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/co/ - Comics & Cartoons

Where cartoons and comics collide!
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File: 5152d00393ad5f1⋯.jpg (1.89 MB, 4032x3024, 4:3, 454545.jpg)

 No.1048128

>Online friend has a college class that revolves around comics

>He was complaining because she wouldn't let him read some ongoing comics for a project

>Pic related is the list of approved comics for it

>The comics for the year to read include BNHA, Ms Marvel, Wakanda Forever, Black Panther: A Nation Under Our Feet, FMA, Maus, Kindred, March, and Dare to Disappoint

>He defended her when I said she's got a shit line-up because 'she has a doctorate'

Ignoring the autism at work here, what would you guys have as a line-up if you got to teach a class about comics? Certainly not have the class half just shitty Superhero comics, including two entire Black Panther comics.

 No.1048129

File: 954fc650ec3e05b⋯.jpg (1.03 MB, 3024x4032, 3:4, 454545.jpg)

>tfw 8ch decides to flip your photo

Here.


 No.1048131

>>1048129

Most of those are pretty shitty it seems, but the Jim Henson ones look pretty good.


 No.1048159

>>1048129

Most of it seems shit. Is Red Sonja still written by Gail Simone or did they get someone else?


 No.1048164

Jesus CHRIST what a woeful line-up. Fake geek girl professor detected REEEEEEE

srsly, though, I bet I could come up with a better list right out of my ass.

A Contract with God

American Splendor

Understanding Comics

Akira

Maus

New Gods

The Incal

Airtight Garage

Bone

Anything by Robert Crumb, Vaughn Bode

Barefoot Gen

Watchmen

Cerebus

Transmetropolitan

Preacher

100 Bullets

The Sandman

Y: The Last Man

Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind

Lone Wolf and Cub

From Hell

MW

Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers

Yummy Fur


 No.1048166

>>1048128

>Watchmen

>Akira

I wouldn't be taking comic majors or courses though. Not only are they a waste of money, they are a waste of time as those courses don't transfer whenever you switch unis/majors.

Non-STEM courses are already pozzed, but you should at least take the core ones.

>>1048164

I avoided those courses because female leftist professors in non-STEM courses are the worst. There's no sense of objectivity when it comes to taking their courses, your grades entirely depend on you kissing their ass by blindly agreeing with their bullshit world view. They flunk or reduce your GPA if you dare to disagree with them by nitpicking, that happened to plenty of my friends.


 No.1048183

>teaching comics as a form of literature

>when comics are their own medium

That's your problem right there.


 No.1048184

Ideally you want a wide range of genres from various ages and countries. Tin-Tin, Heavy Metal, 2000AD, Dragon Ball, Tales from the Crypt, TV21, The Beano, and so fourth.


 No.1048198

It's a pretty bad sign when a teacher is cribbing off the bestsellers' list. For fuck's sake, some of those approved ongoings are aimed at kids.

>what would you guys have as a line-up

Personally, I'd just ban most manga and superhero comics out of practically.

>>1048159

Simone's been off the book for years, and Dynamite keeps relaunching it every few issues. Mark Russell's writing now.


 No.1048226

>>1048128

> college class that revolves around comics

Well, there is his problem right there. He should cut his losses and quit, get a real degree instead.


 No.1048233

File: 9f0f0a06fb6ca1f⋯.jpeg (2.12 MB, 1752x5426, 876:2713, modern art courses.jpeg)

Anyone have that image of cartoon/comic/graphic novel artists talking about how they were self-taught?


 No.1048234


 No.1048235

File: 8ca1b2baa3c6bf6⋯.jpg (211.22 KB, 1200x900, 4:3, DyHd7tXUUAA5VYz.jpg)

File: 25e65244adb2818⋯.jpg (182.7 KB, 900x1200, 3:4, DyHeF1UU0AA-_5e.jpg)

>>1048128

>>1048129

Is this your college store?


 No.1048243

>>1048128

>>1048128

At least Hotel Oblivion is not bad.

>Ignoring the autism at work here, what would you guys have as a line-up if you got to teach a class about comics?

Well, you should cover as many different eras as possible and get books that have good examples that show what medium is capable of. List should include European comics, American ones, and Manga. Must haves would be:

For European books:

>Incal

>Dylan Dog: Johnny Freak

>Thorgal - one of the older tomes and one of the more recent ones

>Asterix - almost any tome would do

>Corto Maltese: Under the Sign of Capricorn

For American ones:

>Frank Miller's Daredevil or Dark Knight

>New Gods

>Original Plastic Man

>Almost any of Don Rosa's Scrooge books

>Asterios Polyp

Manga:

>Devilman

>The Enigma of Amigara Fault

>Vagabond

>Vinland Saga

>20th Century Boys

>Azmunanga Daioh


 No.1048244

>>1048235

Anyone who would unironically recommend Ms Marvel as anything but an example of how NOT to tell a story or present sequential art has no place being any kind of teacher.


 No.1048256

You better not be implying that FullMetal Alchemist is bad, because that's just plain wrong. Hell, I finished rereading it yesterday, fucking blast of a journey. One of the best things about FMA is the fact that it had a definite conclusion, and a satisfying one at that. I wouldn't be surprized if the only reason FMA was included in the list is because Hiromu Arakawa is a woman, which is frankly belittling her abilities as a writer and artist.


 No.1048259

God that looks dreadful, though tbh its seems like the type of class I would have signed up for freshman year, but would have dropped after seeing how shit it would be.

As far as a line up of comics goes, I'd also say you would want a large variety of books from different countries and eras. It would probably be a good idea to require they read at least one thing from America, Europe, and Japan. Also require them to read something from each era. That way they get a broader understanding of the medium.

Stuff like

Stardust the super wizard

Golden age Captain Marvel

New gods

Steranko's s.h.i.e.l.d

Silver age spiderman

Dark knight returns

Watchmen

Static

Spawn

Allstar superman

Marvels

The authority by Ellis

Sweet tooth

Invisibles

Transmetropolitan

Hellboy

Sandman

Strange talent of luther strode

Judge dredd

Thorgal

Dylan dog

Fullmetal alchemist

Dragon ball

Berserk

Hellsing

Akira


 No.1048276

Would Junji Ito's work be a good recommendation? at least for the artstyle?


 No.1048279

>>1048276

Junji Ito is a masterclass on grotesque body horror. Some of his works actually send down chills down my spine, which is way more than I can say about most horror stories.


 No.1048283

>>1048279

Have you read that story he made about a cat he and his gf adopted? Shit would be pure SOL bullshit with any other artist, but that guy managed to turn it into an oportunity to draw him making weird grotesque faces. It's fucking great.


 No.1048285

File: ca054594b0af502⋯.png (1.63 MB, 1373x858, 1373:858, manga_vs_comic.png)


 No.1048288

File: e077280444c584d⋯.jpg (10.06 KB, 480x360, 4:3, Fitz.jpg)

>>1048285

>Comics can't be cinematic.

>Or move stories with slower pace.

>Manga isn't stiff

Don't start with this shit again, take it to the Wakfu thread if you want to argue about how sub genres divided by geography are two completely different things.


 No.1048403

>>1048285

Manga is also told on smaller, more numerous pages in black and white. Page priorities are rather different when you have as many pages as you want to get information across.


 No.1048406

>>1048129

>no "Long Tomorrow"

Discarded.


 No.1048437

>>1048128

Superman: For the Man Who Has Everything

Understanding Comics

Valerian & Laureline

Tintin

Blankets

Safe Area Goražde (or any other non-fiction journalist comics from Joe Sacco)


 No.1048442

>>1048285

Is Two Face always a shitty character, or does he just need a good writer?


 No.1048487

>>1048442

I keep hearing The Long Halloween was good.

I liked that Bruce Timm story with him in Batman: Black and White.


 No.1049078

File: aad144dd56f7dbf⋯.jpg (1.18 MB, 2037x3056, 2037:3056, Dragon Ball Z v22-175.jpg)

>>1048256

Nah, I don't think it's bad, it's just incredibly basic and it's not the best manga you could ever read. Everyone and their mom knows of it it but it didn't really shake up the industry in any meaningful way, and her art style is nothing to write home about.

If you're going to talk about mangaka who everyone and their mom knows, you might as well go for putting Dragon Ball on the list instead. Toriyama may have sucked at writing long-term action manga, but he's a god of art and composition.

It'd also obviously be nice to separate European, Asian, and American comics to discuss the cultural implications. Like the erotica common in European comics that gets heavily censored if they dare get published in America, and the difference between their art and composition a bit like mentioned >>1048285 here.


 No.1049091

>>1048487

It is good. It's like watching a crime show and less like capeshit and is mostly about mafia.


 No.1049100

>>1048403

>Smaller, more numerous pages in black and white.

Hey I never knew the Scots and Italians have been making manga all this time.


 No.1049219

File: 1d1747d80b9d900⋯.jpg (1.83 MB, 1950x2700, 13:18, Empowered v3-129.jpg)

>>1049100

You're deathly close to realizing American comics are, for the most part, utter shit and completely contrary to what comics should be, and can only sustain themselves by making themselves look flashy with colored art(which backfires by making them spend more time coloring when they could spend that time working on more pages).

The best American comics–and not just best story, but best art and best composition–tend to be written more like manga or European comics. It's fucking contrary to the medium to have constant skipping around scenes like they do in American comics constantly.

Pic related- Empowered. American comic that draws heavily from manga. Has damn good page layout/composition.


 No.1049248

>>1049219

You're right of course, but don't expect anyone here but me to agree.

Unfortunately, like the lower tier of the Western artists who, like Chris-Chan, just adopt speed lines, big eyes and sweat drops and think that's "manga", the lower tier of readers cannot see past the speedlines, big eyes and sweat drops to see the real innovations that manga can offer the west, in story-telling techniques, composition, and camera angles, not to mention mature themes as opposed to mature content. Hell, it took America about 50 years to pick up on decompression as a storytelling technique, and even then they misused it horribly.

All they see is big eyes and speed lines, and they won't read it. Mental blind spot. That's why Empowered, Gold Digger and Spinnerette are memoryholed around these parts. Well, that and Gold Digger being stigmatised as "furry", and Spinnerette stigmatised as "lesbian".


 No.1049252

File: 05cee3f669ed00a⋯.jpg (129.33 KB, 935x686, 935:686, tumblr_p75v6qY8NH1v7k5b5o1….jpg)

File: 04d2389a17f4a98⋯.jpg (398.22 KB, 1096x1132, 274:283, bu_carnivora_55.jpg)

>>1049248

This is the problem. A lot of people only think in terms of 'American' and 'Japanese' and don't know that American comics are just inept and European comics follow very closely to Japanese. Even though it's more common for them to be colored, they're not as painstakingly done as American comics and often heavily use watercolor. Because, you know. The important part is the fucking flow and readability.

Most American comics are no better than reading a goddamn picturebook.


 No.1052045

File: af788f3ab44bed2⋯.gif (2.35 MB, 500x288, 125:72, size_restricted_4dispost.gif)


 No.1052046

>>1049219

Have they always been shit or what?

>what a comic should be

So what should a comic be?

>>1049248

>muh stigmas

Kill yourself.

>>>/tumblr/


 No.1058639

bump


 No.1058642

>>1048243

Where the African comics at?


 No.1058665

File: 6180f5cc22d7fba⋯.jpg (77.5 KB, 1080x822, 180:137, IMG_20190330_130251.jpg)

>>1048166

>I avoided those courses because female leftist professors in non-STEM courses are the worst. There's no sense of objectivity when it comes to taking their courses, your grades entirely depend on you kissing their ass by blindly agreeing with their bullshit world view. They flunk or reduce your GPA if you dare to disagree with them by nitpicking, that happened to plenty of my friends.

THIS FUCKING THIS

>>1048128

I vehemently refuse to believe such class exists.


 No.1058683

>>1058665

>I vehemently refuse to believe such class exists.

You better fucking believe it exists. The English department needs something so kids can get the elective credits needed for graduation.


 No.1058692

File: d7db5b95bff4d1b⋯.png (129.61 KB, 803x1121, 803:1121, greendale.png)

>>1048128

>a college class that revolves around comics

This guy going to Greendale Community College?


 No.1058754

>>1058642

Well I think we storytimed one african comic here once. It was about two brothers that want revenge on a warlord that destroyed their village. The arstyle had this mix of traditional tribal african mixed with space technology. It kind of reminded me of Samurai Jack.


 No.1058787

About 10 years ago I took one of these classes as my 1st year writing elective requirement.

I might be missing a few things but we read the following

Will Eisner: A contract with God

Understanding Comics: Scott McCloud

Habibibi

Persepolis part 1 + 2

Maus part 1 + 2

Watchmen

There was a definite leftist bent but in 2008 things weren't nearly as retarded as they are now, and most of the stuff was good books at least.

We also had to do a free-choice project, with a recommended list of graphic novels to choose from. Most of the recommendations and projects were pretty good.

Projects I can remember were Sandman, 300, Frank Miller's Dark Knight series, Jimmy Corrigan, but there were like 20 or so in total and a pretty good range of stuff from classics to mopey teenage girl stuff, as well as a few newer things like this one kid who did Walking Dead (this was before it turned into a tv show).


 No.1058797

File: 1871007150c3e3b⋯.jpg (148.83 KB, 794x1123, 794:1123, layout_20issue_201.jpg)

>>1058642

>>1058754

It is called Kayin and Abeni. It was pretty damn good in both art and writing, and guys making it seem to have a decent grasp of comics.

What helps the book a lot is that one author is actually African. He understands his tribe's culture and folklore and included it in the comic. That makes the book far more interesting than trash like Black Panther, which just slaps superficial mess of stereotypical African aesthetic on top of a generic story.

>>1058692

>>1058665

Many schools have these sorts of classes. In my university there were three. One about the history of comics, other one about the 'hero archetype' in human culture and comics were one of the mediums covered, and the last one was a standard college level English class that read comics instead of other literature, much like >>1058787 describes.

I took all three of them, and they were all generic text analysis, but filled with redditors and people obsessed with MCU.

Only upside is that it lead me to accidentally stumble into a TA who actually is interested in comics. I introduced her to European comics, she did me to manga and niche American comic books.

Courses were relatively political propaganda free. Mainly because school was basically controlled by STEAM+Business departments which siphoned money from Liberal Arts, and there were almost no students from upper social strata. That was enough to keep the militant leftist infestation.


 No.1058840

File: 4c1b1eb6deb39c9⋯.png (3.86 MB, 4820x4670, 482:467, goodcomics.png)


 No.1058849

File: 3f66741e93886dd⋯.png (231.91 KB, 323x454, 323:454, medieval why.png)

>>1058797

>In my university there were three. One about the history of comics, other one about the 'hero archetype' in human culture and comics were one of the mediums covered, and the last one was a standard college level English class that read comics instead of other literature


 No.1059003

>>1058797

Did you date the TA?


 No.1059030

>>1058797

I read a little bit of Kayin and Abeni, and it was pretty refreshing, if only because the author had the distinct intention of telling a story with the mythology of his culture. We've seen far too many other faggots use the idea of storytelling from a black perspective as an excuse to use comics to soapbox and preach about their moronic beliefs and insecurities.




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