/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>I understand it started with Martin Luther

:D

I have autism. I'm unsure how severe yours is. I never do any of the singing or speaking out loud; instead, I do it all in my head. After awhile I was able shake hands during that part of Mass and say amen out loud when taking Communion. The Catholic Church's interpretations of the Bible seem legitimate to me. They use a long tradition of reason and logic in their interpretations. Scholasticism was all about logic, and I personally love it (maybe partly due to autism?, so you might like Scholasticism too).

>>785699

All of this seems like a test of faith that's not really exclusive to autistic people TBH. Everything you've described is something I've felt or thought about before, and I'm nowhere on the spectrum. I'm just an Antisocial weirdo. As to feeling confused about sects and multiple interpretations, that's kind of just how literature works. there's the people who have an accurate interpretations of the work, and people who project their own views onto the work. That's part of why I turn to extra-biblical things like history and literature to determine who is who.

Part of the reason why I was put off from Protestantism is that the concept of the Solas and other doctrines seemed obviously counter-biblical to me. Additionally there was a general sense of historic revisionism/ignorance in the arguments and apologetic I'd read, which seems counter to the idea of an eternal church. After all, heresy was very well documented even in the ancient church, so it just seems like there would at least be some record of major Protestant-esque sects even back in the day. The implication then becomes that either there are just no records of this faith,or that the form of Christianity that dominated Europe for hundreds of years was false… and I'm inclined to doubt both of those conclusions based off of both scripture and historic records. I'm not saying the size/popularity of Catholicism is proof of its validity after all, the church actively denies such a philosophy but I'm saying all of these issues compounded are what turned me off of it.

When it comes to Orthodoxy vs. Catholicism, things obviously get a bit more grey. And it all comes down to which doctrine you interpret as more bionically and/or historically accurate to ancient christian thought.

As far as the anti-social aspect goes, I would say that part of true faith is getting out of your comfort zone, so while I'm sure I as someone off the spectrum can only sympathize so much, I would say you need to embrace the challenge rather than hide from it. If not, there's always ascetic Christianity.you could look into, dependent on your status in life atm.

>>785699

Bro, relax. How about you channel your autism into good works? You needn't go around converting people, and if you live faithful to the truth you will win respect. There are many people who don't care at all, even though they are Christian, and some even go to church with that attitude.

In respect of what version of Christianity you should follow, which things you consider authoritative, etc. the internet is a useful tool. You are literate, your honest moral engagement with the material (the Bible, tradition, commentaries) should be sufficient. If you are uncertain, it is not a sin to hesitate in coming to judgement.

>>785716

I don't know why it corrected biblically to bionically, but my dyslexia made me not notice until now…

>>785712

It's high functioning, but I get real uncomfortable real quick in situations with a lot of noise and people. By the end of a few church sessions I'm shaking a bit because I wanted to get out of the crowd.

>>785716

It's not whether I feel which one feels right, it's whether one is correct. I've always been told not to make assumptions, and assuming one is right and basing my whole belief around it scares me something fierce, especially if it's wrong.

>>785717

Good works like what?

>>785716

>>785699

But inevitably, Christian traditions are supposed to foster community and personal development, since God is love and also one must store up treasures in heaven. So even if you take a monastic route, that doesn't mean that you won't have to challenge autistic tendencies. After all, you are basically giving yourself over to a lifetime of community service, it's not like you will be spared the hardship of communicating because you're the autistic monk.

>>785725

Good works;

>Improving your health (you are a temple of the Holy Spirit)

>Abstaining from immoral habits (porn is mostly cited here, but getting hammered/drunk is also a sin)

>Helping others in general

>Prayer

>Community service, if you are into it

And these next two, that I fear to tell an autistic religious person, for reasons I will elaborate;

>Almsgiving (but not in excess)

>Fasting (but not in excess)

I know you've said you're autistic, so try not to do anything that is excessive/harmful to yourself or your finances. Autistic people should be afraid of themselves in this regard; I knew a young girl who nearly starved herself fasting. She was such a wonderful person, but completely autistic. Please therefore, don't do anything where you think you could bring it to a point of self-destructive excess, doing so would be against self-love, self-love is the requisite foundation of all other love so you are NOT to repeat the heresy of the flagellants 700 years after the fact by self-harming. Please.

>>785725

First of all, and most importantly, listen to this anon: >>785734

Secondly, to address your OP question, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbDsxw-e0m3mIkapUEZ_-5BEOr19F4t73

>>785699

Hello, I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition.

There is at least one person who posts on this board who also has an Autism Spectrum Disorder.

I was raised Reformed Calvinist, specifically Presbyterian.

I was then a Solas Baptist.

I am yet outside of the Catholic Church, so I am not yet saved.

If you are outside of the Catholic Church, then you are not saved.

Confessional churches that are yet Protestant are outside of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church seems the most conducive to me.

The Tridentine Mass requires minimal spoken interaction on the part of the laity.

The Tridentine Mass accedes little to ambiguity or personal interpretation.

The Tridentine Mass is regular and ritual.

Aristotelian-Thomistic philosophy is conducive to a systematizing understanding.

The Rosary algorithm is regular.

OK

>>785840

Do you like poetry?

>>785840

same was diagnosed in high school. I didn't know what to think of it. Now I pray to saint thorlak when i'm stressed and panicking. god bless : D

>>785728

>>785734

>>785753

Well, I don't want to be a monk, but that's part of my problem. Will a monk more likely go to Heaven than I, because they decide to dedicate their life to Him while I go to work and save money and spend some on video games and my mother? How much do I dedicate before I can tell myself 'this is enough, you can stop now?' Jesus died on the cross for my sins, so why would it be a problem for me to push myself as hard as I can? I sometimes get panic attacks over little mistakes, but now when I think of Christianity little mistakes can lead to damnation and eternal hellfire.

>>785840

Well, I'm catholic, but that's a whole other can of worms. Most people I've known are protestants or baptists and they ask why I venerate Mary and I don't know what to say about that.

>>786077

>they ask why I venerate Mary and I don't know what to say

Emebd related goes over the false notion that we can't pray to others in Heaven because everyone is "dead" in heaven which is false

Our God is the God of the living, and those in heaven are living in the one body of Jesus Christ.

Chirst asks us to pray for one another, but that doesn't mean we can't ask those in heaven to pray for us.

For we are family in Christ, and family lifts each other up, wether we are in heaven or here on earth.

I'm diagnoised with Asperger's Syndrome and as an aspiring Catholic, one of the things that really helped diffuse my social anxiety was NoFap. Porn and masturbation, like other vices, are coping mechanisms for problems that you have about life. Think about if you have any crippling vices in your life and how they have developed in the first place. The best way to minimize social anxiety is to take refuge in clean living and meditate on why people make you anxious in the first place.

>>786129

whoops, I misspelled "diagnosed"

>>786077

>Why venerate Mary?

>1) Because Mary was the first Christian.

>2) Because she loves the incarnation more than anybody else ever will as He is her Son, and hence she loves God the Father more than anyone else ever will, since the Son and the Father are of one substance.

>3) Luke 1:46-55, from henceforward all generations shall call her blessed, this in itself should be enough to convince anyone that venerating Mary is a biblical practice, even if you were a Sola Scriptura Protestant, you have to admit that St. Luke condones, supports and agrees with Mariology, by giving us this, our first Mariological hymn.

>4) When Mary goes to visit Elizabeth, Luke has St. Elizabeth openly venerating Mary by saying "blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb" which is included in the Hail Mary prayer.

>5) If you believe in and recite the Nicene creed, then you believe in "the communion of saints," therefore you agree with communing with saints. To commune is to communicate in an intimate manner, such as in the phrase "I communed with my parents," meaning I talked with them in private. Therefore you may pray to saints for intercession, and even pray to people who have passed away whom you knew personally, if you recite the Nicene creed you have given yourself licence to do so.

Ergo, Mariology is canonical, and anyone who says otherwise is an atheist.

>t. Anglican

Regarding what you should do, just work on yourself. I think you would please Christ immensely by confronting your autism; I know that will be hard, but anyone can train themselves to be more sociable, I did it myself and I was diagnosed with Aspergers, and as a kid I wouldn't look anyone in the eye. If you discipline yourself in this area, such as by forcing yourself to look others in the eye if you suffer from that problem, I think that one day sooner than you think, you will reap abundant good fruit from doing so.

>>786077

>How much do I dedicate before I can tell myself 'this is enough, you can stop now?'

Until the moment you die and await your final judgement.

>Jesus died on the cross for my sins, so why would it be a problem for me to push myself as hard as I can?

Because that's not how it works. Jesus didn't die to absolve you of your sins as if it were some kind of exchange, in the way pagans performed sacrifices to appease their gods. Just think about it, who would he be negotiating with in that situation? Himself (as the Father)? That makes no sense. Was he sacrificing himself to The Father, apart from himself? That's effectively the Tritheism heresy which breaks the trinity, or at worse, it's the Marcionism heresy in disguise. Was he trading-in his life to the devil? That's just blasphemous, because it'd imply the devil somehow has rule over the will of God. And if he literally died in exchange for humanity's sins, what was the point of him asking us to choose to follow him if he was just planning to purify us all along anyway? Jesus died to demonstrate the extent of his love for us, and to show us not only that his word was true, but also to prove that it is possible for us to transcend death and no longer live in fear of it. Any interpretation of Jesus' death that implies some kind of transaction happening that required his life in exchange for our "salvation", inevitably ends up in blasphemy or contradiction. Jesus sacrificed himself the way a father might sacrifice himself to provide a better life for his child, and he expected us to sacrifice ourselves in a similar fashion to reach the kingdom of heaven, thus he modelled how to live such a life for us so that we may be able to more easily follow him.

I recommend you read through "On the Incarnation" by St. Athanasius to get a clearer understanding of what Jesus' life and death actually meant:

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/athanasius/incarnation.html

Also, try watching these to get a better understanding of salvation specifically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosgwLekgn8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZsHLZPWZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_nxqp1Zwqs

>>786143

When I say 'how much do I dedicate,' I mean stuff like money, or time, or food, or energy. Do I quit my job and dedicate full time to a church? Do I just donate all the money I make? Do I give away everything I own that I don't need? You make it sound absolute, and I know that's the point, but for every 'this is the solution I'm looking for' I get a 'well, that could be a problem, why not try this instead?' I get that Jesus died for our sins and nothing can match that sacrifice, but at the same time, dedicating my life would put the rest of my family into a bad situation. It feels like either I go to Hell for certain or my family suffers for me trying to atone.

>>786150

>It feels like either I go to Hell for certain or my family suffers for me trying to atone.

Just stop, you've got this all wrong, let me try to explain;

What you need isn't legalism, Christ died to show us a better way than the law, the way of Love, which is of God. Basically you need to be worldly wise, but loving also, and to respond naturally to the grace you are given. Just stop thinking and start loving if that makes any sense. If you need more assistance, pray. You have a faculty within you called the conscience, to perceive what is right and Godly, just stop smothering it with your own thoughts for the love of Jesus Christ!

Your conscience knows better than you do, you may be autistic, but you are not smarter than the God that gave you your conscience to reprove you and show you the right way. If you can humbly be obedient to your conscience in all things, you would be perfect.

Religion is not a replacement for morality, religion is to morality as vitamins are to food. Vitamins are not a replacement for food, you will get sick if you try to make them into a replacement for food, vitamins are only supplemental. Likewise, religion is supplemental to morality, and assists moral and personal growth, but it is not morality, or personality for that matter.

So just stop it. Stop turning religion itself into an idol. You're distressing me greatly, especially with comments about having other people suffer for bad reasons.

>>786150

You should do what you can to the best of your abilities at your particular stage in life. There isn't really a clearer answer to the question than that. Obviously not everyone has to become a monk to get into heaven, nor become a priest even. The reason Saints are considered "Saints" is because their accomplishments stood out more than most other people's, but obviously you need not be a Saint to get into heaven either.

Do what you feel comfortable with for your situation, and perhaps pray that you might feel comfortable with doing more in the future if you're bothered by how little you're doing in the present. It's important to remember that your story isn't over so long as you're still alive. Many people don't come around to performing their most saintly acts until they're in the final stages of their life. Do you think the loving God would actually hold it against them for acting "too late"? Time is irrelevant to the eternal God, he only cares about how much you truly loved him in the end. So the point isn't that performing a ton of works will save you, it's that the love of God often manifests itself in performing abundant works as a byproduct. But if performing works helps strengthen your love of God, then by all means partake in as much of that as you feel necessary, because those works are to build your love, not to appease God. So if doing something (like putting your family in a bad spot) will make you grow uneasy or resentful towards God, then it's not something you're ready to do yet, or aren't meant to do at all. At which point praying asking for guidance or a spiritual father is possibly the best use of your time, because there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution for everyone in all different circumstances.

>for every 'this is the solution I'm looking for' I get a 'well, that could be a problem, why not try this instead?

Right, which is the point of why the church was conceived in the first place, because we need a community with knowledgeable peers to help us live out 'The Way'. This isn't because following Jesus in a satisfactory way is some kind of complex rocket science, but because Jesus deliberately intended for us to rely on and help each other. In other words, it's the journey we're all sharing that matters, not the exact answers to your questions. That may seem unsatisfying at first, but you're still free to deeply study those issues in the form of theology and practice if you wanted to of course, and in return you'd be of help to your community with your knowledge of such matters, thus covering your works that show your love of God.

But honestly, you're probably better off talking to a local pastor about the details of your concerns/circumstances, and asking him to help guide you instead of an online biblical basket weaving forum.

>>786150

>You make it sound absolute, and I know that's the point, but for every 'this is the solution I'm looking for' I get a 'well, that could be a problem, why not try this instead?'

The suggestions we give you are also merely that, suggestions. We are asking you to weigh up the merits of action A or action B with your conscience.

If you can't understand this level of extrapolation, then go to a priest, tell him you are totally autistic, and ask him to assign you a task you can reasonably perform as a layperson which would help you to develop for you to perform once a week. Please make sure to perform this task and no more and no less; if he assigns 5 decades of the Rosary a week, do not do 10, clearly if you need this kind of help, pretty soon you will develop an obsessive compulsion, (I know what autistic people are like) and indulging OCD tendencies is not discipline.

>>786175

This. If it helps you any OP, you could try reading this story that kinda shares your same predicament a bit:

https://desertfathers.webs.com/thewayofthepilgrim.htm

>>786177

btw, thank you for helping in this thread, this is a learning impediment that I don't have but which is significant to my personal experience, so charity sucked me in.

It's very hard to deal with even though I know that there could be much benefit for anon if I had the right explanation. Once autistic people are put on the right track, no matter how hard it is, everything goes smoothly though.

>>786165

The reason it all makes me worried, as pathetic as it sounds, is I want to see my family in Heaven. But then I start thinking about how the bible describes that Jesus/God is all we have in Heaven, and nothing about family or pets or anything. Also, my conscious is guilty as can be, because I never think I'm doing enough, that's the problem. I always worry that God would say 'well, you did good, but not good enough' or 'you didn't do anything evil, just sinful.' Like I can remember things I did ten-fifteen years ago that still make me feel guilty. People tell me to just stop worrying about it, but I can't seem to do that.

>>786169

So, from my understanding, it's not 'did I do enough,' it's 'do I feel comfortable with what I have done?'

>>786175

Well, I'm not totally autistic. It's more I can't tell when someone is being sarcastic/generic/joking with me sometimes. Like if someone said 'drive straight over there' and I end up running over an object (not a person). Obviously, they meant drive over there, but I didn't think that.

>>786181

Usually that's how it works. Once I got something down I can do it no problem. The problem is being 100% confident about it.

>>786575

>So, from my understanding, it's not 'did I do enough,' it's 'do I feel comfortable with what I have done?'

For your situation, basically yes. All that matters is whether you're on the right track, not how far up the mountain you've climbed, and you can verify how things are going for you with a blessing from your local pastor if you ever feel unsure about your trajectory. And remember to continue praying asking for God to help guide you so that you can at least take confidence in the fact that you're genuinely trying, which is what God ultimately wants from us in the end anyway.

>>786181

No problem. I have adhd+dyslexia myself, so I can often kinda empathize with people that have different ways of looking at the world, as I myself often feel like I have no idea wtf I'm doing most of the time, lol.

>>786575

I've longed to hear your response and just when I had begun to read the story attached to this post >>786177 you answered. Short of a miracle, something that story is full of, but nevertheless what I wanted.

At any rate, let's see if I can help;

>I want to see my family in Heaven

I confess ignorance about what is contained in heaven, I'm sure God knows what is best for us. St Paul of the Cross says that the soul should be happy like the potter's clay; either to be made into a great artwork, or be thrown into the rubbish. Once you are dead and hid in Christ (Colossians 3:3) you won't have fears about what is or isn't in heaven, although your love for your family is of God, and it is very good of course. Perhaps this is still something you will come to understand later, but also there are many gifts you will get before you die, which will secure you from all doubts that the Christian path through life is best. One of the best is a clean conscience imo. Which brings me to your next point:

>I can remember things I did ten-fifteen years ago that still make me feel guilty.

Confess them to a priest or to the person that you wronged if they can still be found, get it off your chest once and you will never think of it again. You will be happier thereafter.

**Also, regarding the idea that all you have in heaven is God, try to bear in mind that that is 1) not the only interpretation and 2) if you interpret it that way you are also saying something about what people really are, which means that you shouldn't be afraid of it because you're implying that all souls revert to God and are completely absorbed by Him, therefore you would still be united with your family, just in a much less individualistic way. I think there's merit in the argument – it definitely could be like that – but nevertheless you can't know.

>>786580

>>786591

I have a few more questions that I've always mulled over;

1. I know people ask 'why does God let bad things happen' and around here they get laughed at, but since I have a disability, I ask that question seriously. If I do good things, it's because of him, but bad things are my inability to be perfect or someone else doing something evil, right? But in this case, I'm born with something, and a sibling born after me turned out fine. I just want to know why I was born autistic.

2. Is choosing the wrong denomination going to make God angry or upset? I always hear arguments but I'm always worried that there's no point in trying if I'm just going to make God angry anyway.

3. If one priest says something is sinful and another says that thing is not sinful, what am I to do? It always confuses me.

>>787312

>I just want to know why I was born autistic.

>John 9, As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him."

you've been given a hard road, but you're not dead so make the most of it. Try to see it as something to overcome; you can discipline yourself to look people in the eye, or not to stutter if you happen to do, to respond with confidence when you have none, and I would suggest keeping a journal for you to reflect upon social interactions and upon your own mental state. Often I find that my self-knowledge and my confidence in social situations is linked, because I've come to understand that the same fears are working on everyone, and it's just the normal people who cope better because they don't get the same sensory overload. But you can slowly introduce yourself to new stimuli and force yourself into new, better habits.

>Is choosing the wrong denomination going to make God angry or upset?

Basic answer is no, I've busted my head against this wall long enough to tell you that there's no point in having such fears. What is important is how you manifest Christ. The church is just a building, the apostles are only worth following because of their connection to Jesus, and church is only good because you need a family. After all Christ said that "those who do the works of My Father in Heaven, they are my brothers and sisters." You are just getting a support network that shares your values, find another parish if they are hurtful or if they are disinterested (both of which are major sins), but no need to bounce from church to church. What you really need is a sociable church; you won't like it at first, but they are the people who can help you grow in terms of socialization with no risk to yourself. (They aren't your boss, professors or in a power-relationship with you, so you can relax and practice skills you find yourself deficient in, in a risk-free environment)

>If one priest says something is sinful and another says that thing is not sinful, what am I to do?

Listen to both, look into your own heart. But if the one priest is more strict and you don't want to do as he says, incline your ear to him, and try to see it his way. Often we reject things because of our own will. As St. Gabriel of our Lady of Sorrows once said "I will try each day to break my will into pieces, I want to do God's Holy Will, not my own." Though I'm not Catholic myself, it's as good a pronouncement as any other on the subject; do what is unpleasant to you if it is not harmful you or anyone else, don't consider that you suffer anything at all in doing it. It is just discipline, and discipline in a desultory world is what will keep you going in good times as well as bad.

>>787312

Also, one last thing, do not despair when your first attempt at fixing yourself fails. Get serious about the idea of casting out demons and start casting them out from yourself; get angry at the demon and not at your failure to overcome him, knowing that all he has on his side is fear, self-loathing, and pride, and that all three are the lies of the devil. Fight like Patton; every time you are thrown back in retreat, reconnoiter the enemy's defenses, try to figure out whether they are pride, or fear, or self-loathing or how they have been combined in a layered defense. Then assemble your forces and kill. Grease your tank treads with demon guts as you advance. Make your bad habits afraid of which one is going to die next.