

Also, if you're not very creative when it comes to this stuff, I would recommend taking Elrineth + Demon Scholars to help strategize.

>>12242

Triangulation is more difficult when you have limited space to move around in, so you might know they are coming but not from where, whereas they can find the exact location of your core before they ever start digging. Anyway I just couldn't find that line, so thanks.

Speaking of digging, it doesn't take very long at all thanks to earth magic, so even if you do find them you don't have a lot of time to counter.

>>12240

Not wouldn't, can't. If by some stroke of one in a million luck I manage to actually kill a single hero ever, it probably took every single thing I had. Every monster, every tactic, there's nothing left that they won't know about. Yes I can summon more monsters and re-set the traps with a different coat of paint (location is irrelevant given how easy it is for heroes to find you), but it's all same shit different day.

>>12243

Here is something fun I looked up, average bone evaporates at 1500 Celsius and skin gets quickly damaged at 80. At 4 magic, a hellhound reaches 1000 Celsius, and if a red dragon got a max of 8 magic. If that stacks like attack power, that's 16 hotter which is more than twice hotter than the surface of the sun. A hero that faces a dragon will really be sweating.

>>12245

Well I can't read, a dragon's max is 7, still hotter than the surface of the sun at 8000 degrees Celsius.

Well I'm going to make another build since most of this is people debating whether a hero can be killed, even though one was killed by a massive horde of goblins and orcs along with an army of soldiers.

Love this CYOA by the way, stuck on the character creator debating a theme.

Idea for ya, eyes could have choice to be a flat color, no iris or pupil, or straight black like an abyss.

>>12246

The hero wasn't killed by orcs and goblins. They were killed by "worse things" that live in the wilderness (shadow dragons). It's definitely possible to overpower and kill the heroes though.

>>12247

It doesn't say what killed the dumbass, only he and the army he was gallantly leading got ambushed and butchered.

I think the reason I've had so much trouble with this CYOA is because Heroes are narratively/thematically meant to be the underdogs, and in spite of being the underdogs, they almost always win. Just to win out over an underdog hero the villain has to be exceptionally good at what he does. And of course, even when he does win there's always another hero. It's impossible to keep winning forever no matter how good you are.

The above is talking about hero/villain dynamics in general. In every setting ever the hero is the underdog because that's how the narrative works. Here though, that's flipped around. The Heroes are instead given every possible advantage from the start, and they still have that "always another hero" clause on the off chance that these overpowered sons of bitches could possibly fail. And here you are, needing to survive at least 300 to 1000 years of this crap just to break even, not take over the world, just escape and find a life possibly worth living. Against typical underdog heroes surviving 100 years would be an incredible feat.

>>12244

Does energy gathering count though a warp gate? Like I put the Demon core next to a portal and it opens to the center of the city, can I gather energy through it?

>>12252

I think the advantage is heavily on the side of the demon lord and that advantage only grows with time. Sure you have to survive for a few hundred years, but as time goes on you grow stronger so survival becomes much easier.

>>11929

Do creatures keep their stats after I use an incarnation circle? If I turn a dragon into a dwarf would it create the world's strongest dwarf?

>>12260

>servants

2 danuki merchants

1 demon scholar

>>12254

The demon core can gather energy through the pocket plane portal, but not through normal portals. If it could gather energy from normal portals then you could have 100 witches open portals to hundreds of villages at once. That would be completely broken.

>>12261

They keep their memories but not their stats. Their stats are determined by their new form.

>>12260

You only need to buy a minion or servant once. When you buy a minion or servant what you are buying is the ability to summon that type of creature. When you have the ability to summon a minion or servant you can summon as many of them as you want, as long as you have enough DPU. Core guardians are different from normal minions in that you only get one of them per purchase.

>>12264

oh alright

>Core guardians are different from normal minions in that you only get one of them per purchase

so you have to unlock the type of thing before you can spend the points to get the guardian you want

thanks for clearing that up

>>12265

You don't buy the core guardian "type". You directly buy a single core guardian when you purchase a core guardian. You only buy the "type" for minions and servants. So, you can have entire armies of minions and servants, but you'll never be able to have more than 8 core guardians (assuming you buy them all).

>>12266

r8 my build senpai

>Mutations

Horn - Singular horn protruding from center of forehead right under hairline.

Three Tails - Three smooth scaled lizard tails

Two Arms - Second set of arms

Eight tentacles - Two columns of four tentacles

~~Less worried about actual combat ability and more aesthetics on this one

>Stats

Attack Power:8

Combat Speed: 6

Movement Speed: 6

Health: 10

Durability: 8

Resistance: 8

Special Power: 6

~~Hoping to make myself at least dangerous in combat and not be insta-gibbed if a hero gets close to me while I'm assisting my minions and core guardians in fighting them. As well as be able to defeat ultra-ranked adventurers if for some reason they ever reach me.

>Powers and Abilities

6 Enhancements

Regeneration

Shapeshifting

Space

Debilitate

Magic Eye

Contract Magic

~~Maybe not the best reason, I just picked up things that looked cool to me, with debilitate and magic eye just being nearly always useful in any combat encounter

>DPU Generation

Automatic

~~Safe, efficient and independent

>Minions, Specialty Forsaken

Tier 1

Lizardmen

Tier 2

Jorogumo

Minotaur

Tier 3

Gargoyle

Succubus

Tier 4

Fallen Angel

Fairy Queen

~~Picked up all the ones of my specialization because that gets me the largest immediate diversity. Minotaur provides some muscle that doesn't cost an absurd amount of DPU to summon, Succubi are handy once I get a few of them and a Demon Scholar and Fairy Queens are a-tier support.

Servants

Dwarven Craftsmen

Forest Elf

Danuki Merchant

Demon Scholar

Spirit Enchanter

~~All are just plain useful to have, goal 1 is to get a Danuki Merchant and Demon Scholar to help organize the madness that will be this endeavour. I'm not a leader or businessman, and that's what I'm going to need when the gods do eventually notice me. I have time, but I'd like to get the beginnings of an actual structure before then.

Core Guardian - Yoko

~~So, I like kitsunes, sue me. My secondary goal early on will probably be to if not get rid of, temper her hate boner for humanity. I'm not sure how I will accomplish this but I am going to try. Outside of the inconvenient 'Humans are worthless trash' mentality she's an amazing asset to have

Creation Powers

Luxuries

Talisman of Warding

Interference Crystal

Respawn Crystal

~~ Luxuries because I'm a shallow bitch. The Talisman is fairly cheap and just super helpful. Intereference crystal so tele-ganks don't happen. Respawn Crystal can be used to make sure respawned creatures show up in more helpful locations.

Drawbacks

Weakness

~~Wanted to spend two global points without being indebted to Anastasia for them. Will need to be careful around holy magic users until I can afford to pay Anastasia to reverse it. While this means I will still want to pay her back at some point I have a little more flexibility on that payment than if I used the two of the ten she offered earlier.

Location - Edeomea

~~Less densely populated means it will probably take more time for me to be found if I'm not making a habit of killing people

General idea is to hide and wait until I can get at least 1 of each servant summoned, with tier 1 and 2 minions sprinkled in around each of those being summoned. Build up some kind of dungeon fortifications. Be as undisruptive as possible and consolidate. Using the knowledge I can get from the Demon Scholars to prepare for the heroes when the time comes.

Hey Anduin? Quick question here.

Are the Core Guardians a one time offer at Character Creation or can we save up to buy them using Global Points later down the line?

>>12270

Oh and furthermore, if I do take Debt Slave, does the fivehold increase apply only to extra amount given from the Drawback or as a whole to the Debt already owed?

>>12270

You can buy core guardians later down the line. The increased penalty for debt slave applies only to the 5 extra points.

Do insubordinate/free/true born elves, goblins, beast men, or dwarfs have souls worth harvesting? Or is it literally only humans. Can they become vampires? Can witches?

Can your demon core be moved without using the 'teleport demon core' power?

Like, can you put it on a cart or a ship or something? 10km per day is a little slow if you decide you need to move to a different country or something.

>>12274

Only living humans can be harvested for DPU. Witches are not normal mages. Their powers come from the abyss. Even though they may appear to be normal humans at first glance, witches have been tainted by the abyss and are no longer normal humans. So, they give no DPU.

>>12275

Yes it can be moved without teleporting it, if you're willing to transport it manually. It is fragile though, so you'll need to be very careful. Don't drop it and you should be fine.

>>12276

To clarify, does that mean that non-human sapient species cannot be harvested for DPU? Even if the beings in question are not minions?

>>12272

Okay, understood, thanks for the answers!

>>12275

>10km per day is a little slow if you decide you need to move to a different country or something.

If you can fly or teleport, this becomes a lot simpler, if somewhat irritating.

I need a clarification here, are Fairy Queens capable of flight?

>>12276

>It is fragile though, so you'll need to be very careful. Don't drop it and you should be fine.

You should re-think that, because now we have to worry about cave-ins and other random occurrences instakilling us. A hero could probably murder us just by creating an artificial earthquake. I would have expected the core to be as tough as any magical artifact, which is to say it would require a direct magical or quasi-magical attack to damage.

>>12276

Hey Anduin? About Enchanted weapons/armour, what's the limit on enhancing our stats through them?

I know that there can only be one enchanted item on a person/being, but that one enchanted item, how many enchantments can it hold?

Not keeping your living heart in a cubic meter of enchanted titanium reinforced with wards, inside a pocket dimension the portal to which is itself surrounded by a tetrahedron of layered witches portals that lead back to themselves, in the deepest cavern you can dig, on the moon, of a planet near the one you start on. ISHYGDIGYDO

>>12276

How big are these Cores anyways?

>>12278

Yes, only living humans can be harvested for DPU.

>>12281

Fairy Queens can fly.

>>12282

I specifically made note that there were no large scale magics like "earthquake" and "volcano" to worry about on the last page. There are also ways to protect the core. If it's inside a pocket plane it is safe from cave-ins. You can also encapsulate it in a stronger material.

>>12284

At most an enchanted item can only enhance one single stat by one. That represents a twofold increase for most stats, so it can be pretty significant.

>>12292

They're not very big. There's a picture of one on the first page. It's the glowing orb that the girl has her hands wrapped around.

>>12267

Lots of fallen minions, I like it. Hiding out is definitely the way to go for low debt builds. If you boost your combat speed over the next two decades you'll be pretty close to a core guardian yourself.