/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I just pray as a means to meditate my worldly problems/concerns/mental state with the help of god. I'd want to pray many times a day but due to the nature of my work that doesn't provide stable hours, i just end up praying 1 time a day before work, as arriving home i just go straight to bed.

By the way what book is that? Never heard of any orthodox prayer book where i'm from.

>>795335

No idea tbh, just found the pic online and found it fitting to the context of the post.

I have an Orthodox prayer book myself but that's in the local language and is unrelated to the one in the pic.

>>795342

What kind of orthodox prayer book are you talking about? Who's is authored by, which country is it from at least?

>>795343

It's Serbian.

>>795316

>We're talking of praying privately and from heart, but for now I only know the Our Father and the Jesus Prayer from heart, so I rely a lot on this prayer book, it just feels wrong but at the same time I think it's the best I can do for now.

>What should I do to address this, just pray by the book's daily prayer rule or try to memorize it all?

Nothing wrong with praying the prayers of the Church. They may not be your own words from your mind, but if you are truly in the Church then they are the words of the Spirit praying in you, and praying in the saints.

The Bible has a whole prayer book in it (the Psalms) and obviously most people aren't expected to remember it by heart.

I have horrible memory so I would be in great despair if I were expected to remember everything I'm supposed to read, or to say at church.

By the way, after you get used to the prayers of the Liturgy/Mass (whether you want to begome ordodox or cadolig) and the prayers of your own prayer book, don't hesitate to pray with your own words too.

>>795347

>Psalms

>Having anything to do with Christianity

let me guess, you're a protestant that thinks the OT is binding to the new covenant and therefor christians need to rely on it …

>>795348

>Psalms

>a book of the Christian Old Testament

>having anything to do with Christianity

There's more to the Bible than NT Anon, take it outside please.

>>795347

Thank you, I will keep it in mind but if it comes to formulating a prayer of my own that will be quite some time away from now, every word counts and every word is remembered so it is a monumental task.

>>795349

What's the point in relying on Psalms for prayers when you could just pick the prayers from the Good News? That or convert to Judaism

>>795350

Why not rely on Psalms for prayers among other sources?

>>795348

Not a response I expected…

I'm not sure you've ever opened an Orthodox prayer book. I'm not sure you've ever been to a Mass or Divine Liturgy, in fact.

Psalms are all over the place. The Psalter is inspired scripture. Prayer books have a lot of the Psalms - in fact Psalm 51 is read daily, and many Orthodox own a Psalter apart from the Bible. The Daily Office has tons of Psalms (in fact most of the Midnight Office is the dreaded Psalm 119). As for the Divine Liturgy, beside all the variable hymns which can be either straight-up Psalms or mixes of various scriptures including the Psalms, you also have Psalms 103 and 146 which are always read at the Liturgy of the Faithful and counted as the Old Testament reading.

>>795349

Don't forget that God knows the contents of your heart whether you say them out loud or not. You're not putting on a performance. But being used to the traditional prayers remains good, so that you can know what to pray for and not find yourself praying something heterodox or something.

>>795350

Are you Catholic or Orthodox (since you criticized Protestants earlier)?

Either way, the Old Testament is inspired, holy, "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3), and it is indeed filled with the Good News, although non-Christians have a veil over their hearts and cannot see it properly (see Isaiah 61:1, although the "good news" become apparent as early as in Genesis 3:15). When "the Law and the prophets", or "the Law, the prophets, and the Psalms" are referred to in the New Testament, it means the whole Old Testament corpus of scriptures, and indeed many good things are said about them: in particular, "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me." (John 5:39)

You say "What's the point in relying on Psalms for prayers when you could just pick the prayers from the Good News", but you do not seem to realize that both are given to us by Christ.

>>795348

We are the descendents of the lost tribes of Israel, therefore the laws thes Old Testament is binding to us.

>>795353

2 Timothy is referring to the prophets, which he used to convince fellow jews that Christ is the messiah, as detailed in the narrative of Luke. He did not mean the entire jewish Tanakh.

>both are given to us by Christ.

No, that's just a lousy burger justification for continual practice of judaizing a form of Mc Christianity with positing the Tanakh over the christian Good News. Why? Because that's how lousy and lazy these so-called christians are, that instead of cherishing the thing that makes our religion unique, simply latch onto the culture that our founder was vehemently critical towards. Get your facts straight.

>>795365

>>795372

Friendly reminder Catholics and Protestants will inevitably go to hell.

>>795505

So you are Orthodox?

Is this what your priest taught you? That only the New Testament and the Prophets are of use for us, but not the Law or the historical writings or the poetic writings?

You are greatly heterodox, and I would be much happier if you were simply trolling.

Jesus is God. Jesus gave the Old Testament, in its entirety. It is Jesus, "I AM", Who spoke to Moses in the burning bush and is therefore the God Who inspired the Pentateuch. Jesus is the Wisdom of God and spoke about Himself in several of the poetic scriptures, especially the Psalms and the books of Solomon.

I assume you are not American, since you attack American Christians. Where are you from that this should be considered Orthodox doctrine?

And in what Fathers do you even read such a claim (that the "scriptures" referred to in 2 Timothy are only the prophets, and that the Father and the Holy Spirit but not the Son gave the Old Testament and therefore we do not use it)?

How do you reconcile this with the Divine Liturgy, which is littered with references to the Old Testament? Are you even aware of this? Does "all things come from You, and of Your own we have given You" sound familiar to you? It's from 1 Chronicles.

Canon 2 of the Council in Trullo recognizes 5 different Biblical canons from the Fathers and local councils, which are books that "must be read in church". They all list the Old Testament. Some books aren't in all 5 lists, like Esther, 3 Ezra, Tobit, Judith… But what you're attacking here is all Old Testament scripture that is not that of the prophets.

>>795358

I really, really, really like that Rosary.

>>795508

I won't bother stating my understanding as i've been banned before seeing as how this entire place is riddled with Catholics, Protestants and McOrthodox™ people from non-orthodox countries.

You don't need to justify Jesus as the Christ to me using fairy tales from the Tanakh because i'm not a Jew or a Protestant, and i'm completely fine with Jesus being the uncreated word of God across all time and across all known scriptures.

But you and other people placing the Tanakh over the Good News is not only doing wrong by Judaizing the Christian faith, since it's a repeatedly condemned historical practice since the beginning of orthodox history.

No, what is worse is that you're mocking Christ himself, who made it his entire ministry by pointing the sins and hypocrisies of the Jews, which used the same scripture to justify their sinful behavior, which is the same you used in your post to justify your beliefs.

And to all of the Orthodox who use "inspired" letters in their services, to them i say they themselves are not inspired and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in them, for instead of multiplying Christ's fruits and what little teachings he left us in the Good news, and through this joy create new blessings for us in form of service, rather be lazy and ignorant of their own religion and openly mock Christ and his mission.

I'll stop now and hopefully leave this place for good.

>>795513

>You don't need to justify Jesus as the Christ to me using fairy tales from the Tanakh because i'm not a Jew or a Protestant, and i'm completely fine with Jesus being the uncreated word of God across all time and across all known scriptures.

But we have entire services dedicated to these "fairy tales"…

>But you and other people placing the Tanakh over the Good News is not only doing wrong by Judaizing the Christian faith, since it's a repeatedly condemned historical practice since the beginning of orthodox history.

Who said anything about putting the Old Testament above the New Testament? You did. No one else did.

>No, what is worse is that you're mocking Christ himself, who made it his entire ministry by pointing the sins and hypocrisies of the Jews, which used the same scripture to justify their sinful behavior, which is the same you used in your post to justify your beliefs.

What "beliefs" of mine are you referring to exactly? I only said that the scriptures reveal Christ to us and we use the Psalter.

>And to all of the Orthodox who use "inspired" letters in their services, to them i say they themselves are not inspired and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in them, for instead of multiplying Christ's fruits and what little teachings he left us in the Good news, and through this joy create new blessings for us in form of service, rather be lazy and ignorant of their own religion and openly mock Christ and his mission.

Dude. Go to church. Speak with your priest.

The Divine Liturgy is -littered- with Old Testament quotes. About 94 from the OT and 114 from the NT.

And please, please tell me which country you come from where your church teaches such a thing. You sound more like a Marcionite than an Orthodox Christian to me, which is extremely alarming if you're actually Orthodox.

>I'll stop now and hopefully leave this place for good.

No, you don't get to run away because you know you messed up. Tell me 1) what country you live in where this is taught, 2) if this is actually what your bishop or priest or catechesis teaches rather than some nonsense you came up with on your own, and 3) which saints or councils taught such things. If you are not ready to defend what you believe is the truth (and attacking those who disagree is not a defense), you disprove yourself.

>>795514

How old are you?

>>795513

>McOrthodox™ people

>said the guy who denies OT as scripture

>non-orthodox countries

So you're Greek? Because that's the only constitutionally Orthodox country on the planet, otherwise you're live in a secular country.

>they themselves are not inspired and the Holy Spirit does not dwell

>the Church Fathers are not inspired and aren't even Christians unlike me, OT denier

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad, you're not even Christian much less Orthodox and you're one step away from Atheism, go ahead and leave I'm sure you won't mind coming back to this place when you'll be inevitably serving Satan willingly in the near future.

Related to the post but really, pick up a prayers book, make your daily prayers, attend church, be sure to ask questions and most certainly, look into the catechism of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

>>795516

23.

It is rude to answer a question with a question. Answer the questions I have asked first.

And I do not care if you are actually 56. My age or your age will not change the testimony of the Fathers as well as the councils of the Church, local and ecumenical, both of which disagree with you.

I will also add - I am not American. I am French. No one in my parish is American, most are Russian, Greek, and Lebanese. My priest is Ukrainian. Now, with that out of the way, please answer my questions.

>>795516

By the way, this is one example of how the Divine Liturgy is littered with quotations from the Old Testament:

https://almoutran.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/The-Bible-In-The-Liturgy.pdf

Ignoring all the "Lord have mercy"'s, which are all tied back to a different Psalm for whatever reason, you can see that when you go to Church, you are bombarded with scriptures, both Old and New Testaments. If you are so allergic to the Tanakh, you may want to stop going to church, but in that case you may also want to stop associating yourself with Orthodoxy (which you are already doing in practice even if not in intention, by rejecting the Old Testament because of muh jews).

>>795521

>>795519

>>795522

>French

It's seeing. You have much more to learn about orthodoxy beyond catechumens and diaspora priests.

>>795523

My argument rests on the Fathers and councils. Your argument rests on location (and possibly age). Furthermore you refuse to engage with my argument or to answer my questions. Tell me, which one appears to be greater, based on this?

Also, one of the posts you have replied to isn't me. Check the IDs.

You refuse to address my questions. I will not entertain you with your monologue, and you will certainly not convince anyone by refusing to have a dialogue either.

>>795523

And you have much more to learn about Orthodoxy beyond your own little and ever prone to weakness, mind which is about as far as you seem to have gotten.

Starting off with reading the OSB back to back and some of the Church Fathers' works at least would be a pretty good start.

>>795522

I do think we're mostly wasting our time here, he answers not to everything brought up against him so this is bordering on casting pearls before swine.

>>795316

>Cathodox

Stop using that word, it's not a thing. Orthodoxy and Catholicsm are two seperate denoms who have fought each other throughout history more than anyone else.

>>795526

I'm aware, it's just a convenient way of saying I'm an inquirer of both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy as of right now, I trust people on /christian/ to know they're two wildely different branches and the term is merely just a shorthand for both branches.

>>795316

> I only know the Our Father and the Jesus Prayer from heart, so I rely a lot on this prayer book, it just feels wrong

That's because it is

>Matthew 6:7 "7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words

There is nothing Christian about the way Catholics pray. They don't pray to God, they demonstrate submission to the church. Your prayer should be simple, honest, and with the understanding that God knows your needs and is taking care of them without you even asking. Spiritual power isn't a result of prayer, it's a result of living how God desires you to live and being open to the leading of God

>>795505

Wow, a subverted person crediting the Bible to modern day yiddish speakers while taking their interpretations as unquestioningly as ever. As much as the first time they lied to you. I'll pray to God for you.

>In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

>And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

2 Timothy 2:25-26

>>795807

You're either ignorant to the point where it's not even funny or just straight up trolling so this is the last one from me, since you've been only providing non-answers when rightfully called out on your Heterodox thinking that's backed up by nothing.

I'm going to hit you with the reality real quick chief, your culture is irrelevant overall when it comes to the faith and no amount of pretending it to be ingrained in your culture and calling others meme converts will prevent you from falling into absolutely heretical thinking like the one you're demonstrating.

How can you deny OT as a whole with a serious face, basing your entire argument on your cultural origin and then cry meme converts?

Take a week off from the internet and study your own theology, you're in dire need of it.

>>795821

Come on. At least the idea of a "starter pack" is kind of funny.

I had no idea Fr. Stephen Damick (Orthodoxy/Heterodoxy) qualified to be in that though. He seems like a normie and talks like an SJW. He and Seraphim Rose couldn't be more different.

>>795807

Is your meme implying that the Turks are good for massacring Christians?

>>795348

>>795350

Are you a Marcionist? That's a heresy you know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

>>795316

OP, read the Liturgy of the Hours. That is exactly what you need. You do not need to pray all 7 of them (or even 8), that is for Monks. Nonetheless, you can focus on Laudes and Vesperae and/or Completorium.

You can find in this link all you need for this: https://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl#

Another thing you can do is pray the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary https://www.baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=47#tab=tab-1

>>795521

If that is you, OP, here are my specific recommandations.

Écoute les prières du Barroux pour avoir une idée des Laudes et Vêpres/Complies.

https://www.barroux.org/fr/liturgie/ecoutez-nos-offices.html

Tu peux trouver sur leur site d'excellents livres de prières quotidienne (le Diurnal monastique).

+ https://boutique.barroux.org/liturgie-monastique/892-diurnal-monastique-9782906972407.html (en latin ET français)

+ Si tu aimes les chants ou souhaite t'y mettre, il y a aussi l'Antiphonaire:

https://boutique.barroux.org/liturgie-monastique/899-antiphonaire-monastique-9782852741737.html

Toutes les offices sont traditionnelles (en latin, rit extraordinaire). Si cela t'intéresse cependant, Vatican II a simplifié la prière des heures (peut être une des seules bonnes choses de l'église moderne), si bien que tu peux trouver des formes assez écourtées. Je trouve cependant que ce n'est pas très joli et le latin est bien meilleure.

>>807092

OP here, been using that prayers book since and I fell it's great, but I1ll take a look thank you fren.

I wasn't the French guy you were replying to though.

>>807109

Right, I realized that later. You could still listen to https://www.barroux.org/fr/liturgie/ecoutez-nos-offices.html to get an idea of what the liturgy of the hours look like (in latin). The setup time takes them usually 2 to 3 minutes, so start listening then.

Knowing the full liturgy of the hours by heart takes time, as overall if you use the non censored version (modern rite) there is 150 psalms. It is possible though, and I believe studying the bible at the same time as you pray as many benefits.

The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary though I believe can be learnt by heart relatively easily. It's the same prayers every week, so after a couple of weeks you should be set in. It has the extra advantage of having all the notes you need to sing all your prayers if you want to expand in that direction later.

>>807092

If you like praying the hours in latin, there is a nice english-latin version available in Baronius press, btw.

https://www.baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=59#tab=tab-1

Note that this is not the monastic one (the monastic is slightly longer), this is the one hours the priest usually use. In practice, it is a little shorter than the one you can listen to in the Barroux.