/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>808661

1. It's not in Latin originally

2. Not at all

3. Read it in Hebrew and Greek if you care, or just use multiple literal translations like the LEB and David Bentley Hart translation

>>808661 (OP)

It's not 100% necessary to know how to read Latin but it does help.

Case in point:

Galatians 5:20

In this verse Saint Paul prohibits Christians using pharmakeia in English it is commonly translated as sorcery. Without knowing the full context of how Pagan sorcery was actually conducted, the Modern English speaker can just assume that it prohibits ritual Magick ( chanting spells and what not). What actually happened in Pagan magic is that it used drugs in order to commune with the dead and spirits.

Funny enough it's actually because of the Greek there are Protestant sects that outright ban any Pharmaceuticals because of that verse.

The Latin of Galatians 5:20 uses the word veneficia which translates most to poisoning. As in poisoning your body with drugs in order to conduct sorcery.

So again knowing Latin is not 100% necessary but it does help a lot with your studies in the Bible in Christianity

>>808666

I forgot to add on one more part

As stated earlier using only the Greek a lot of people who think that they should not be using any sort of pharmaceuticals because pharmakeia has the base Pharma in it. If they understood the Latin

veneficia they would understand that Saint Paul is Banning drugs that make you hallucinate and/or put you in a different state of mind. In the modern sense St Paul would be banning recreational drug use (LSD, DMT, MDMA Marijuana, Heroin, etc etc) as if using drugs does not bring you closer to God, in fact it opens you up to the occult. ( see Aleister Crowley as it good example of this)

Sage for double post

>>808661

>Original

>Latin

Pick one.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKXGJjRU-bTV8i7pQ700Z4Jkw0WN1djiO

>>808675

The Vulgate is the definitive inspired text of the Bible. Latin was the language God wanted His word to be written in, hence waiting til Rome ruled Judea before sending the messiah.

>>808676

Are you trying to be as funny as the KJVOnly guys? Not even the Vatican would say this. Not even St. Hieronymus himself, who translated out of Hebrew and Greek. And if Latin was already so good, he would have simply let the old Latin translations remain (because there were already plenty.. they just weren't as accurate as he was).

I'm not even sure Holy Meme Monastery has gone this far in their absurdity.. but maybe they have. In which case, I encourage you to ignore them.

Latin is a very very well established (dead) tongue for the bible, but it's not the original language at all.

The New Testament was written in Greek.

The Old Testament was written in Aramaic, Hebrew and some other tongues if not mistaken.

>>808679

idk man its pretty hard to accept that the bible in its original language has been corrupted with none surviving even if it portrays the jew in a bad light.

>>808677

MFHM usually go back to the Greek.

>>808664

FPBP

>>808679

>The only manuscript tradition with any integrity goes through the Vulgate alone.

It only looks that way to you because that silly chart completely omits the Greek Septuagint.

>>808661

>thousands of scholars, linguists, saints, church doctors, priests, and theologians have interpreted every syllable of the entire Bible

<but surely I'll bring something new to the table

I trust the Vulgate much more than modern translations, certainly. St Jerome actually spoke the Greek the original Bible was written in–so he likely could convert all the intricacies of the original Bible into Latin, but modern "scholars" likely can't.

>>808708

He spoke a greek hundreds of years removed

>>808666

For you

>>802507

It can also refer to the act of poisoning in Greek.

Without defending or condemning it, I would say that your application of it to modern recreational drug use is anachronistic and out of context.

Drug, drugger and druggery would work well.

>>809011

Except it's not. Drugs poisoned people back than and they poision people now. It doesn't matter if you poision yourself while worshiping false gods or the one true God, destroying the body God gave you for a high is pharmakeia.

Besides, drugs are still used to control people. Pimps get their whores hooked on hard drugs so they are obedient and don't think about leaving or trying to escape. Cartels get people hooked on cocaine to extract money from the victims. Democrats promise drugs like DUDE so they can extract more power and taxes from the taxpayer while keeping them blind from the reality of the harm democrat policies does to society.

>>809040

Yeah, drugs poison people, more at 11.

I'd actually be willing to retract and agree that in some way recreational drugs can be rebukable by the same reasoning but also with others like the admonitions against drunkeness, but the specific context cited in the scriptures appears to be primarily focused on the ritual "sorcerous" uses of the time, which may cause one to receive false inspiration and make uninspired claims about spiritual communion they're having. The meaning is also not focused on a "poisoning" aspect.

That linked post showed the different ways it was applied, even to wine. Before I read that I would have thought the classification of alcohol as a drug was a recent innovation. On the other hand, one rather should be skeptical of legal pharmaceutical drug use as well.

Pre-Chrisitan societies had all sorts of festivities devoted to deities involving alcoholic intoxication as well as with other narcotic concoctions. These ritualistic and sorcerous senses seem more applicable to the context of Paul's time than modern abstract drug use, but even then as the linked post says it may still be relevant.

>The recreational drug use of today would seem to be divorced from this spiritist aspect, yet the possible admonitions of the NT writers may still be observed in the instances of drugged individuals exhibiting deliria.

E.g. the deranged individual murmuring incoherent babble and behaving erratically on a public road way.

Clergy who have alcoholism are also at risk of receiving bad inspiration from the delirium their substance abuse may cause.

>>809040

And freemarketists allow alcohol companies to promote malt liquor and Nikes in low income neighborhoods and finer beverages in upper income neighborhoods. Monks handled brewing knowing full well people were going to make theirselves drunk with it because it's all a source of revenue to the state. States relied on compensating and providing laborers with alcohol which is why alcoholism was more widespread in past ages and is even endemic to this day.

Vaticanus, Sinaiaticus, and Alexandrinus are late bro

Papyri are where it's at. This pic is old

>>808661

Much of Biblical terminology has usages that are strongly linked to, for example, Hellenic philosophy, especially in the NT. Compare these two lines of John 1:1

>Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

>In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum.

>λόγος =/= Verbo

In order to comprehend this sentence we need to know the whole meaning of Logos, for such meaning "WORD" is incomplete and misleading.

According to Plato, Logos not only designates the abstract categorisation of the world around us, but also that lies beyond the world itself manifested in the Divine Principle, which emanates from the One and Only God and reflects in our immediate world.

Seems like that for a complete understanding of the nuances embedded in the Sacred Scriptures, one must be well-versed in Latin and let alone Greek. Pretty much like Vedic studies require knowledge of Sanskrit to not corrupt its true meaning.

It's nice to read it in it's original Latin, but it's not super useful. I would rather learn Latin so I could read Lapide's commentary, which most of it has not been translated yet. However his Latin is not easy Latin, whereas I've been told the Vulgate's Latin is fairly easy to read and understand.