/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Who told you God created evil? God created Lucifer, but iniquity was later "found" in him due to pride. It never says God PLACED iniquity in him. It says he was found with iniquity, due to his own pride.

God created the heavens and earth, but he did not create darkness or chaos. He created light, and all his creatures afterwards he called "good". Not once does the scripture say that God looked on his creation and called any of it bad. And after the act creation, he didn't create the death or destruction. That was brought about by Satan, and Adam, and Eve.

>>803244

>Natural evil is sort of impossible to not have, having air to breath and water to drink means that clouds will form into a hurricane once in a while. Nobody is at fault for this, nor can God be said to be in the wrong.

Even then, and this is hard to swallow for some, but even rain wasn't a part of God's original creation.

"the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground" - Genesis 2:5-6

Not once does it ever say it rained after that either, until Noah's flood. Which in itself was a reaction against evil, not part of the original act of creation. Genesis and the ancient mindset in general didn't exactly look upon waters kindly. God is said to have separated waters and brings order out of that chaos by bringing out land, then enclosing waters below the earth and above. Noah's stories broke the "levies" from below and above, but only because man had become exceedingly corrupt - partly due to the first part of Genesis 6, where abominations (the nephillim) were created when angels broke their vows and mated with women. Again, this is not a creation of God, but an abomination. And he wiped it out, as he should have.

>>803244

Regarding natural evils I always understood it in terms of the 'Wisdom of God' at the end of the book of Job, when God takes Job on a tour of creation to show him how complicated it all is.

>>803231

>Why did God create evil? Couldn't he create a world with free will that was free of evil?

Good an evil are contingent on each other. Without evil, there is no such thing as good.

And I think I know the next question already.

>If God is so good, why doesn't he stop evil?

God allows us to make our decisions ourselves, it's us who are evil. God is the judge of all humanity, and humans show their true selves in the absence of immediate consequences, so for God to judge humanity justly, he must first allow us to show our true selves, hence the rampant evil in the world. It would be unjust for God to judge us on crimes we did not commit.

>>803252

>implying evil is substantiative rather than an absence of good

Lurk moar.

>Why did God create evil?

How can God rebel against Himself?

>Couldn't he create a world with free will that was free of evil?

He will, but he wants the world to know Him first and doesn't wish to harm the overall harvest.

Honestly, no good answers so far.

Here you have some Catholic perspective from Ed Feser:

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/10/laws-evil-god-challenge.html?m=1

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/10/god-obligation-and-euthyphro-dilemma.html?m=1

You can't have free will without the possibility of evil

>Couldn't he create a three sided square?

>>803231

>Why did God create evil?

God did not create evil. And no evil can come from God, either.

James 1:12-15

>Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Wisdom 1:12-15

>Do not invite death by the error of your life,

or bring on destruction by the works of your hands; because God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. For he created all things so that they might exist; the generative forces of the world are wholesome, and there is no destructive poison in them, and the dominion of Hades is not on earth. For righteousness is immortal.

>Couldn't he create a world with free will that was free of evil?

He did. Evil was introduced by the angels who, with their free will, chose to turn against God. Their leader, Satan, came down on earth to trick Adam and Eve into turning away from God as well. The rest is history.

Evil does not have an essential existence by itself. Evil is a lack of good, a "parasite" that latches onto God's good world, so to speak. All things were made good by nature, even the demons - see Genesis 1.

>>803244

>So I don't think a world without evil is possible

A world without evil is possible. The world was without evil before the Fall and it will be without evil at the eschaton.

>>803252

>Good an evil are contingent on each other. Without evil, there is no such thing as good.

And yet the Kingdom of God is described as perfect good, without evil.

>>803431

A correction to this: we must take into account the influence of the Devil, but you get the idea.

Anyone who thinks they could make a better universe go ahead.

>>803434

>Evil was introduced by the angels who, with their free will, chose to turn against God

But doesn't God know that someone will betray him?

>>803477

Sure, but that doesn't mean He created them for that express purpose of them being evil. Those angels, like us men, are given free will to choose to love and obey God.

God created humans to love and worship him.

You cannot love something you are forced to love - it's not love then.

This is why we were given choice. Imagine chaining someone up and forcing them to give you compliments; would it be authentic.

Inherent in that choice is the option not to love God (sin).

>>803252

>Good an evil are contingent on each other

No they are not.

Evil is contingent on good. Good can exist in and of itself.

God is good without depending on anything, while Satan is evil but even he depends on God for his existence. God must give him being before he can say "thats mine" and twist it in his own image.

Evil isn't even something that is "created". Evil is simply the absence of good. Just how darkness is merely the absence of light.

>>804450

Exactly. Evil is either to corruption or the absence of good.

This further reinforced when we observe the nature of sin.

Its either when we dont perform a good required or when we subvert the good for our own benefit at the expense of others.

>>803231

>Couldn't he create a world with free will that was free of evil?

What would be the point of such a world?

>>804559

There would be no point and there would be no love, for you cannot force someone to love you it must be done out of free will.

Love without free will would make us no different than insects or robots connected to an allpowerful AI.

>>803252

>Good an evil are contingent on each other.

no

>>803231

>Why did God create evil?

What exactly do you think "evil" is? It's not a substance; there aren't little particles of evil floating around causing you to sin. "Evil" is a word which describes actions that you do that go against the will of God. It's not a noun, it's an adjective. Nothing is created with a little evil mixed in; it's just that you commit evil deeds. You may as well sit here and ask us why God created funny. Funny isn't a substance, it's just that you sometimes tell funny jokes. You're using words improperly, and it's confusing you.

Read the Confessions of Saint Augustine.

>Couldn't he create a world with free will that was free of evil?

In other words, "Couldn't He grant men free will but also deprive them of free will?" The answer is no, because the question is nonsense. If men have free will, then they have the ability to use their wills in ways that displease God. Otherwise their wills aren't free. God can't grant you restricted free will, any more than He can really go so far as to use even go want to do look more like; this isn't a question of omnipotence, it's merely a question of nonsense.

Read CS Lewis' The Problem of Pain.

a world is either inconceivable (so with us unable to understand or perceive it) or has absence of evil incompatible with free will. If you are free you can choose evil. If you cannot you aren't.

So basically you are asking for a world alien to your perception or understanding.

>>803434

>>>803252

>>Good an evil are contingent on each other. Without evil, there is no such thing as good.

>And yet the Kingdom of God is described as perfect good, without evil.

yo smartass, the kingdom of god is where those who KNEW evil and chose to follow good end up.

So, while evil is not present, they all are familiar with the concept, because they lived in the imperfect world. Therefore they can tell good from evil. I can't believe these sophism still has traction. It's like asking well so what happens if somebody in heaven wants to be evil? Oh i dunno, maybe god knows past present and future so the possibility doesn't even materialize, or maybe they get demoted to hell, does considering a possibility deny the feasibility of a system? Since when? "Oh this car can't do 200kph because the wheel might want to roll into the engine bay"? what the winnie the pooh? have you tested the car? no? stfu then.

>>803231

OP, if tomorrow, everybody on this God-forsaken planet decided to simply love one another and love God then that would solve a lot of problems. But of course we aren't going to do that.