/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>809065

>How can you get into Heaven without asking for her to pray for you?

By believing in Jesus of course. If his sacrifice on the cross is enough to cleanse us of our sins (spoiler alert, it is) then we don't need the intercession of his mother to be saved.

>>809065

>How can you get into Heaven without asking for her to pray for you?

One can get into heaven without praying a single Hail Mary.

>>809065

>>809065

>The Son can't refuse what His mother asks of Him.

<God can't refuse what a human asks of him

Stuff like this is why protestants always give us shit about her.

Intercede between who and whom?

>>809100

Jesus does what His mother asks of Him because He is honoring the 5th commandment

>Honor thy father and thy mother

Besides, Mary is a sinless woman. It's not like she will ask of Him something ridiculous. Look back at the wedding at Cana. Jesus revealed Himself and His divinity at the request of His mother so the newlyweds can have a nice wedding celebration. Literally His first miracle was done be request of His mother, kick starting the series of events that would end in Jesus' crucifixion.

>this is why prots make fun of us

>implying we should care what prots think of us.

If they don't like the truth, that's their problem which will only end badly for them.

>>809110

To say that God must obey the requests of any human (sinless or not) is heretical. If he fulfills a request from the holy virgin, that's purely out of his own mercy in choosing to do so, not due to some divine law binding him to the wishes of his mother. Jesus has no human father and no divine mother, only a divine Father that is cosubstantial with himself, and a human mother that he created. So the idea of 'honoring thy parents' simply cannot apply to him the way it applies to us humans. Prots making fun of us isn't the issue here, the issue is incorrect teachings.

>>809116

The Father is still head of the house hold. If the mother request something that the father forbids, than the child is obliged to follow the will of the father. As does the mother, for she is still submitted to the will of the father. Mary wouldn't request her Son to do something if it was in contradiction to God the Father's will. So again, it's not heresy. So yes, Jesus being 100% man as well as being 100% God is still obliged to honour the requests of His mother. Like all sons are obliged to honor the requests of their mothers.

>>809119

>The Father is still head of the house hold.

Then how can the Son (who is cosubstantial with the Father) be obligated to submit to the mother (which he created)?

>Mary wouldn't request her Son to do something if it was in contradiction to God the Father's will.

No one is saying she would.

>God is still obliged to honour the requests of His mother. Like all sons are obliged to honor the requests of their mothers.

No. They can agree because they share the same will (of the Father), but that is not the sort of relationship the word "oblige" implies. Transforming this dynamic from agreement to contractual obligation distorts the trinity, and elevates Mary to being a 4th person of the trinity. That is not a Christian teaching.

Look at the wedding at Cana. Mary asks Jesus to do something, He says it's not His time - but He does it anyway. Because she asked.

>>809099

Probably has something to do with the fact that Catholics like OP will imply (or outright state in this case) that Mary is necessary to get into Heaven, which sounds like worshipping her.

>>809123

>be obligated to submit to the mother (which he created)?

Oh yeah, and I've actually listened to a Catholic priest "speculate" that Mary wasn't created. Of course he said "maybe" and "we don't know," but really, some Catholics obviously are worshiping or on the verge of worshiping Mary.

>>809166

Doctors of the Church have stated that it's likely impossible to get into Heaven without the Queen of Heaven praying for you, yes.

>>809169

With the degradation of the seminaries, I'm not surprised a priest told you that. But it's not true, she is created, and human, but she is the greatest of all creation, and all of her attributes (Queen of Heaven, mediatrix, co-redemptrix, Mother of God, conceived without sin, et all) she has because of her Son, and everything human He has, He gets from her.

https://taylormarshall.com/2011/05/is-mary-mediatrix-of-all-graces.html

>>809065

>How can you get into Heaven without asking for her to pray for you? The Son can't refuse what His mother asks of Him.

Well, I can get into Heaven by my faith in Christ who has died for me.

Now, let’s suppose for the sake of argument that your assertion that He cannot refuse His mother is true.

1: That does not necessarily mean that He will absolutely refuse me if I come to Him directly (“let the children come to me”)

2: She is not omnipresent, so any prayer addressed to the Son directed directed through her isn’t necessarily guaranteed to reach Him. How do you know that she, a saint and not omnipresent, can even hear you?

3: Your reliance on her for your salvation, rather than just faith in Christ, is just another variation of Pascal’s wager. It doesn’t necessarily mean your wrong, but faith on a wager rather than childlike faith seems disrespectful.