No.1007671
Lee takes another victim.
https://archive.is/jJewC
No.1007673
I've been preparing for this day.
No.1007674
>That URL
/pol/ and /x/ have merged
No.1007676
>>1007671
>The artist was found dead in his apartment on June 29 and is believed to have passed away two days prior.
He died as he lived.
No.1007682
John Byrne tells how he first met Steve Ditko by being a massive autist.
>A bunch of us were in Mark Gruenwald's office, and a "debate" arose over whether Doctor Octopus still had the control wheels on the front of his chest plate. I said yes, obviously, and had in fact made this a key element of a recent (then) issue of FANTASTIC FOUR. Others disagreed. Finally, someone said we should ask Tom DeFalco, as he was writing Spider-Man at the time. We all trooped down to his office and poked our heads in, asking him whether he thought Octopus still had the control wheels. DeFalco basically shrugged and said "I dunno. Whadda you think, Steve?"
>And we all turned in unison to see Steve Ditko sitting in a chair by the door, out of our line of sight as we entered. Ditko said "Whatever you need for the story."
No.1007684
Ditko was truly a Great man, created some of my favorite underrated characters
No.1007685
Time to read some classics. Man had a proper legacy.
No.1007696
In honor of Steve Ditko I'm posting the entirety of Amazing Fantasy #15 and The Amazing Spider-Man #1
No.1007704
No.1007713
>>1007711
>>1007704
No need to thank me, Steve deserves to be remembered.
No.1007718
>Steve Ditko is dead
>Stan Lee is alive
This is an objectively shitty situation.
No.1007719
>>1007713
Thanks anyway. I'll post Mr. A later.
No.1007728
>>1007676
>Ditko has no known survivors. He is believed never to have married.
That nigga died alone, unloved and forgotten. That is pretty depressing way to go. It reminded me that Fletcher Hanks died in the cold of hypothermia and everyone celebrated his death, including his family.
No.1007741
>>1007728
>unloved and forgotten
Like hell.
No.1007747
>>1007728
>That nigga died alone, unloved, and forgotten
That's the way he wanted it. Ditko was crazy like that.
No.1007749
>>1007741
Its the unfortunate reality, anon. Ask the random normalfag and they will say Stan Lee singlehandly created the Marvel Universe. Few know Jack Kirby's part, and even fewer acknowledge Dikto's contributions due to his crazy Objectivist politics.
>>1007747
Still, he deserves a modicum of acknowledgement. But knowing the progressive media, they will probably make sure he goes down forgotten by history and memory hole him.
No.1007751
>>1007750
I googled it and apparently he used to beat his wife and his kids before abandoning them.
He died in a park, probably drunk as hell.
No.1007754
>>1007749
>muh liberals
How much of a fucking faggot do you have to be to use a man's death to bitch about politics?
>>1007750
>>1007751
Hanks beat his wife and children and spent all his money on alcohol for himself and his buddies. He left his young son responsible for providing for the family, and later stole all the money he earned when he abandoned them.
They were glad he was gone and shed no tears when he died.
No.1007758
>died last week, found after two days.
Fuck.
No.1007775
>>1007671
>The artist was found dead in his apartment on June 29 and is believed to have passed away two days prior
That's a pretty sad way to died, did he not have any friends or familiar that noticed his absence?
No.1007780
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>1007671
That's a shame. I hoped that this stubborn bastard would outlive Lee. Time to revisit Ross' 'In Search Of Steve Ditko' documentary.
>>1007749
>>1007728
>>1007676
>Forgotten
Not really. He became somewhat obscure, but is still brought up when it comes to early Marvel. Many artists with significant contributions got even shorter end of the stick. Wally Wood, for example, saved Daredevil from fading into obscurity, and is responsible for Power Girl's ample chest and for her boob window. He is as important to Daredevil as Miller, yet never mentioned even by most the most obsessed Devilfags.
>>1007718
If that makes it any better, Lee's current life sounds miserable. People are fighting over his custody, his money, his property, they are after his reputation, and there were even reports of people stealing his blood.
The most annoying thing will be the over the top mourning Lee will get, while others arguably better creators barely got any in comparison.
>>1007775
Ditko lived a hermit's life. Being an old 90 year old man without descendants, most of his friends probably died already. If he had any living family left, majority of them were probably nephews, nieces, grandnephew and grandnieces. And let's be hones, how often do most people visit their grandparent's siblings?
No.1007848
>>1007676
Is he the original incel?
No.1007854
As bad as it sounds, I was hoping Steve would out-live Stan.
I wanted to hear from Steve the real truth behind everything.
Stan, you can tell, lies. About everything.
Alas, we lost a great artist and, in my opinion, the best Spider-Man artist.
No.1007858
>>1007854
>I wanted to hear from Steve the real truth behind everything.
Steve had the opportunity to tell the truth for fifty good years before he died and never did. Stan dying wouldn't have changed that
No.1007859
It's funny. I randomly decided to watch the MTV Spider-Man series this morning, before I'd heard Ditko died, and as I was watching I remember thinking that animation wise the way Spider-Man looks and moves in that series is probably very, very close to the way Ditko envisioned it
No.1007867
>>1007865
>razorfaggot
Die, faggot
No.1007868
Time to story-time his post-Marvel work and his descent into Objectivism fueled madness.
It's important to remember that Ditko was very much in demand after he left Marvel, but his personal beliefs made him hard to work with.
No.1007869
>>1007865
>How many hit piece articles will we see from comic journalists and overrated hack British writers attacking Steve Ditko? IDW employees already shitting on him.
>it's a hit piece if it tells the truth
Sometimes, in comics, talent fucks themselves instead of being fucked by the company. Steve was one of those cases, and you'd know that if you were such a casual faggot.
No.1007873
>>1007872
The first appearance of The Question, who was very much the prototype to the ultimate Ditko creation, Mr. A. The Question allowed Ditko to explore more of his personal beliefs, until Ditko felt that The Question didn't go far enough to promote the ideals of rational self-interest and black and white morality.
No.1007874
>>1007873
End of Blue Beetle #1.
No.1007875
>>1007873
>who was very much the prototype to the ultimate Ditko creation, Mr. A.
Mr A predates The Question
No.1007876
>>1007671
Best artist of Squirrel Girl still, since he created her and all.
No.1007883
>>1007875
Yes and no. The Question first appeared in June of 1967 in Blue Beetle #1. Mr. A appeared in 1967 in Witzend #3. I haven't been able to find the month in which Witzend #3 was published, so it's up in the air which came first.
No.1007893
Blue Beetle #2, and we get the origin of Ted Kord and what happened to the original Blue Beetle.
No.1007900
>>1007899
End of Blue Beetle #2
No.1007935
>>1007869
-t. (((Stan Lieber)))
No.1007964
>>1007935
Stan Lee never claimed Steve fucked himself, he just pleads ignorance as to why Steve left and to why Jack Kirby hated him for that matter
No.1007975
>>1007964
>Jack Kirby hated him for that matter
Jack Kirby did not hate Stan Lee. He was angry with him for awhile, but the last time the two spoke, he forgave Stan. The story was from Stan Lee himself, so take it with a grain of salt, but I believe it. Jack Kirby didn't seem like the kind of man to hold a grudge. If anything, at least Jack's wife Roz forgave Stan. She was going to give Stan a hug at Jack's funeral, to show that all's forgiven, but Stan ducked out before the service ended.
As for Steve, well Steve always hated Stan, going so far as to deliberately sabotage the art in Spider-Man comics just to cause problems for him. Stan would get Steve's pencils, write the script, only to get the pages back and Steve went ahead and changed all the characters when he inked it.
No.1007980
>>1007975
>Stan would get Steve's pencils, write the script, only to get the pages back and Steve went ahead and changed all the characters when he inked it.
I know you're talking shit because it didn't work that way. The art goes to inks before it gets scripted and lettered. If anything, you have the story backwards. It's Stan who would change Ditko's stories. Stan would add pop art sound effects, which Ditko didn't like and he admitted this to several people. Ditko would also do stuff like draw a crowd of college protestors and when Stan would script it he'd have Spider-Man say something like 'Hey, I'm with you guys!'
No.1007983
>>1007975
>but I believe it
Pic related
No.1008012
>>1007775
Steve Ditko was pretty much the original shut-in incel. Hell, his version of Spider-Man was basically an ugly, unpopular, socially ostracized motherfucker right up until the moment Lee and Romita ruined it by turning Peter into yet another handsome, Chad-esque "nerd" who was actually a relatively happy dude even without being Spider-Man which effectively defeated the entire purpose of Spider-Man being Peter Parker's escape from his horrible, shitty life.
No.1008028
>>1008012
>Steve Ditko was pretty much the original shut-in incel.
He actually drew adult comics at some point. I suspect he had some knowledge of something
No.1008033
>>1008028
Ditko did porn? You realise you have to storytime that, now, don't you?
No.1008045
>>1008033
Actually, Ditko's studio mate Eric Stanton's the one who actually did the porn. But Ditko would ink his pages, and occasionally do the layouts for them, so I stand by 'he probably knew something about something'. In return Stanton would help him out now and then on Spider-Man. Apparently the idea of the webs coming out of Spider-Man's hands was Stanton's idea
https://alexbuchet.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/oddity-4-steve-ditko-eric-stanton/
No.1008048
>>1007719
You still planning on storytiming Mr. A? I'm intrigued about it, I've never really read anything of Ditko as I got into comics pretty late and I don't see anywhere to read or buy it online, the only real seller of Mr. A I can see is on Ditko's blog and there's no interface, you just mail an envelope of cash to the office and a list of what you want I guess. And who knows if that's still available.
No.1008053
>>1008028
>implying you actually need to have gotten inside a girl to know how to draw basic porn
No, Ditko was definitely the incel kind.
No.1008054
>>1008053
Firstly porn wasn't even legal, never mind as ubiquitous, in the '50s as it is now and secondly if he was a celibate that shit was voluntary
No.1008055
>>1007980
>I know you're talking shit because it didn't work that way.
With the Marvel Method it did. Stan would come up with the plot, give it to the artist, the artist would come up with the story, Stan would get the pencils so he could fill out the dialogue, and then it would be inked, usually by a different inker.
Ditko inked his own work and kept his pencils real loose. This gave him the opportunity to completely fuck up whatever story was assumed from the pencils, leading to delays and in-house redraws.
No.1008057
>>1008048
Yes I am, but I feel it's important to story-time his Blue Beetle/Question stories because I think it's a great insight into his decline into objectivist rants.
Blue Beetle #3 is where Ditko's views start to slowly seep into the stories. The Madmen steal Blue Beetle's gun and the central conflict is BB getting his gun back. Ditko is keen to show us public opinion turning against BB for owning such a gun and paints such opinions as wrong.
No.1008058
>>1008057
The Madmen are entertaining villains, something that'll be totally absent once Ditko goes full Ayn Rand.
No.1008061
>>1008055
>This gave him the opportunity to completely fuck up whatever story was assumed from the pencils, leading to delays and in-house redraws.
Except that, again, it didn't work that way. Ditko did the complete artwork, including inks before he gave it to Stan, via Sol Brodsky, to script and letter. He had this to say:
>Stan never knew what he was getting in my Spider-Man stories and covers until after Sol Brodsky took the material from me … so there couldn't have been any disagreement or agreement, no exchanges … no problems between us concerning the Green Goblin or anything else from before issue #25 to my final issues
No.1008068
>>1008060
Ditko wants us to blame the Madmen for stealing Blue Beetle's mystery gun, assign no blame to BB for running around with it, and to think the public is wrong for believing BB bares some responsibility for the crime wave befalling them. There's an argument to be made there, but Ditko isn't interested in arguing the point. He doesn't entertain the slightest idea that the public's concerns have some legitimacy to them. The public is wrong, period. That line of thinking will become a running theme in Ditko's future work.
For the Question story, we get some of Ditko's ideas on law and order. Namely a strong belief in capital punishment.
No.1008072
>>1008069
The story looks like it's going to be a complex story of revenge, but in the end it becomes some guy murdering other guys for money. There can be no grey area in Ditko's world.
No.1008092
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1007892
Because they view Mr. A like most people view the Christian God, take one wrong step and suddenly your just evil, doesn't matter how good you act or good things you do, you do something that's evil Mr. A will punish you.
They don't understand that Mr. A doesn't punish people that feel bad for the evil actions they took, or did by mistake, it's people that just brush off the evil as something thats "just a part of life/job" like Batman never killing the Joker, in Mr. A's view of the world, because Batman will not take that final step to stop the Joker (since the courts and law never does it either) after the first attempt failed, every death the joker caused is on Batmans failure.
No.1008099
Someone gave Steve Ditko a copy of Michael DeForge's free Spider-Man bootleg “Peter’s Muscle”.
This was his response.
No.1008107
Blue Beetle #4 and we get the Objectivism scaled back with Blue Beetle. Don't worry though. Ditko makes up for it in #5.
No.1008111
>>1008110
It's weird how Ditko sets up this Dan Garret mystery only to reveal that it was some random guy who we've never seen before.
The same thing happens in the Question story, though instead of a building collapsing on them, The Question straight-up lets them die screaming for help.
No.1008113
>>1008111
We get more of Ditko proselytizing, and I'm finding it difficult to wrap my head around what he's arguing. Vic Sage, who's television program is apparently completely free of any studio oversight and is held accountable to no-one, says that rights belong to the individual, but not the group. My problem is: isn't that already the case? Who was going around saying you should be part of a group to have rights?
It's the kind of little statement that jars you out of the experience to consider that the man might be crazy.
No.1008117
>>1008113
Blue Beetle #4 closes with The Question leaving two men to die, and what would become the central focus of Ditko's work: moral absolutism.
In Ditko's mind, there was only good and bad, white and black. If you are good, then you are good, and nothing, nothing, you do could be considered bad. If you are bad, then you are purely bad and without any redeeming value. Determining guilt or innocence via the law was an insult to the good and enabling the bad.
Thus, the Question leaves two men, begging for their lives, to die. It would be un-Randian for him, someone who is good, to even think about risking his life for those that are bad.
No.1008126
>>1008099
Steve knew his shit.
No.1008130
Has anyone got his more wingnut indie comics to storytime, like Avenging World, or The Safest Place?
No.1008136
"Blue Beetle #5'' was the last Blue Beetle comic by Ditko to be published, and is one of my favorites.
Ditko, in this comic, attempts to tackle art, and, in the process, accidentally creates very compelling antagonists with emotion and depth. Their struggles with the human condition, their doubts and fears, makes them surprisingly relatable. They're humiliated and forced to suffer in a world completely lacking in compassion. It even takes on a kind of meta-narrative as they struggle in vain against their creator's wishes, becoming memorable in spite of it.
I also love it because I'm a drawfag, and any comic about art immediately interests me. Especially if it's by someone with absolutely no appreciation for it, such as Steve Ditko.
No.1008138
>>1008136
While it might be tempting to say that Ditko was comparing the virtues of classical art against modern art, that isn't the case. This comic was about the purpose of art. Ditko was firmly in the camp that thought art should represent an idealized form of man, similar to the ideas behind heroic realism. He denigrates the idea of using art as a mode of expression of the human condition, especially of our doubts and fears.
Also, another big part of this comic is how much Ditko utterly despised young people.
No.1008140
>>1008138
It's sometimes hilarious how little Ditko's heroes consider their fellow man. It's that black and white mentality showing. None of them actually bother to ask why "Our Man" is doing this or even attempt to reason with him. All they do is just attack him, further reinforcing the idea that "Our Man" lives in a heartless, uncaring world.
Which in turn makes everything the art critic says and "Our Man" believes absolutely correct.
No.1008143
>>1008140
Gotta include a scene showing how hippies are bad.
No.1008144
>>1007876
Huh never knew that.
No.1008147
>>1008143
So Blue Beetle just wins because he liked Ditko's preferred style of art, which made him superior to "Our Man". It's kind of a disappointing ending to what was an interesting story.
Now for the last Question story where the art critic from the previous story is tortured by a painting and Vic purposely drives him crazy enough to commit a crime. Unfortunately for Ditko, the art critic comes off as far more interesting and compelling than that asshole Vic Sage.
No.1008150
>>1008147
I'm going to have to go off topic a bit to talk more about Ditko and his hatred of hippies. He saw all the hippies out there, protesting the Vietnam war, as pinko scum. That view was a little hypocritical of him since he never saw combat during his enlistment. He served in post-war Germany and drew cartoons.
It's a view I like to contrast against his contemporary, Jack Kirby, who actually saw combat, had scream-himself-awake nightmares from what he experienced, and forever viewed war as a terrible, savage thing. Jack also loved hippies and saw in them great promise.
No.1008151
>>1008150
So ends Ditko's run on Blue Beetle, with Vic Sage driving a poor man crazy simply because they disagreed about art, and he want's us to think that was a good thing.
I hope this run given people an idea where Ditko slid after this. His characters doing morally reprehensible things with a complete lack of understanding or compassion toward other people.
No.1008163
Yeah, it's something common to all Objectivists, that they solve the problem of good and evil, by deciding everything they do is good, and everyone who disagrees is evil. Steve Ditko, Ayn Rand, Terry Goodkind, Phil Elmore, show me an Objectivist and I'll show you a narcissist incapable of introspection. Sometimes I think Objectivism is just a mental illness on the autistic spectrum.
No.1008170
>>1008163
>by deciding everything they do is good, and everyone who disagrees is evil
That's self-righteousness more than anything
No.1008171
>>1008163
It's what happens when you try to create objective morality without any kind of authority. You're the authority.
No.1008172
>>1008163
Objectism was created as a reaction against communism, focusing on the individual to the extreme. Thus, it dispenses with things that are defined by the group, things like common morality.
No.1008181
>>1007728
Hanks deserved it though.
No.1008208
>>1007865
>it's another "RazorFish fellates objectivism and rants about his dumbass politics instead of talking about the subject matter" video
At least this time it makes sense because Ditko and his creations were heavily based on objectivism.
But for fuck's sake keep The Shadow out of this shit. The Shadow is not objectivist. That shit didn't even exist when he was around. That rant he made in his video about the new Dynamite Shadow (using the movie as source) was nothing short of an embarassment.
I'm sick of this faggot and the kekistani edgelords he draws to anything he talks about.
No.1008217
>>1008163
>Show me an Objectivist and I'll show you a narcissist incapable of introspection
What do you expect from a Jewish ideology?
No.1008244
>>1008150
>Jack also loved hippies and saw in them great promise.
Huh, no accounting for taste on that point.
No.1008327
>>1008244
There's a great article about Ditko that got into how cantankerous he was.
https://archive.fo/6jVlP
The worst part is that it wasn't critics saying those things about Ditko, but people who were enormous fans of his work.
Also, in the process of writing the article (and attempting to meet Ditko in person), the author finds enough evidence to suggest that Ditko lied about getting no royalties from Marvel for Spider-Men, that he was indeed receiving checks from Marvel for a substantial amount of money.
No.1008335
This story is going to haunt me.
No.1008337
>>1008335
I fucking hate comic book philosophy that that fellates on good and evil subject like its the best thing they've got, and not infinitely growing cancer.
No.1008345
Mr. A, probably Ditko's most famous creation for those who know comics. The pure synthases of his objectivist beliefs and the slide from telling stories to churning out propaganda.
In this first appearance, Ditko somehow makes Mr. A look like a more dangerous threat to society than a knife wielding murderer. Mr. A is so far removed from our standards of morality that he comes off more as a monster in a horror movie than a hero. He's completely invincible and completely without mercy.
Mr. A would only get worse in future stories.
No.1008352
>>1008345
>Mr. A look like a more dangerous threat to society than a knife wielding murderer.
He beat up a bunch of criminals for information and saved a wounded woman's life. He espouses objectivist reasoning behind his actions, but the actual things he's doing are as vanilla as it gets for superheroes. The fuck are you pulling this 'threat to society' bullshit from? Dude at least kills killers, Batman could save countless lives in the long run if he just shot Joker and called it a day. You know, like cops often do. Batman's objectively a bigger threat to society owing to his retarded no killing rule.
>so far removed from our standards of morality
Whose standards of morality? Only qualm I've got with his behavior is expecting rational behavior out of a hysteric dying woman.
No.1008354
Ditko discusses how money isn't the root of all evil. People who don't follow his beliefs are.
No.1008357
>>1008354
>>1008352
>The fuck are you pulling this 'threat to society' bullshit from? Dude at least kills killers
Mr. A operates on the basis of absolute morality. Black and White. Bad and Good. Those he fights he considers bad, garbage to be treated without mercy or compassion. They are black, and black can never become white. Mr. A sees himself as good, pure white, and nothing he does could ever be considered bad.
It leads to a "hero" that does very questionable things, such as dismiss the idea of heroic sacrifice, the sanctity of human life, the concept of peaceful compromise, and the practice of presuming innocence before guilt.
Back to the story at hand, Mr. A crushes a man's windpipe to get information and forces an arguably innocent man to commit murder.
No.1008365
Ditko's only issue (as far as I know) of Mr. A, released in 1973, I think.
After a word from the publisher, we get right into it with a story explaining why Mr. A is philosophically justified in killing people.
No.1008367
>>1007728
>Fletcher Hanks
whos that guy?
No.1008370
>>1008365
The story reads more like propaganda than his previous ones, with his characters being little more than straw-men to argue his point. The little girl in particular sounds like she comes out of a Chick Tract.
>>1008368
>If you kill your enemy he win
Killing your enemy means that the next enemy will be more severe with their crimes. If they expect to be killed for stealing, then they have nothing to lose by killing any witnesses as well.
Thus, Mr. A isn't deterring crime as much forcing even minor criminals to be more vicious since they don't expect any amount of mercy from him.
No.1008373
>>1008370
Case in point, if that guy with the second thoughts knew that Mr. A would consider him just as guilty as the others, then there would be no hesitation on his part to fully commit to the crime. The lack of gray area, the lack of forgiveness, produces more hardened criminals than it prevents.
Ditko surprisingly caves in the next story to do a one about someone who paid their debt to society. It's widely believed that he wrote it to make Mr. A more palatable to readers, and in turn became hypocrite to all his values. He wouldn't make the same mistake again.
No.1008374
>>1008373
In the next story, Ditko backtracks on his previous statement. He insists that everyone should be punished equally regardless of their involvement in the crime, and that those who refuse to actively pursue them are just as guilty. No redemption. No forgiveness. Everyone with the slightest amount of grey must hang.
No.1008376
>>1008375
Mr. A has finally reached Chick Tract levels of propagandizing. The bad guy who didn't uphold the values of objectivism curses Mr. A for showing him the truth and receives a lecture about how "A is A".
The next tale is Ditko explaining how mercy is evil.
No.1008379
>>1008376
I sometimes if Ditko ever analyzed his beliefs deeper than the surface level.
No.1008381
>>1008379
So ends Mr. A #01. However, this is not the end for our black and white warrior. Ditko drew more Mr. A objectivist rants adventures. Such thrilling stories such as how it's totally cool to watch some guy burn to death or how the UN is an evil organization because it attempts to achieve peace through compromise.
No.1008383
>>1008381
>implying the UN is good
No.1008384
>>1008381
>U.N
>Good
Good joke right there m8
No.1008385
>>1008381
So will you gibs us more Mr. A? Please do, and don't just leave us hanging here.
No.1008389
>>1008386
>Batman
>Batman
>Batman
You really want to talk about Batman, don't you?
No.1008390
>>1008054
There was still such a thing as nude life drawing, though. And artistic reference books. There were also magazines with "artistic nudes" or what would much later be termed "thinspiration" for women (or "physique mags" for men).
Also there was still a lot of illustrated porn about, including the tail end of the Tijuana Bible craze that began in the 30's. Somebody well up in the comic industry would definitely know where they could get those.
No.1008391
Here's more of Ditko's 1975 work, featured in a Ditko collection published by Fantagraphics.
The first one is about social justice, but we're not talking about niggers and dykes. It's talking about redistribution of wealth ala Robin Hood.
No.1008392
>>1008391
Considering that Ditko lived partly on a military pension, his hatred of things like social security seems a little hypocritical.
No.1008394
>>1008392
I should mention that Objectivism has a lot of cross-over with Libertarianism. They both think taxes are robbery, especially if those taxes go to social welfare.
No.1008395
>>1008391
>Gay party spirit
This kills the Phenomenal One
No.1008396
>>1008394
This part makes my head hurt. Just the bizarre lecturing goes on and on, taking a simple motivation and reframing it to fit his beliefs. Most people can understand someone doing something out of jealousy, but fuck can anyone wrap their head around someone doing something to punish achievers by causing them to lose what they gained. He was basically arguing that the villain's motivation was "class warfare" and that's just crazy.
Anyway, the next page is about how the idea of peacefully solving our problems through compromise and discussion is shit that morally corrupt criminals do. THE GOOD DON'T NEED TO REACH AN UNDERSTANDING WITH ANYONE, FAGGOTS!
No.1008397
>>1008396
It's like a conspiracy theory in comic book form. Only Ditko would've view any attempt at world peace as a threat to his individual rights and would make other, bad people, his equals.
Ditko's thoughts on international relations were confusing, mostly because he seemed to be unable to conceive that all human beings had their own thoughts, feelings, and experiences. The world that Ditko proposed in these pages was a world without allies, without friends, where every man is out for themselves, all enforcing their idea of what is "good". I can't see how any of his ideas would've worked unless it involved the kind of dictator and force he rails against.
There are so many fucking contradictions in his philosophy that it's no wonder he went insane.
No.1008398
>>1008397
This whole plot about people pretending to be Mr.A is fucking pointless. It reads like lip-service.
No.1008399
>>1008398
Ditko finished preaching about how objectivism is the only truth, and anyone who does otherwise are fucking evil. That weeping dad reminds me of Lady Liberty from the Kelly strips.
I'm going to call it a night for now. I'll be back tomorrow with more Mr. A, and we might even get to Ditko's full-blown objectivist tract that is The Avenging World.
No.1008415
Well OP you sure are a preachy faggot but thanks for the comics!
No.1008417
>>1008415
Correction, storytimer is a preachy faggot. I don't know if he also made the thread, possibly sorry OP.
No.1008419
>>1008415
>>1008417
>actually discusses the comic
>this makes him a preachy faggot
Lurkmoar, summerfag.
No.1008424
>>1008327
What on earth? I clearly was replying to Jack's pro-hippie line specifically, as a character flaw of his. Didn't even mention anything about Ditko.
No.1008476
>>1007883
I couldn't find the street date for witzend #3 either but Ditko is quoted as saying that The Question is a comics code acceptable version of Mr A, which suggests Mr A came first
No.1008494
>>1008442
>he hasn't read Mr A
Ditko was justifiably insane after he stopped working with the bigger publishers, and that's only because the public got the watered down stuff and there were tard wranglers to keep him in line.
Once you read his later works, you'll come to realise he was completely random in his thought processes and just jumped from topic to topic without much thought.
No.1008506
>>1008492
To be fair, Denny O'Neil had turned him into a liberal long before that
No.1008537
This is the last Mr. A comic I have in my collection. It's completely without dialogue, showcasing that Ditko still had mastery over visual story-telling at this time.
I think this was the last time Ditko would express himself in this way. His future work tended to be more dialogue heavy.
No.1008542
>>1008538
I kinda want to know the backstory of the skull-faced guy. It feels like there's some tragedy that lead him to being burned to death while Mr. A looked on apathetically.
No.1008547
The Avenging World, published by Bruce Hershenson, collecting work created by Steve Ditko in 1973.
It was Ditko's Chick Tract.
No.1008553
>>1008552
End of Avenging World #1
No.1008555
>>1008551
By the way, this story was originally published in Witzend #7, and had an extra page featuring Mr. A.
No.1008560
While looking for more Avenging Earth, I happened upon this Ditko essay published in "The Ditko Collection Vol. 2'' concerning the ownership of comic art. There's no doubt that it was written in response to Jack Kirby's fight to get his original art back from Marvel.
Steve Ditko sided completely with Marvel on that issue.
No.1008572
Kirby died surrounded by loved ones. Ditko died alone. Lee is going to die surrounded by vultures trying to get all his money, if there's even any left by the time he actually drops dead
No.1008576
>>1008572
>Kirby died surrounded by loved ones.
Kirby died on his kitchen floor from a heart attack, with his wife Roz sobbing at the table because the ambulance was never going to arrive in time.
Sorry for bringing everyone down.
No.1008583
No.1008584
Next up is Ditko's "H-Series". I don't know exactly why he called it that.
No.1008585
>>1008584
Some of these stories are really weird, like Joe Simon in the seventies weird.
No.1008593
>>1008592
That ends Ditko's H-series. The first story was from The Ditko Collection vol.2 and the rest were from ..Wha..!? Ditko's "H" Hero Series.
No.1008628
>>1008012
Did the war turned him like that?
No.1008630
>>1008012
>Hell, his version of Spider-Man was basically an ugly, unpopular, socially ostracized motherfucker right up until the moment Lee and Romita ruined it
This is incorrect. Lee was the one who wanted him to downtrodden high-schooler. Ditko wanted to turn him into the objectivist ideal, a character like his post-Marvel creations.
No.1008632
We're getting close to the image limit. Should I continue story-timing Ditko chronologically, or should I skip to his late nineties/2000's work?
No.1008640
>>1008632
We don't have image limit if I recall I storytimed ABC Warriors and it went over 200 images
No.1008642
Chick tracts are a good comparison. They're similarly Manichean, with good and bad characters easily identifiable by how ugly they are, to the point that a morally dithering character's face will do this Lon Chaney Sr thing, back and forth, as they give in to evil, or are redeemed. Sweat drops, jowls, wrinkles, and stubble appear, the hairline recedes, they become more ape-like, but if redeemed, their beauty is restored.
Do you have Killjoy, or The Missing Man, or The Safest Place?
Or even early Dr. Strange. Love that Ditko-space, with the floating mouths and basketballs, and the twisty floating paths and islands.
No.1008683
>>1008630
This is patently false. A) because Ditko wasn't an Objectivist yet when he was working on Spider-Man and B) because it's Ditko who wanted to keep Spider-Man in High School whilst Stan wanted to age him up a little bit and send him to college.
No.1008684
>>1008628
He never fought in the war. He was actually too young
No.1008685
I'm actually quite interested in the nephew, Steve Ditko III. Anyone know anything about him? What he's worked on?
No.1008838
>>1008642
I really want Killjoy, but to get it I need to find issues of E-Man, and I've been having trouble getting my hands on them.
What I do have is Ditko's World Featuring Static, which features more of Ditko's fixation on superheroes but feels unfocused.
No.1008852
>>1008851
End of Ditko's World Featuring Static #1
No.1008943
>>1008838
Killjoy was also in the Superhero issue of Cracked, for some reason, if you can find that instead.
No.1008993
>>1008632
Never knew he did work in the 90's and 2000's.
No.1008998
Last work of his I remember from when I was still reading comics was his taking over Rom, Spaceknight from Sal Buscema, then creating Speedball and Squirrel Girl.
He also took over Machine Man from Jack Kirby.
Ms. Tree! That takes me back. I recommend it, hard boiled PI stuff from the then-current team on the newspaper Dick Tracy, using all the ideas they had that they couldn't get into the sanitised strips, like a gangster called Little Jesus, who ends up crucified…
I always wanted to see a TV series of Tree with Lucy Lawless, she was born to play the role.
It was a murder mystery, but she always made sure to leave a gun within reach of the murderer while she explained the plot, so they could try to kill her. She was also a professional fast-draw, you see, and never left a killer alive. The courts always ruled self-defence. She had unpopular politics for the time, once said that any woman had the right to an abortion, but if they had two she'd shoot them herself.
I miss good detective stories, back in the 70's Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane had their own books where they'd solve crimes and shit, now not even Batman does any detective work. Comics have been dumbed down as fuck since the 90's. Last detective book I remember was The Creep.
No.1009017
>>1008642
>>1008943
I finally got my hands on Charlton E-Man comics, and with it I can at last story-time Ditko's Killjoy.
There's only two of them, and the situations are so bizarre and straw-manned that reading them is a surreal experience.
No.1009019
>>1009017
I feel like there's a disconnect from reality with these particular stories (published in 1973). I get that Ditko is making an argument against criminals having rights, but it feels like it was written by an alien.
No.1009020
Killjoy reminds me a lot of Joe Simon's 1970's DC work, just written in a way where you have no idea what the fuck is going on. Like you get bits and pieces, but you're missing some key element that ties it all together into a coherent story. It's as if Steve was having a conversation with somebody other than the audience.
That said, Killjoy has given me someone new to add to my "favorite comic characters" list: Killer Ded. The guy just doesn't want to be taken alive and keeps failing at it.
No.1009021
>>1009020
So end's Ditko's Killjoy. A comic that fills your brain full of "fuck".
No.1009169
>>1009021
Thanks for Killjoy, I'd only read the first one. I love Flame, I've never seen a femme fatale come apart so quickly. Really, all Killjoy's villains read like PRESENT YEAR snowflakes, HOW DARE YOU NOT LET ME GET MY WAY?
Oh! I just remembered The Mocker, what the hell was his power, anyway, being covered in mould or something?
Was The Heckler actually a Ditko character, or was he just a Ditko pastiche?
I think the two modern artists with the biggest Ditko inspiration are Erik Larsen and Kieth Giffen.
The Creeper was crazy, too, I remember Rollo, a big rolling ball robot, like BB-88 with wrecking balls for hands, he went berserk and pounded himself into a bowl-shape like a toddler making an ashtray out of clay.
No.1009172
>>1009021
Oh, S.S.S. Snake, if only you had a diamond motif. You could be Diamond Python?
No.1009213
>>1007858
This desu.
Ditko was never one to care for other people's opinion. And when was the last time you heard of a self-exiled hermit care about social backlash?
He either never cared or had some legalistic reason to stay quiet.
No.1009222
>>1008393
>guy previously uses Batman as his go-to example without hesitation
>poster notices this trend and confronts him
>he must be a DC shill
I don't think so, Tim.
No.1009228
>>1009222
>If you kill their enemies they win
No.1009286
>>1007673
what a progressive video
No.1009290
>>1009169
>The Mocker
Oh, I've got that too. Published in 1989, we'll find out together the secret of The Mocker's powers.
Also, I think comparing snowflakes to Killjoy villains is unfair. Snowflakes at least give excuses for their actions. With Killjoy villains, I can't even begin to fathom why on earth they would think it's their right to commit crimes. There is no reason, in the comic or reality, that substantiated Ditko's line of thinking.
>>1009228
You keep bringing that up, but it looks like you don't actually want to discuss it and just want to fume about "muh batman"
No.1009293
>>1009290
You'll notice that Ditko's art declined post-Mr. A. It's subtle, but it's there.
No.1009317
>>1009316
And that is the end of Steve Ditko's The Mocker.
No.1009320
>>1008335
Every time I hear Moore talk or read his opinion pieces it makes me dislike him a little bit more.
No.1010889
>>1009316
>first page
>Lieberman Panel on Violent Video Games, 9 December 1993, black and white
No.1019222
Ditko was a legend, and legends never die. He sacrificed a social life to be the greatest at his craft. He was a hero, and a real human being.
= R.I.P. ==
No.1019260
>>1010889
>9 December 1993
>Doom shareware was released on the 10th
This "panel" was just an excuse to use a university's fast internet connection to grab it from the overcrowded Usenet board wasn't it?
No.1019270
>>1019222
>He sacrificed a social life to be the greatest at his craft.
No he did not. Alex Toth sacrificed a social life to the be the greatest at his craft and he actually was. He sacrificed it so much that he drove his first wife to divorce and toward the end of his life his sons had to stage and intervention just so he would see his grandchildren. He had few, if any, close friends due to the high standards he set for himself and the high standards he held for others.
Ditko, on the other hand, didn't have a social life to sacrifice, nor did he try to be the best at his craft. Ditko was an asshole before his split with Marvel and only became worse as the years progressed. With it his work deteriorated from expression, into rigid propaganda, and finally into almost frenzied scribbles. While his contemporaries moved on to reach their artistic peaks, Ditko remained stymied in his own beliefs and unable to escape the basic superhero formula.
While Ditko did have a major impact on comics, calling him a hero is ridiculous.
No.1019296
>>1019270
>He sacrificed it so much that he drove his first wife to divorce and toward the end of his life his sons had to stage and intervention just so he would see his grandchildren.
Fuck, I'm not saying everyone should be held to that standard but does anyone in the west even have this kind of work ethic anymore? Comics ubermensch are what made this industry what it is today, all these little pissants running around just seems even more pathetic in comparison.
No.1019300
>>1019270
>making it this obvious you're from /leftypol/
Go fellate the fat secretary's corpse some more.
No.1029350
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
In Search of Steve Ditko!