/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>774849

In today's edition of "Things We Already Know" …

Also, the Papal ban on Masons in the Church began in the early 1700s, long before Leo XIII's time.

>>774854

Some people does not know that

Some claim you can be both catholic and a mason in the same time

>>774849

Orthodoxy also has an enciclical against masons

Tbh, the only denom that DOESNT condemn masons are scottish presbyterians.

T. You guys have no Idea what Masonry even is.

I am Presbyterian although Masonry isn't some grand conspiracy. At least not at the general level where 99.9% of members are.

It is mostly charity work, god and bible promotion to youth and general good deeds. My Uncle was a Mason and when his house was burning, other members rushed in to save some possessions such as photos and family items. It's mostly stuff like that.

>>774892

>t. people who have no idea what masonry even is

Fixed for you.

>>774894

>it's just this place we go to avoid our wives, bro!

t. illuminati

>>774894

There is explicit theology behind Freemasonry contrary to the Christian faith, among which includes a sense of universalism, blood oaths, etc.

Sure, they do "good works", but plenty of charitable organizations are anathema to Christianity.

>>774891

Actually, all Mainline Protestants (the liberal, sodomite enabling ones) approve of Freemasonry.

That should tell you everything.

>>774859

>Some claim you can be both catholic and a mason

I'm gonna need an example of this.

>>774902

Here in Brazil those are very common

Where do you live?

>>774904

It had to be, just.

The church is really corrupt there. Damn it.

Knights of Columbus is a catholic alternative to freemasonry

>>775351

How are the KoC? There is a chapter in my parish and I was thinking of joining them. Are they legit as in devout Catholics or are they just as bad as the Freemasons?

>>775352

It's a bunch of (actual) boomers who hang out and do fundraising most of the time. Sometimes, they host BBQs or do fish-fries during Lent.

>>775351

it's more like the american catholic response to freemasonry, and I have an extraordinarily hard time thinking of my elderly relatives as seedy occultists, although I'm sure masonic lineages can say the same thing

>>775372

>it's more like the american catholic response to freemasonry

yeah my bad I thought that there was only one organisation, but there are others that go by different names

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Alliance_of_Catholic_Knights

>>775372

This.

I don't see, and don't think I'd ever see Freemasonry as a 'Satanic' cult as my family has been involved in it for literally hundreds of years. All of them still attended church weekly and some were senior members. I think those who call it 'satanic' have no idea what they're talking about and are simply outraged that Catholics cannot join it. Spreading lies to deface it's very existence. They truly do many good deeds and aren't just an 'old mans club'. They aren't some kind of cult either, they're not actively recruiting people like some other organisations.

>>775381

Continuing the quote in >>775393,

> and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil.

Hahaha, totally compatible with Christ’s own words, right? Haha

>>775395

Not only has he redacted all his claims, they were not true.

>>775396

The swearing of oaths is not biblical. Each of the first degrees of the Blue Lodge requires pronouncing the curse of death on oneself.

Matthew 5:34-37

>But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

In addition, freemasonry is universalist; Christ is NOT.

>"God is equally present with the pious Hindu in the temple, the Jew in the synagogue, the Mohammedan in the mosque, and the Christian in the church." Albert Mackey, Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Richmond: Macoy Publishing, 1966, 1:409-410.

Freemasonry’s fruit shownit to be nothing more than the Gentile branch of the religion of the Pharisees. It is wholly contrary to Christ’s words.

>>775400

I know he isn’t. My whole point is that freemasonry is completely and utterly incompatible with freemasonry, and there’s a reason that there is only one denomination that doesn’t condemn it.

Good ol’ boys? More like good ol’ goys, amirite?

Like how you all chose not to read my evidence that he is a con artist, was never a mason nor had any truth to his claims. Thats why he redacted them .

>>775407

Like how you ignored the swearing of oaths, universalism, and syncretism.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

/THREAD.

>>775459

Thank you, this discussion has gone on way longer than it needed to. I didn't say anything because I thought this would be resolved in a matter of minutes.

>>775460

It was resolved by the first reply.

>>775481

It was effectively resolved in the OP. OP wasn't a question, it was a statement… so why has this been going on for so long?

>>775485

I think OP just wanted to do a "look what I learned, guys!" thing. I don't know why the discussion continued. It's something every Catholic schoolboy knows.

The idea that freemasonry is anything other than a distributed, large, and aging men's fraternity is laughable. Further, implying that freemasonry is in any sense united, a single body, and not a collection of thousands of different lodges, grand lodges, grand orients, appendant bodies (such as the southern jurisdiction of scottish rite that the Alber Pike guy mentioned so often was a part of in the 1800s) is pretty lousy research. The pope has had and continues to have better avenues of research than whoever he tasked this stuff to.

A good example of this is the grand orient of France. They started allowing atheists in, because they had links to rosicrucians and other unsavory anti-religious types. They were promptly unrecognized by all other masonic bodies (a pretty hard thing to accomplish, as not all masonic bodies are even in contact with each other) and members of that body are now regarded as "clandestine" masons. This means that even discussing masonry with a member of that group entails immediate and permanent expulsion from every masonic body you are a part of, down to your local lodge.

>>775418

You have to swear an oath every time you testify in court, lawyers swear an oath to be seated on the bar, doctors swear the hippocratic oath. Guys who join college greek letter fraternities swear oaths. The contents of the oaths, even the masonic ones, are available online. There literally are no secrets in freemasonry anymore. Its all online. Google duncan's monitor and ritual. Its pretty thorough. Read as much as you want between the lines of that, but by and large its just larpy guys glorifying stonemasonry and geometry. You swear to keep things secret because they used to be persecuted by the catholics and church of england and didn't want to get thrown in prison for being part of a non-church club. Also, discussing religion (or the lack thereof) is the fastest way to get your ass thrown out of a lodge.

Most modern masons that have even read any of Pike's work think he's a strange dude who went out and pulled a lot of allegorical woowoo stuff from egyptian mythology and greek and whatnot, he's regarded as an important guy in the southern jurisdiction of USA but really just because of the time and effort he put into it.

>>775589

You can literally buy one on the internet and learn that its not. The masonic bible in almost all the continental united states is the 1611 authorized KJV, with an added concordance in the back with textual references to the scriptures and historical stuff used in the ritual. This is all context for the building of the temple solomon allegory that is used in the blue lodge, or vanilla freemasonry.

That being said, I'm sure you will find some spoopy mystery allegory in plenty of masonic publications, especially if you are rooting around in the southern jurisdiction, which was Albert Pike's stomping ground back in the day.

Washington's quote in your post is also correct. While the overwhelming majority of US Masons are Christian, I'm sure you will find some who are not. It is explicitly a non-religious organization, and as I've iterated before, discussion of religion inside the lodge gets you expelled. The only requirement everywhere except France is that you have to profess a belief in a deity of your choice, otherwise you are a flake and your word doesn't mean anything.

This is different in the York rite. The last 4 degrees of it (out of 10 I think, in contrast to the Scottish rite which has 33) require you to profess a belief in the God of the old testament and in his son Jesus Christ as the redeemer of mankind. This is made most evident in the ritual of the Masonic Knights Templar and the Red Cross of Constantine, which are the last degrees of the York Rite appendant body. Before the conspiracy nuts go wild, no, the Masonic Knights Templar has nothing to do with the crusader order disbanded and persecuted in 1307. This degree began in the early 1900s among York rite masons in the northeastern US.

Further evidence of the York rite being an explicitly Christian subset of speculative masonry is also present in the funeral service of the Masonic Knights Templar. The full text of this service is also available online.

Some excellent books on masonry that aren't tainted by conspiracy nuts and other habitual exaggerators include "Pilgrim's Path" by John J Robinson and "Born in Blood" by the same. He's a historian, a non-mason, and a non-catholic, and I feel he gave it all a pretty fair shake.

There's a lot to unpack on the subject, especially for people who don't really bother to learn about it outside of that book Pat Robertson put out back in the 80s or 90s. A lot of modern anti-mason stuff comes directly from that dude.