/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

The nature of the whole world is corrupted because of the Fall. I don't care much about "naturally developped religions". God came down to tell us about the reality of things, something we couldn't have learned through science, philosophy, or archeology.

>>803702

This is one of those things where imagination about hypotheticals turns into a big stumblingblock people set up for themselves. They figure for the sake of figuring that there must have been situations where things they fear might be are realized, even when the reality of life shows a different picture. This is because God is in charge, not us. And it's not just optional to have the trust that he is the most just being in existence.

When you are find yourself to think in hypotheticals about what it must be like in the past or some distant place, remember that these are all unproven, but merely your mind's attempt to fill in the world. Or in many cases especially now, ideas others have planted in your mind. Which may not even be true. Because again, that's just our imagination and Jeremiah 17:9 says the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. So take the humility not to let it define your perception.

I truly believe, without watering down the meaning even at all, that the following is true.

>But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Hebrews 11:6

>Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

>For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 7:7-11

>For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1:20

Hope that helps.

>>803702

>Christian faith makes a lot of sense but it relies a lot on revelation that was limited to the vast majority of humanity for the vast majority of history.

The way this is phrased suggests that the incarnation of the Son actually changed the way the world works, but the Son in Christian theology did not do this. Of course He was instrumental in creating the universe as the Word, but the sacrifice on the cross is means that the same moral and religious ideas are simply conducted on different terms, not that the rules had changed per se.

At least this is what I understood by the idea that the sacrifice is for all time. God is not limited by human notions of causality; you see this when Jesus heals the centurion's servant.

>>803709

I'll check that book out.

>>803713

Thanks for the big answer, it does help.

>>803746

I don't understand what you mean? Ye the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world and the sacrifice apply for all time, but faith is required same as the centurion no?

>So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17

What I meant is that this faith was limited to a very small people while the majority of the world had to rely on "natural" religion

Germans developed a theory called Urmonotheismus: basically there was one monotheistic religion and polytheism is merely a degraded version of it due to fetishization of inanimate objects and ancestor worship. There's also concept of Sky-Father which at first possibly denoted being Father of entire mankind and with emergence of polytheism concept degraded and represented to be merely head of the pantheon.

I consider this theory to be a good explanation and in line with Christian world view. And, obviously being shunned by modern day scholars.

Religions throughout history are exactly what I would expect from the Biblical story. There's a lot of shared ideas. For example: sacrifice, a flood, patriarchs, etc. It's what I would expect to happen from a single source splitting off into disparate pieces and slowly forgetting the fine details. The reason why we even have the fine details ourselves is because God spoke directly to Abraham and Moses and their people. Otherwise, as the Bible heavily implies, they would have forgetten the LORD and the true faith.

I also think Paul's letter tot he Romans, or at least the first chapter, touches on this general topic:

>For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

>Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

>For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

>And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

actually, it is the similitude of all these pagans religions that make me believe. animism and the like all appear to be the same error through different cultural lens.

scripture tells us that the religion of MAN is to worship material objects, or to worship a diverse pantheon of gods (which is usually an extension from the material, frankly).

even in the new world, scripture still told the truth.