/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>804629

Baptize in water. Make your faith public

literally nothing has happened to you. i dont know what heretics you've been talking to but its impossible for the holy spirit do dwell in you if you haven't been baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And it has to be in that way, if you get baptized "in the name of Jesus" it doesn't count. Go to a real church, preferably Catholic, but it doesn't matter, it could be Lutheran or Anglican or whatever (but you should do Catholic anyway) and start your process of getting baptized there.

Being "baptized by the Holy Spirit" is just heretical nonsense, like i said, its IMPOSSIBLE for the holy spirit to dwell in you unless you are baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

>>804633

>Baptize in water. Make your faith public

I plan to do so.

>>804636

>literally nothing has happened to you.

I wish it were so. You think this is easy?

>i dont know what heretics you've been talking to

The Bible was talking to me, that's where I got the idea from to ask for the Spirit after conversion. I never expected to receive it though, I even forgot I prayed for it at some point, until my pastor was pointing me to the upcoming Pentecost and Acts 8 recently.

>but its impossible for the holy spirit do dwell in you if you haven't been baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

So I've must have been baptized with water already? That's unlikely, but not impossible.

>>804636

>literally nothing has happened to you. i dont know what heretics you've been talking to but its impossible for the holy spirit do dwell in you if you haven't been baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Read the Acts of the Apostles… God decides where His grace goes. One can indeed receive the Pentecostal gift before Baptism.

>While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

>Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

>Being "baptized by the Holy Spirit" is just heretical nonsense

"Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is this sacrament called Chrismation in the East and Confirmation in the West… But sacramental grace depends on God, not on us. In the Acts, most of the time the Holy Spirit is given after baptism by the laying on of hands of the apostles, but we find a couple of cases where the Spirit comes to dwell on somebody before they even get baptized.

>>804629

Baptism unites us to the death and resurrection of Jesus. Chrismation gives us the Holy Spirit of Jesus, giving us the grace and strength to become a new creation. And Communion truly reshapes us in the shape of Christ, giving us His divinity and the grace to never sin again (or condemning us, if we do not receive with proper preparation).

It is good if you have received the Holy Spirit, but nonetheless you need to be baptized and receive communion so that you can actually become by grace what God is by nature. And you need to be careful - we can lose the Holy Spirit and shun Him away. But receiving the sacrament of Chrismation will give you the seal of the Holy Spirit, strictly making you a temple of the Holy Spirit where He primarily resides, so to speak.

Good luck on your journey. But you need to tell your priest either way. He's the one who can tell you what you should do, if your baptism should be put earlier than expected, etc.

OP here

>>804718

>"Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is this sacrament called Chrismation in the East and Confirmation in the West… But sacramental grace depends on God, not on us. In the Acts, most of the time the Holy Spirit is given after baptism by the laying on of hands of the apostles, but we find a couple of cases where the Spirit comes to dwell on somebody before they even get baptized.

At first I was just thinking, that this is the strong faith every Christian receives after submitting his life to Jesus Christ, because I forgot about my specific prayer.

After talking to the deacon and other Christians in person I realized that something is very different in their and my faith. They have occasional doubts and need worship, I'm completely free of those, because the Lord is always with me and communicating all day and night. There is simply no way for me to deny it.

As a layman I'm just experiencing it and don't have all the foundational theological knowledge, everything I know stems from my understanding of the Bible.

>Good luck on your journey. But you need to tell your priest either way. He's the one who can tell you what you should do, if your baptism should be put earlier than expected, etc.

My baptism is scheduled for Pentecost this year, a few weeks from now. I received the gift before I actually did seek out a parish to join. It was a very strong force inside me, which drove me into church on Good Friday this year.

>>804718

>Read the Acts of the Apostles… God decides where His grace goes. One can indeed receive the Pentecostal gift before Baptism.

Amen. It is right to be baptized with water, but the grace of the Holy Spirit is not bound by the sacraments. They are for our sake. Not his. We should never presume it'll always work this way, but shouldn't be surprised when it does.

>>804718

>Good luck on your journey.

Amen to this too. God bless, OP.

>>804720

>hey have occasional doubts and need worship, I'm completely free of those, because the Lord is always with me and communicating all day and night. There is simply no way for me to deny it.

That's what we all say, until it goes away becausee we fell into pride or acedia… Don't take it for granted, anon. Remain humble and repentant. Tasting of the Kingdom of God here and now does not mean you will necessaily remain that way until your death. Already by saying "their faith is different than mine, mine is better" and "I don't need to go to church and worship", you're coming dangerously close to spiritual delusion and therefore sin, if you have not passed that point already. But the Holy Spirit cannot remain in a vessel that is not fortified to contain Him.

You must be baptized, chrismated/confirmed, go to Church every Sunday to receive communion, and, on your side, focus on praying, fasting, and almsgiving. This is the testimony of all Christians for 2000 years, guided by the same Holy Spirit that you believe is now strengthening you. Don't isolate yourself from going to church and don't think of yourself as "holier" than your fellow Christians. "Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him." (Proverbs 26:12)

>>804732

>That's what we all say, until it goes away becausee we fell into pride or acedia… Don't take it for granted, anon. Remain humble and repentant. Tasting of the Kingdom of God here and now does not mean you will necessaily remain that way until your death.

It's okay, I already got teached a lesson last year, I fell into pride (even bookmarked Proverbs 16:18 on 1/14/18) and also fought against it, because my ego wanted my old sinful life back.

After realizing that this fight was not going well for me, I did repent and additionally fully submitted my whole life to the Lord's will just before this Easter and seeming got closer to the Lord again.

>Already by saying "their faith is different than mine, mine is better"

Different doesn't mean "better". I fully believe that these people get saved by their faith alone and don't need any "divine experiences". I was just trying describe with naive human words what I noticed and that I understand their struggle better than before. This was the actual lesson I could have not learned in solitary.

>and "I don't need to go to church and worship", you're coming dangerously close to spiritual delusion and therefore sin

I'm completely with you. After losing that spiritual fight, I gave in and entered church on Good Friday. I participated in worship each Sunday since. And I'm following the plan to get baptized.

>>804732

Also thank you for correcting me brother.

God bless you.

>>804732

I'm back from praying in repentance, because I have sinned. Thank you brother for pointing out my mistakes. You are right and I was prideful.

>>804629

Anon, START Journaling!! Seriously. This mountain top feeling moment is very real but it will not last (read your Bible and especially acts where Paul talks about this type of thing). I partially think I do understand what you mean when you describe your experience in this way, but also do remember that many others may not have experienced something like yourself. I highly recommend that you begin Journaling your thoughts and reflections on your experience, and you will have this to look back after some time had gone by. This is an important moment, and you need to do exactly what you need to be doing. Pay attention to your experiences and trust in God.

Some unsolicited advice (trust in God, not in me!!) remember to pray for others, we are commanded to do so, and this will help YOU also. Remember also to Practice the commandments in the New Testament. This will help YOU also.

God is real brother! Remember to come back and Praise God!!

>>804713

Anon, did your prayer involve tears?

OP here

>>805277

>Anon, START Journaling!! Seriously.

I'm already digging up my past before conversion, because it all makes sense now in the light of conversion and I'm writing down everything else I remember. (It is as if some plan came together.)

>This mountain top feeling moment is very real but it will not last

I know this. There were many months last year, when I was in sin, where my faith alone had to carry me through, because God was gone.

As soon as I start sinning, I can sense the distance to God increasing.

>also do remember that many others may not have experienced something like yourself

Took my proud self a while to realize this. Actually these other brothers are stronger in their faith, because I'm playing the easy mode.

>Some unsolicited advice (trust in God, not in me!!) remember to pray for others, we are commanded to do so, and this will help YOU also. Remember also to Practice the commandments in the New Testament. This will help YOU also.

Thank you brother, I will take this to the heart.

>God is real brother! Remember to come back and Praise God!!

Exactly, Jesus has risen and is alive! Glory to the Lord

>>804629

OP (and all other anons interested)- I would love to talk about this type of thing. I experienced something similar to OP not that long ago. It is now ~6 months later, I am still having problems orienting myself to church doctrine and the faith as taught and the faith as lived and experienced. Would love to hear more about your own experiences and your experiences over time, and in general going about life.

Concerning my own actions: I am a lot less sure than I had been. I do think I know what you mean, OP, but that is not how I feel right at this moment. Even so, I truly do not mean anything harmful by this post. If interested, I'd love to talk. No obligation of course, and only if you feel that it is good and from the Lord. my email address is: anon127102541s@protonmail.com

>>805291

>I am still having problems orienting myself to church doctrine and the faith as taught

May I ask which denomination you got taught?

>and the faith as lived and experienced

I go to the living God with all questions about what is right and what is wrong. When still in doubt, I read His word.

Sometimes the Lord might speak through church people to me, but these are fallible humans with their own opinions, so I take those with a grain of salt.

>>804636

>Being "baptized by the Holy Spirit" is just heretical nonsense

no real Christian would say this. Being baptized by the Holy Spirit is more important than baptism in water. A baptism of the Holy Spirit is when God reveals himself to a Christian. After this event you know God not by words in a book, but by his character and his essence. Claiming that a baptism by the Holy Spirit happens as a result of adherence to some church ritual is nonsensical.

>>804718

>It is good if you have received the Holy Spirit, but nonetheless you need to be baptized and receive communion so that you can actually become by grace what God is by nature.

This isn't true. There is no catholic ritual that is essential for salvation. The elevation of the church to the status of Godhood is one of the sins of the Catholics.

>And you need to be careful - we can lose the Holy Spirit and shun Him away. But receiving the sacrament of Chrismation will give you the seal of the Holy Spirit, strictly making you a temple of the Holy Spirit where He primarily resides, so to speak.

This is just bizarre. The Catholics try to wedge themselves between the believer and God and it's not for the benefit of the believer. A baptism in the Holy Spirit is a revelation of God. It's the spiritual equivalent of a meet and greet with God. Once you've been baptized, you know God. That knowledge can't be taken from you though you can turn your back on it.

>But you need to tell your priest either way.

The priest has no right to know anything. God never commanded men to be under the thumb of catholic priests or any other clergy. It's good to have leaders and elders that you listen to and obey, but those leaders you choose shouldn't be pedophiles and homosexuals

>>805652

Lies, lies, and more lies.

If Christ hadn't wanted the Apostles to forgive sins, He wouldn't have given them the commission, nor given them the Holy Spirit multiple times, nor allowed them to pass on the apostolic succession.

Anyone who forsakes Christ's apostles forsakes Him.

>>805648

I was without church for over three decades and for over a year after my conversion. So I can clearly tell.

>>805652

I was always impressed by Catholic buildings and decorations, but that changed when God revealed Himself to me (and sent me to a small Baptist parish with a modest house later).

>>805690

Anon, thanks to the Spirit, I know what is true.

I might still sin, but it's the Lord Himself who forgives sins. And He expects honest repentance.

In my secular days I always thought, Martin Luther was mad about the money, that had to be paid, but I now understand his problem with the whole concept of man-made absolution.

The apostles where baptized by the Holy Spirit as well on Pentecost, but that "succession" is nowhere to be found in Scripture, that's a purely man-made monarchist concept. If all that didn't happen in ancient Rome, but in current day's America, the new founded church would be democractic and elect a new a pope all for years by the vote of all members.

I don't say, that you can't find God in Emperor Constantine's institutionalized Christianity, but I believe, the Lord Jesus Christ wants His disciples decentralized and not controlled centrally.

>>805694

>Anon, thanks to the Spirit, I know what is true.

Your personal speculations are your own, you should instead cling to the apostolic traditions and the Church Christ built for you.

>>805690

>>805851

Why are the papists on this board so full of spite? This always happens, they always seem to actually be angry when somebody comes to Christ without joining their club

>>805855

>Why are the papists on this board so full of spite?

I don't think you know what "spite" means, perhaps you can accuse me of speaking boldly, but I'm not being even remotely malicious here.

>>805859

Your heart is clearly full of hate.

>>805861

Do you always revile people who disagree with you?

>>805863

Projection

>>805851

>Your personal speculations are your own, you should instead cling to the apostolic traditions and the Church Christ built for you.

I think you don't understand what "baptized by the Holy Spirit" means. Once it happened, you don't speculate anymore, you KNOW the Lord.

Once you know the Lord, you don't believe in church tradition and catechism, you believe in God, Jesus Christ, the Lord Himself.

You also know - not from fallible human teachers - but from the Lord Himself how sins are confessed and forgiven - in repentance only.

(You know the tiny difference which lead to reformation.)

I'm sorry, but that wasn't my own choice.

>>805855

>This always happens, they always seem to actually be angry when somebody comes to Christ without joining their club

I started my journey completely denomination-agnostic and was happy to attend service in one of those magnificent medieval church buildings, which are everywhere, where I live. I was always impressed by them.

But there were no parents baptizing me as a baby and then forcing me through one school of thought out of tradition.

Then it became crystal-clear, where God set my path and it's not anywhere near the successor of the Roman emperor's state church (which is in tradition still the state church, where I live).

People are leaving that Church in droves, they get baptized as infant and after confirmation never show up again. When entering the workforce they quit entirely, because they believe in nothing and want to save money. The only people still going to Catholic worship are over 70 years old and in other times the buildings are museums filled with Asian tourists.

Sorry, this is not America full of traditionalists here, it is where the Roman Empire actually was. And that empire is fading away quickly - so much for apostolic traditions.

>>805867

>which is in tradition still the state church, where I live

>it is where the Roman Empire actually was

Well that narrows it down quite a bit

>>805869

Well, there is a second state church. You know the one inadvertently founded by state rulers impressed by Martin Luther after some minor occurrence known as the 30 years war…

Their parishes are just as dying out as the Roman-Catholic ones, some of their churches have even been sold off and turned into mosques.

And then there are Orthodox churches scattered wherever some Christian immigrants happen to live, preaching and speaking languages I don't understand. Which is just part of a cultural conquest (next to mosques preaching in Arabic), because Orthodoxy has no rooting in my own culture.

But it might look all fine and dandy from inside the American bubble.

>>805867

>Once it happened, you don't speculate anymore, you KNOW the Lord.

So you're a Quaker?

>>805883

Neither me nor my ancestors have ever been to mid-17th century England.

You find Spirit-baptized people in all churches and denominations and of course also completely outside of them (like I used to be).

I'm not choosing my favorite Protestant splinter group based my personal liturgy preferences. It's God will, which matters, and He decides, where I end up.

>>804720

>After talking to the deacon and other Christians in person I realized that something is very different in their and my faith. They have occasional doubts and need worship, I'm completely free of those, because the Lord is always with me and communicating all day and night.

Haven't followed this thread, but that sounds prelest-y, tbh.

>>805912

I don't even know what that means.

>>805912

okay, googled it

>from Russian: прелесть

>according to Holy Fathers of Orthodox Church

Thank you for your theological input, Russian brother, I love you, too.

Thank God, the Holy Fathers of Orthodox Church have no power where I live.

>>805912

Okay, let's assume OP picked up a Bible one day and did catch a mental illness instead of spirit gift as a result. Since then OP got told by his delusion:

>1. You need to stop sinning, Anon. Yes, that especially means to stop watching porn and masturbating

>2. You need to pray multiple times each day, confess your sins and repent, Anon

>3. You need to read your Bible daily, Anon.

>4. You need to get out of your comfort zone, Anon, and go to church, because you cannot be Christian in your closet.

>5. You need to use your talents to help your parish.

>6. You need to find a wife and multiply.

The way to heal a mental illness is to take meds helping ignoring the delusion or doing the opposite of what it tells.

Is this Orthodox teaching? Help me understand it please.

>>805914

>Thank you for your theological input, Russian brother, I love you, too.

I'm not even Russian.

But in every spiritual advice book i've read, from the Desert Fathers , to greek hermits, assyrian mystics, to medieval catholic monks, there's one thing thats drilled again and again:

The most dangerous way people fall into spiritual deception, and the most common way, is folks at the start of their spiritual journey suddenly feeling charisms flowing out their ears, with visions and hearings of God, Christ, saints, loved ones, etc., and thinking their spiritual elders are a bunch of hacks, and they are the ones that REALLY get it all.

>>805973

This. And water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, bar invincible ignorance.

>>804629

/x/ wins the hunger games and suddenly every religious board is filled with this Kenneth Schueller garbage. Go away, smiley.

>>806063

anon, the only reason you are saying these words is because you have not experienced something like this for yourself. The experience itself is all the validation that is required to know (as in, /know/) the living Christ.

Comments like your own are only written out of ignorance, or fear, perhaps, of the unknown and seemingly unverifiable. To be clear: OP did not /do/ anything. GOD did something. God's grace is a GIFT. and it is truly, truly, truly amazing when it is given. But yes, anon, this does in fact occur.

Many people /have/ experienced something like this, and /can/ verify it is a real experience. Many anons are reaching out to OP with reports back about their own experience after such an event has occurred. OP is a /witness/. I am a witness, also. Many on this board are also witnesses. Many people throughout the world are witnesses. Witnesses report on what they have seen and heard. I am not good, OP is not good. GOD is good. Bless the Lord, O my soul! Blessed be the name of the Lord!

OP here. I have no real charismatic gifts. No tongues or whatever. I just got a few gifts here and there helping me with tasks I had to accomplish for the Lord.

Still the personal relationship with the living God is a fact. Even the distance can be perceived and immediately increases, when in sin. Continue sinning and the Lord leaves and you're back depending on faith alone.

Honest repentance gets you closer to God again, and it doesn't involve any priests for absolution. Only the Lord can take you back and forgive your sins.

>>805867

>I think you don't understand what "baptized by the Holy Spirit" means. Once it happened, you don't speculate anymore, you KNOW the Lord.

>

>Once you know the Lord, you don't believe in church tradition and catechism, you believe in God, Jesus Christ, the Lord Himself.

>

>You also know - not from fallible human teachers - but from the Lord Himself how sins are confessed and forgiven - in repentance only.

>

>(You know the tiny difference which lead to reformation.)

>

>I'm sorry, but that wasn't my own choice.

This is spot on.

>>805690

More catholic idolatry. Catholics worship the "host of heaven" and place their faith in rituals and dogma. This is why the catholic church is so corrupt, why pedophilia and homosexuality are such universal traits of catholic priests.

>>805886

OK, so you're a pseudo-perennialist? No matter how you try to phrase it, there has already been someone who has systematized your error.