/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Also, is it true that music os considered sinful by muslims? Anybody know their reasoning?

>>771075

Different types of music appeal to different parts of a person, appetites, etc.

Imo it's dependant on how you personally interpret the music. For example, I've had instances where I was listening to Jazz instrumentals and someone walked in and asked why I was listening to porn music. We both heard the same music, but we both got a very different message from it.

So if siiiick trap beats make you think of obese black women twerking in the club, I would avoid listening to it as to not fall into temptation or sinful thoughts.

I watched a randon youtube vid about how the 4x4 beat of western music is demonic or something like that a few years ago but can't find it now. It was pretty funny. Talked about how how beats with half steps sounded like a beating heart and is therefore evil or too base and rousing to our animal nature or something lol.

Looking for the vid or similar I came across embed related which looks hilarious just because of how dated it is, surely 1.11 in is a meme or something already? see link for jump to time https://youtu.be/3l8WbkNXiTI?t=71

>>771077

>what are the Muslims take on it? Don't they ban it?

Hi, OP, former muslim here.

The playing of music is not banned, but the playing of music that is blasphemous and not respecting God is haram. It is haram because it is a waste of time. Better things can be done, like studying more scripture.

But music Praising God and exhaling His glory is not forbidden. We are called to write the quran in our hearts. The easiest way to do that is to have a rhythm that is natural and easy to mimic.

Remember all the songs you listen to on the radio? Hate how they replay the same song over and over and over and over and over and over again? It gets stuck in your head, but when you sing along to it you etch it into your heart.

For any current or former /pol/acks, how many can sing Erika , Funkerlied, Sieg Hiel Victoria, or the classic Horst-Wessel Lied? For the commie filth, how many can sing L'internationale (english, french, slav, etc) by heart?

The song that you sing helps etch not only the lyrics of the songs, but the ideas of the song into your brain. Philosophy of equality or retribution and so on and so forth.

When we commit to sing (or in the islamic case to recite with rhythm) it helps us etch the lessons of our God into our hearts. It helps us etch how God wants us to behave. God does this all the time for us Christians in the Bible.

The Psalms is literally the songs of the Church. See my

>embed related

It's an ancient hebrew recitation of Psalm 104, but it is given rhythm so it than etches the passage into not only her heart, but the heart of the band members and the audience.

The beautiful Aesthetics in the music gives us joy so we want to go out of our way to sing along with the music. Like in the Orthodoxy. Their singing of chants is literally prayers given to God our Almighty Father. Catholics (tridentine Latin Mass and norvus ordo) have the songs that are sung as well doing the exact same thing.

So TL;DR for your question, OP,

>Music CAN be degenerate

>Music CAN be blasphemous

>If Music is either and/or both

>Than said music should be avoided as at best it will only waste your time, at worst it will slowly corrupt you and make you forget God.

I hope this answers your Question, OP.

Ave Christus Rex

Non Nobis Domine

>>771075

Basically, you said it yourself. Music, in and of itself, is not sinful. I mean, look at Psalms. Those are songs and are meant to be sung.

>>771077

It varies. Different schools of Islam have different opinions on the matter. Some say all music is forbidden, some say voice + drums is acceptable, some say any instrument is fine. There's no consensus.

>>771093

(Cont)

And yes, Prots do the same as well. See Hilltop music or (my favorite) embed related

>>771089

That's made even funnier because a lot of thought on the subject has found that the human heart beat is more in 3/4 or 6/8 time than 4/4.

>>771093

This is nonsense. Actually all four founders of the four sunni madhabs (fiqh, schools of jurisprudence) all said that musical instruments are prohibited (except the daf). Modern people play music but that's just cause muslims pick and choose and are a fake nonsense religion anyways and most people like music so they go wah wah it's okay we don't know. When literally the founders of each of the four schools of jurispredence all say that music is banned, there's no real argument. To say that in islam that music is fine is nonsense. Correctly speaking, the majority of actual scholars, not some youtube idiot, will say that music is banned.

Richard Wagner is degenerate for example.

Yes

>>771312

Why?

>>771326

His name is literally Dick Wagner, you really expect some one named Dick to not be degenerate?

>>771326

Exaltation of the sexual passions, disorder. He was a key activist for the sexual revolution, especially with his work on "Tristan and Iseut".

His pieces attracted a lot of women and homosexuals. He does also think that it has corrupted Nietzsche's mind, and thus he did a pact with the devil to self-contract syphilis in order to be fully committed to the sexual revolution.

E. Michael Jones speaks about that quite well here.

Moreover, Wagner was some kind of ressurection of the Pagan Spirit, that's why Hitler loved it too…It's anti-christian in essence.

>>771328

Here is Wagner's piece of Tristan and Iseult…Listen the first 5 minutes, and then some random parts here and there (it's a long piece).

You can musically sense that this piece does NOT promote Order,family, Sexual Restrain, Control of the Appatite with the use of reason and the moral law…No, all the inverse. In some sense, it kind of represent this world now.

I hope you read "Tristan and Iseult" but if you didn't, it's about sexual liberation, it's a classical piece.

>>771331

Funny how I was reading a Tolstoy's piece on Wagner and he makes pretty much similar accusations, even if more as seeing his work as an insult to real art (which is still, in the author's words, the supreme form to transmit values linked to one's culture and religion).

>>771338

You are right. I am in the hope of sharing this video to EMJ about this video game ending credit…because I do think that he promotes the contrary to this wagner piece, that it promotes Order, Family , Procreation (you can see in the scene, the high point of the sound is where a heart appears in this ice mansions, and if you play the game, it's a very friendly Yeti couple who loves each other very much, and thus it's implied that the high point of this piece glorify procreation and family, even if it's obviously not explicit in the game).

Listening to this Japanese video game piece, I can feel being Ordered, being encouraged of being moral and humble, of being a true lover of a wife and to be fruitful and procreate. And I feel the logos of God in this song, I sense his glory.

I know it might be pretencious, and I might be biased becaue it happens to be one of my favorite video games, but just listen (and watch at the same time, they are co-dependant) and tell me what you think of it.

It's ENDING SPOILER for "The Legend Of Zelda : Twilight Princess" but if you do not care, just watch it.

>>771341

Interesting point! I find Japanese understanding of certain topics a bit lacking, but when they hit the mark they hit hard.

>>771342

Yes, they have some understanding of Logos, that's sure.

Here is from the beginning of the same game, you can see the meeting between Link and that girl is ordered, and it's not a music like the on with Wagner.

Here between 6:25-7:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idw0UNrM8LA&feature=youtu.be

The cutscene is a little short, so the music does not play in full but here is the full version in embded.

>>771347

Thanks! I like the use of the guitar as an opener…guitars always feel so relaxing when played like this. Also…kinda reminds me of Baroque music a bit; very nice!

>>771093

Welcome home, brother. May I ask what made you convert?

>>771075

Just my two-cents as a music enthusiast (not /mu/, and inb4 got blasted by /mu/tants) though. If everything is to glorify God, then music is no exception; but I do not think it is all hymns and psalms. For example: When you play and sing a song about love, not unfettered wild passions most mistake it as but true love in a wholesome and Godly way; it can be a ballad, pop, power pop, or anything. Your message and what is in the heart matters most.

About genres. Many can argue about this until the End Time come. But I think punk, metal, thrash, and their likes are ill-fits. The essence, the ethos of punk is a middle finger to all laws, becoming unfettered. Metal is the same, its ethos being anti-establishment and loud protest and evocation of wild emotions. Rock is a toss-up whether it veers into its cousin metal or softer cousin pop more.

As for instruments. Believe it or not, electric guitar can be very gentle and soothing with proper techniques and passions. Instruments are just tools so there should be no limits as for them.

>>771328

>>771331

That's really interesting because I remember reading about how supposedly, Wagner was an anti-semite.

Tell me, how does one reconcile Wagner's anti-semitism with Wagner's supposedly fighting for the sexual revolution? If Wagner's values really are what they appear to be then he should've been close friends with them, not enemies.

>>771328

>>771331

My previous post was poorly written but just in case it wasn't clear:

"them" refers to the Jews.

>>771312

What do you think of Wagner's Siegfriend Idyll? Wagner didn't approve of it because it wasn't an Opera with Opera being the culmination of all the arts into one but nonetheless, I quite like it. Please listen to it. I think, since it's not as developed as his Operas, it might not strive in those usual directions and thus, be acceptable/non-degenerate.

If I recall correctly, in the old days, people used to believe that the tritone interval was demonic due to how bad it sounded. Using that as a measuring stick then, Impressionism (especially Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun) and everything that came after is to be avoided.

Meanwhile, I believe Glenn Gould said once that all of Bach's music was dedicated to praising God.

>>771395

oh God ;-;

Just in case someone returns to this thread, I just want to clarify:

>>771328

This post is poorly written.

>He [E. Michael Jones] does also think that it [Tristan Und Isolde] has corrupted Nietzsche's mind, and thus he [Nietzsche] did a pact with the devil to self-contract syphillis in order to be fully committed to the sexual revolution.

And even then, it's still incorrect. If you watch the video this poster has posted, nobody made a contract with the devil. That's not what was said. What was said about Nietzsche is that he, and I quote, "in a sort of demonic consecration", went out and deliberately contracted syphilis in order to dedicate himself to the sexual revolution.