/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>805164

Prayer is an incredibly powerful thing, OP. Pray for your family, pray for them a lot, and God will guide them to Himself. It could take a long time, but don't give up. Even if your father happens to die before he comes around, your prayers won't be in vain if you just keep praying.

>>805164

> dad

First things first: I’m sorry to hear about him. But second, maybe try telling him how much it would mean to you if he converted, or even if he tried to believe. I’m just growing out ideas here.

>>805223

But wouldn't that potentially just lead to him saying things to put me at ease instead of actually meaning it?

>>805237

Not him but it looks like you don't really have a choice. A failed attempt is still better than doing nothing. I'll be praying for you and your family anon.

>>805206

>I don't have years

You don't need years, only faith.

>>805164

It's a tragedy, anon, but they've had their chances and of their own free will they have chosen most unwisely. My mom prayed for me for 5 years and I became Catholic while she essentially ascribes to Moralizing Therapeutic Deism. Now her soul is lost and I have to pray for her.

>>805237

yeah I guess you’re right. Worth a shot though

>>805164

I feel you anon, my dad is vehemently anti catholic and I find it really hard to see him ever embracing the church, the ego is too hardened. He got called me a traitor for going to mass last year.. I haven't been a good Christian myself, God has been, and is still showing me the truth. I still haven't joined the church, I almost got through to my mom, but I'm a winnie the poohup

>>805164

He might be more receptive to simple questions like "but what if you're wrong?", given the fact that he's close to death and is probably afraid. If you know why your father doesn't believe, then maybe you can discus that. Your mother might be more difficult to reach. Those who simply don't want to walk the narrow path often ignore evidence and deceive themselves. The best testimony is a life that is truly dedicated to Jesus Christ. Maybe she'll think more soberly about death and the next life if she's completely convinced that you believe what you claim to believe. And never stop praying, brother.

My father doesn't let me go to church

>>805164

Is there a way to get a priest baptize your father and give him last rites? Try your utmost to do it, Christ is specially merciful to those on their deathbed.

>>806294

Baptism and last rites won't save him, he has to accept Jesus Christ as his lord and savior and put his faith in Him.

>>806304

He obviously can't because he can't use his reason anymore, did you even read the thread? And water baptism, bar invincible ignorance, is absolutely necessary for salvation.

>>806311

>this ONE WEIRD TRICK will save your soul! Saviours hate it!

>>806316

St. John Chrysostom

>“For the Catechumen is a stranger to the Faithful. He has not the same Head, he has not the same Father, he has not the same City, nor Food, nor Raiment, nor Table, nor House, but all are different; all are on earth to the former, to the latter all are in heaven. One has Christ for his King; the other, sin and the devil; the food of one is Christ, of the other, that meat which decays and perishes; one has worms' work for his raiment, the other the Lord of angels; heaven is the city of one, earth of the other…

>If it should come to pass, (which God forbid!) that through the sudden arrival of death we depart hence uninitiated, though we have ten thousand virtues, our portion will be no other than hell, and the venomous worm, and fire unquenchable, and bonds indissoluble.” (Homily 25 on the Gospel of St. John)

St. Ambrose

>One is the Baptism which the Church administers: the Baptism of water and the Holy Ghost, with which catechumens need to be baptized…Nor does the mystery of regeneration exist at all without water: ‘For unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom.’ Now, even the catechumen believes in the cross of the Lord Jesus, with which he also signs himself; but, unless he be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace.” (De Mysteriis, The Divine Office)

St. Augustine

>“I care naught that today of all days you expect to hear something pleasant from me. I must warn you in the words of Holy Scripture: ‘Defer it not from day to day, for his wrath shall come on a sudden.’ God knows that I tremble in my cathedra myself when I hear those words. I must not, I cannot, be silent. I am compelled to preach to you on this matter and to make you fearful, being myself full of fear. How dangerous is every delay! How many rascals are saved by being baptized on their deathbeds? And how many earnest catechumens die unbaptized and are lost forever?”

>>806316

St Gregory Nazianzen

>“If you were able to judge a man who intends to commit murder solely by his intention and without any act of murder, then you could likewise reckon as baptized one who desired baptism. But, since you cannot do the former, how can you do the latter?

>If you prefer, we will put it this way: If, in your opinion, desire has equal power with actual baptism, then make the same judgment in regard to glory. You would then be satisfied to desire glory, as though that longing itself were glory. Do you suffer any damage by not attaining the actual glory, as long as you have a desire for it? I cannot see it!” (Oration on Divine Light, XL, #2)

>>806325

>>806327

those are some nice men, too bad they arent Holy Scripture.

If they really believe the useless act of sprinkling water, the mere symbol of an internal and eternal transformation of one's soul, is the gate to the loving of and love of God, then they are fools. Do you TRULY believe the eternal all knowing never changing God judges a man on whether some water touched his skin? That is merely the remnant of Roman paganism, the society of rituals, having its effect on early writers who did not understand that the only thing that matters is an individual's individual relationship with God.

>water

birth by a mother

>spirit

the inner change, which we are called to symbolize through baptism, though the baptism itself is useless.

>>806341

>Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Yeah, Christ totally charged the Apostles to do something absolutely unnecessary. Also then, was st. Paul adhering to 'pagan rituals' when he baptized the men in Acts 19:1-5? I mean, good luck with your personal relationship man.

>>806325

>>806327

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

>For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

The Church Fathers are men of great authority and wisdom, but even they are not infallible. The official teaching of the Church says that Baptism of desire is valid.

There is a truth contained in the sayings of the Fathers here, that it is better to actually receive the sacrament than it is to die in desire of it. It's not a minor difference either, considering that the fires of Purgatory are just as painful as the fires of Hell But an infinitely merciful God will surely not damn an earnest, repentant, and non-heretical believer over a technicality.

Bro do you even read the bible?

>>806355

Baptism of desire is not the point here. The point is water baptism is absolutely necessary for someone who can't use his reason normally anymore. I'd advise the OP to baptize his father himself before he dies if he can't get a priest to do it.

Read the bible damn it

>>806365

How?

>be raised catholic

>nobody in my family was really too religious, my mom was lukewarm at best

>get away from the church quite a bit throughout most of middle school and high school

>siblings do the same

>go away to college, come back to Christ and be saved

>come home for mothers day, talking with family

>they all start talking about how they think abortion is okay

>I just stay quiet, not wanting to start drama

>feels bad, I want to evangelize them but I don't know how receptive they'll be

>>806434

From what I've gathered brother, most people are proud and don't like being wrong, (I'm not exempt from this at all), because of this it's best to to avoid any direct confrontation or debate with them.

Instead I would recommend gradually raising questions on a small scale, something that encourages them to think for themselves rather than you setting out to prove them wrong (which in the case of abortion they are of course in the wrong). So for abortion I would recommend starting a conversation on the limits of abortion, if we have the right to abort children in the womb, do we also have he right to murder those over say 80 who are infirm?

>>806529

To be honest you're better off asking your priest and some random people on the internet

>>806539

You're better off asking your priest instead of random people on the internet**

Sage for shity dictation

>>806434

I always just say "but what if you're wrong?"

and they're forced to face the reality.

Most won't realize the truth at first, but they will at least be forced to consider that maybe their actions will be judged to be sinful by God and they will have to answer for it.

>>806529

It seems that it's possible in danger of death if he showed at least some desire to be baptised, but google it further.

going to trick god and find a loophole? Always a good plan.