Is the concept of justice a man made construct?If our salvation depends on whether we have faith or not, aside from our deeds, that would mean that a wicked person who wronged us can be saved, and a righteous person that helps us might not be.This

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Christanon 07/11/19 (Thu) 10:44:01 223f87 No.820332

Is the concept of justice a man made construct?

If our salvation depends on whether we have faith or not, aside from our deeds, that would mean that a wicked person who wronged us can be saved, and a righteous person that helps us might not be.

This might feel unjust to us, but does that matter? Do we have to just suck it up and accept it? Accept that out weak, uninformed sense of human justice is an illusion and that God's conception of justice, however incomprehensible to us, is superior? If that is the case, is the need for justice in this earthly life just another human need, like the need for food, sex, power, comfort, that in the end, is meaningless in the grand scheme of things?

Should a good Christian seek to abandon his need for justice to understand and accept God better?

Christanon 07/11/19 (Thu) 12:01:36 21e0c0 No.820334

>>820332

It is a human concept to a large degree, but also not. Justice is giving each man his due, what is his due? We collectively decide. But the thing is ultimately based inGod, and some things are universally unjust (things against the 10 or 5 commandments.) Despite this, we as Christians never seek honors, justice, or vengeance for ourselves, even when wronged, we leave all to God. He will repay, perfectly.

Our salvation is based on our faith which allows Christ in us, and our works are His life lived in us with our assent. The sacraments are the means to become greater and greater vessels for the actions of the Lord. We don't need the justice of the world when we have God with us always. Abandon it.

Christanon 07/11/19 (Thu) 12:40:53 d887fe No.820336

>>820334

>We collectively decide what justice is

We collectively decide how best to pursue justice, we do not decide what it is.

Christanon 07/11/19 (Thu) 12:52:47 f6bf32 No.820338

>>820336

Correct, for Justice was created before we were.

Christanon 07/11/19 (Thu) 18:46:09 9920d8 No.820383

If a person does not get saved, that person is not righteous. It's not that it is "unjust", it is just that you are wrong and prideful (in the scenario you mention)

Christanon 07/13/19 (Sat) 02:20:04 223f87 No.820579

>>820338

>>820334

>>820336

>we leave all to God. He will repay, perfectly.

See, I doubt that God would repay perfectly, from our human sense of Justice anyway. I'm thinking of the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The workers who came in the morning got payed the same amount as the workers who came in the evening by the master. They protested and claimed that it was unjust, but the master said that how they felt didn't matter. Their sense of justice was irrellevant, and the exchange was just because it was up to the master.

Also, think of this hypothetical. If someone greatly wrongs you, and ends up getting baptised on their deathbed, then their sins against you go unpunished. In man's justice, this would be considered unjust, because it doesn't matter how sorry someone is for wronging you, they still have to pay for their crimes and attempt to restore the damage they have done to you. Not so with God's justice. So do we have to throw out our conception of justice and accept God's, even if we still feel that there is innate injustice in the world?

Christanon 07/13/19 (Sat) 02:27:55 223f87 No.820581

>>820383

Fair enough.

But Christian teaching has always been that to be saved, you have to be within the Church.

Now, the fate of the unlearned is something that has been endlessly debated by Christian thinkers since the beginning of the Church. What happens to righteous people that, through no fault of their own, don't know Christ? Many denominations teach that these people get saved anyway. But is this thinking just a result of us trying to apply our human understanding of justice to the cosmic order? Is it right to try and understand the universe this way?