>>928378
Actually had to rewrite most of this because I'd glossed over the second sentence.
>What you're saying may be true for their superheroes, but not at all for their stories in general. Just using popular examples…
Which is why I'm only talking about their superhero stories, which most of the examples you've listed are not (Jojo comes closest, but I haven't read much of it, so I can't honestly comment). I thought it would be clear that I was simply comparing the two approaches to the genre of capeshit. If we included all of shonen manga, of course the comparison becomes unfair. You've given one side a much larger pool of stories of wildly varying origin and genres to choose from, especially given how a lot (most?) manga start out as light novels.
>A lot of japanese heroes "go against the grain" because they think society is being unjust and they seek out true justice
Hmm. I may be unclear here because "hero" means both protagonist and a general term for a certain group of people within these stories. The definition I'm using for capeshit is, I think, more narrow than yours, so I thought there wouldn't be confusion. Reread the sentence you quoted. The part immediately after you cut the quote off reads,
>with the exception of the main characters.
i.e. the main characters may see the underlying problems with their world or society, but the general profession of "heroes" don't. BHA obviously has Stain seeing this as a slight on the name of true heroes. OPM has its newbie busters, and people like Amai mask, and in general gives the impression that people like Saitama and Mumen Rider are the exception rather than the rule.
But here's an interesting thought exercise; what differentiates Ichiro from Bleach's definition of "true justice" from Luffy's conception? What about Deku and Mumen Rider? You keep saying that manga has more variations on hero stories, but 1) I think your definition of what a hero story is is too broad, and 2) you're too focused on implementation and context in these stories to notice that their heroes are philosophically nearly identical.
Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are each treated as heroes with their own perspectives, their own ideas of how justice should be done, and their own valid reasons for believing that. They can have actual interplay between those ideals. The Punisher and Daredevil is an even more extreme example. I've never seen that kind of interaction in manga; perhaps you can enlighten me as to where it is? Specifically, heroes who DIFFER in their opinions as to what is right and wrong, rather than one just being the golden voice of justice reaching out to the wrong-doer like a prophet.
>I don't even know what anime you're basing that statement off, it's not true even for BNHA.
I'll admit, I was getting a bit hyperbolic with that statement. Let me break it down a little. In Western capeshit, the heroes occupy the same position that demigods do in Greek myth. They are superhuman, and treated as such. They carry the world on their shoulders. They are treated like prime agents, and when a writer is allowed to do what he wants, they change the world (Watchmen, Injustice, anything under the Elseworlds imprint). By contrast, the superheroes in Japanese capeshit - and note that I'm not saying all shonen manga, but specifically capeshit - are salarymen or at best pop idols. They may be culturally influential, but they're not movers and shakers in the way that Superman or Iron Man are.
>Kinda like Gotham City, only things in manga actually change.
Okay, which Japanese capeshit has the society actually getting better? I would love to read this, as I thought this genre was too new to the manga market to show this kind of change.