/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>808706

Back in the 17th century lots of Calvinists concluded/feared themselves to be not part of the elect.

The criteria of defining this is rather…different.

On the one hand, you got the OG Dutch Calvinists that were easy to convert because their criteria was "wealth and riches are an outwards expression of being elect" and since a lot of those Dutch were middle-class spice merchants lots of them were saved.

On the other hand, you got a Prussian king who feared he was not part of the elect despite his wealth, successes and riches.

What criteria the latter used I do not know.

Tl;dr: yes, there are Calvinists who consider themselves not part of the elect.

I’m one of them. I mean I have my doubts.

Calvinists focus too much on the OT, to the point of idolatry. There is a New Covenant, in His blood.

>>808706

Yes, and it is a sad sight to behold.

>>808706

I suspect the ones who choose to live in sin and 'repent later' perpetually or try suppress their wrong doing to the back of their mind.

>>808714

>Back in the 17th century lots of Calvinists concluded/feared themselves to be not part of the elect.

These may be some of the only ones I admire.

>>808732

Pretty much all Puritans were in the category above. I don't think their need to simplify (de-beautify) church environment was necessary, but the humility seen in their prayers and the gravity with how they preached the gospel is nothing to be sad about.

Of course, you can ignore me since I'm not Protestant, but I'm just trying to say something good. Puritans were especially not as bad as the reputation (same goes for the Inquisition on the Catholic end).

This always happens when you lose sacramental focus. What is the meaning of for many? Those who draw near with faith. The Eucharist is our peace with God, our salvation. And yet we must remember, there are wolves within and sheep without - freedom in Christ is not feigned. The strongest advice I'd give is to read the 1662 Eucharist - it's a picture of salvation. We are remembered who we are, but shown who God is. Who is invited to the table of the Lord?

YE that do truly and earnestly repent you of your sins, and are in love and charity with your neighbours, and intend to lead a new life, following the commandments of God, and walking from henceforth in his holy ways: Draw near with faith, and take this holy Sacrament to your comfort; and make your humble confession to Almighty God, meekly kneeling upon your knees.

The fundamental truth here is that you didn't get you to repent.

Remember, the fundamental picture of God is not in theological treatises, but the liturgy, in what we see and do.

>>808880

where does it say in the bible my friend?

I know a calvinist, and I partially suspect they don't think they are chosen. I'm not sure they even believe in free will.

>>808880

where does it say in tradition my friend?

>>808880

>but the liturgy,

The Novus Ordo doesn't paint a very pretty picture of God.>>808880

>but the liturgy,

>>809336

Typological:

Passover meal in Lev 23

Leviticus 16 Scapegoat

Direct application:

Jesus revealed in the breaking of the bread in Luke 24,

The restoration of Thomas in John 20,

The picture of worship in Rev 4 (see esp 4:1)

the revelation of Christ in Matt 3 through Baptism,

the picture of the Eucharist in 1 Cor 1.

That's just for starters.

>>809358

the liturgy is tradition, Lex orandi, lex credendi

>>809431

>the liturgy is tradition

It's neither normative nor descriptive tradition so why are you basing a definition on it?

>>809432

whatever you say bro