/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Anon, pray about it. ask God first. Make sure you are able to recognize his answers when he responds. If you don’t know how to talk to God yet, just get to a church , God will help to guide you from there (even if it might not feel like it for a bit).

Matthew 7:7-8

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

>>762609

If you want something of both, look at non-Roman Catholics, like Byzantines.

Refuting Roman Catholicism & Ecumenism: Palamas, Aquinas & Augustine - Jay Dyer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3hprH0oc_I

Orthodoxy, Rome, Vatican II & Ecumenical Collapse: Fr. Peter Heers & Jay Dyer (Half)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4I11gBag6k

EVERYDAY WE HAVE THIS THREAD

>>762609

You have some road to go until you stop treating faith like a product in the supermarket you're American aren't you

Start with the Bible

https://archive.radioaryan.com/TON/TON%20051017.mp3

0:30 to 6:00 of this is a clear refutation of the Roman Catholic idea of created grace.

>>762609

> implying either of those churches edify God

>>762727

That's exactly what Protestants do. Down to segmenting their very churches with a market mentality (i.e. Youth groups, Sunday school). And flooding the world with their niche bible versions and editions and other literature everywhere.

Unfortunately, this faggotry has affected Catholics and Orthodox somewhat now, so I can't only make fun of Protestants anymore.

>>762723

That's not a serious debate. Classical Theist is going to be releasing I believe a 4 part series on essence vs energy distinction, UDS, and palamism to conquer Jay Dyer once and for all. I'm not sure when it's coming out, I've been banned from Twitter so I'm not in contact with him anymore.

>>763456

Hah.. that's beautiful. I almost feel like I can quit posting. That sums up all of my thoughts at this board.

To be fair though, Protestants once had Keirkegaard (K's existentialism is quite individualistic itself though. He just wasn't as positive about it).

>>763477

It's a little insulting to have thos ecalled "quintessential protestantism". That's like saying that Vatican II is representative of the sum total of all Catholic thought and teachings.

>>763478

>It's a little insulting to have thos ecalled "quintessential protestantism". That's like saying that Vatican II is representative of the sum total of all Catholic thought and teachings.

It's actually easier to label Catholicism because it's so centralized and has dogma and a pope. And V2 unfortunately is what Catholicism is now. But it started before V2 with Newman's "evolving doctrine". That the ledge it jumped off of. V2 is merely the sympton. But because of Newman, Catholicism can be pretty much anything. None of the more traditional dogma need not be said or can be reinterpreted, because of "evolving doctrine".

It's trickier to meme Protestantism.. but in the abstract, the individual is the filter through which everything is viewed. Once you keep that in mind, it's pretty easy to ridicule.

>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

-Matthew 16:18

The seat of Peter has been a bulwark against heresy for two millennia. Submit to Rome, and you'll find the true faith.

>>763420

And just how do they not edify God?

>>762609

Orthodox.

>>763452

>to conquer Jay Dyer once and for all.

any day now goy

>>762624

People have done this and have gotten a wide array of different answers and converted to a hoast of different belief.

>>762723

Jay dyers videos are too long and don't have much substance. The guys kind of a meme

>>763478

>>763478

>>>763477

>That's like saying that Vatican II is representative of the sum total of all Catholic thought and teachings.

VII didn't change dogma, fren. Modernists are still heretics and will be seen as such once society at large returns to tradition.

>>763452

>Jay is getting BTFOd any day now

Nope, bad example of a debate, on the RCC's side that is since Nick isn't up to par but nah.

Watch his video with a licensed professional if you remain unconvinced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhOmqb95nM

>>762723

Jay Dyer is a meme and the based Dimond Bros already tore Orthodoxy to shreds, once again proving that Catholicism is the truth faith.

>>763772

>hurr durr Hesychasm is yoga!!!

>Orthodoxy torn to shreds

Please.

If he's such a meme why don't the audience of Dimond or Dimond themselves propose a debate with him?

Jay has already seen this video and quickly dismissed it as false interpretation of the Orthodox position in short, unsurprising since this video to approaches Orthodox dogma from a purely Catholic perspective and is a hotbed of misinformation and faulty presentation.

All this guy did is whine in the comments while addressing a few low hanging fruits.

We should set up a formal debate between the two parties instead of this indirect crap flinging contest.

>>763777

And he's right on that, you should check out some of Jay's stuff on his channel.

He has debated better (Feingold comes to mind for one) than the guy who made this 1 hour vid, they're just merely recycling common offenses against Orthodoxy and especially Orthodox practices, in that regard they're fairly basic and he has addressed pretty much everything brought up in that video already.

Guy has 200+ hours of theological content on his channel and writes essays and studies on the regular in the same topic, you really think Dimon said anything revolutionary in that hour long vid?

Regardless of that, when his schedule is less busy I would like to see him address Dimond proper, he is willing to go through the same arguments time and time again so I think more should reach out to him in regards to that.

To you tho, I can definitely only recommend Jay's vids if you felt convinced just by the video you posted.

>>763781

Jay denies the filioque despite the Bible clearly stating that the Holy Spirit comes from the Son. Do I really want to waste my time watching stuff from such a brainlet that he tries to defend a position scripture itself refutes? Regardless Orthodox apologetics are just annoying because they rely so heavily on the fact that since the Orthodox can't get their shit together and actually make theological decisions since the schism everything is vague so it's like trying to grab jelly when debating them. Orthodox concepts aren't clearly defined and that's by design so they can't be pinned down and forced to explain what their bullshit actually means.

>>763782

>Jay denies the filioque despite the Bible clearly stating that the Holy Spirit comes from the Son.

"the Bible clearly stating"

Is it real Protestant hours?

>Orthodox concepts aren't clearly defined and that's by design so they can't be pinned down and forced to explain what their bullshit actually means.

Or maybe it is that you're the one who cannot understand clearly defined concepts. I would be careful about calling others brainlet in that case.

>>763772

You are both memes having nothing to offer in modern theology except memefying the works of actual scholars and monks.

>>763782

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZVuB8Ej_Oc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3hprH0oc_I&t=1218s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFKpCuH5-nw

Just watch the videos fam, it will only take 2 hours from your life and you'll come out with a new understanding most likely.

I think you know how everyone from Prots to Romans to Orthodox can say and says "We're the true church the others are not! Our teachings are proven the Bible itself the others are not!" so just throwing it out there that the Bible clearly proves my position without any explanation beyond that is pointless.

Orthodox concepts are clearly defined, or are you implying Roman apologists argue against vague ideas instead of core concepts that led to the disagreement between the two churches?

Orthodox concepts, dogma and ideas are clearly defined and explained by proper apologists fam.

We both know better than that c'mon, give it a shot pal.

>>763783

>Is it real Protestant hours?

You can't really claim that the filioque is heresy when scripture clearly states the Holy Spirit comes from the Father AND the Son. "Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

>Or maybe it is that you're the one who cannot understand clearly defined concepts.

Bullshit. Every time you point out that Orthodox theology is heresy they shrink back, move the goalposts and try to claim "No, no no, that's not what we mean". The Dimonds effectively proved Orthodox theology is heresy, there is no defense against it other than putting up smokescreen and claiming that Palamas didn't mean what he clearly said.

>>763786

>Orthodox concepts, dogma and ideas are clearly defined and explained by proper apologists fam.

Then why do they try to move the goalposts every time it's pointed out these concepts are heretical?

The Orthodox is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, profiteer, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a heretic and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I’ve been found out.”

>>763789

I think you know how vague and lacking in meaning the sentence "Why are Orthodox apologists (just in general in regards to all issues) always move the goalsposts?" is, so do I even have to answer to something like that? I'll try I guess, I'll just say that you're probably not familiar with a whole lot of them.

>>763788

>You can't really claim that the filioque is heresy when scripture clearly states the Holy Spirit comes from the Father AND the Son.

"You can't really claim that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ when scripture clearly states that nothing corporeal can be saved. 'Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.' "

I have no intention to debate the filioque with you. However you'll have to give a better argument than "duh, the Bible obviously says this". There's a big missing step between "the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and the Son and is sent by the Son" and "the Holy Spirit hypostatically proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principle and one spiration, because the Son eternally shares in the Father's spirative power, and is therefore cause and principle of the Spirit". Whether you think the filioque is orthodox, heretical, or just a theologoumenon, it's lazy to think that the doctrinal definition is already obvious in the scriptures. If the "the Bible obviously says so" principle were true, there would not be any significant dissident groups against the Church, this applies for Protties, this applies for you, this applies for me as well.

>Bullshit. Every time you point out that Orthodox theology is heresy they shrink back, move the goalposts and try to claim "No, no no, that's not what we mean".

Or maybe you just don't understand what they mean. Has the idea passed through your mind? "Lord, I thank you for making me smarter than my enemies" is not a good prayer to make.

Of course, I am not absolving from sin my brothers in Christ, if they do behave as you described. But "moving the goalposts" is hardly a trait exclusive to the Orthodox in that case. If they are too tiring to debate with, feel free to simply redirect to scriptures, our common saints, etc. and let them answer to Christ instead of answering to you.

>>763772

no has addressed this video from orthodox side or they simply choose to ignore it, at best all i found was a old calendarist priest rambling for 20mins with ad hominem

>>763798

Did it occur to you that with 37K views it has, the vast majority of the Orthodox side who loves to debate even with people like them are completely unaware of the video's existance?

The video itself may have been ignored due it's low reach, the arguments it presents have been addressed by the Orthdox side time and time again however.

>>763798

Those videos are only known in the memesphere like /christian/ and /pol/. If someone wants to debate Catholic theology will probably go for some actual Catholic arguments instead of a meme group that is literally in schism with other Catholics. So yes, even those who might know about it tend to ignore it.

>>763821

Also, the Ecumenical Second Vatican Council is Most Holy, free from heresy. Sedes GTFO.

>>763772

There is so much wrong in that video.

The First 15 minutes are literally tin-foil hat Jehova's Witness / Jack Chick tier argument of "hurr durr Heyschasm looks like yoga so it's pagan"

Did they conveniently ignore the statues in the background of that Hindu man? You know what else prays in front of statues? Catholicism. Therefore Catholicism is pagan Idolatry. The Dimond's argument is that ignorant.

The Dimonds in the video make loads of claims that can be replied to.

>Essence greater than Energy

The Dimonds claim that since Essence "surpasses" Energy then that means there are two Gods. This is not so. The Essence surpasses the Energy in the same way that a cause surpasses an effect, for an effect needs a cause, not vice versa. In the same way we can say that the Father is "greater" than the Son and Spirit because he ontologically precedes them. This doesn't mean he is greater in a "real" sense, just that he precedes them as Essence does to Energy.

>Energies having a Beginning

The energies have a beginning only in the minds of us Humans who perceive it, but they eternally exist and existed before the Universe and time came to be. They are uncreated as they are God, but "begin to exist" in the sense that they manifest in our universe. The Holy Spirit was not created when he came down on Jesus at his baptism (Matthew 3:16) or when he came down on the disciples at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-5).

>Energies can Change

Similar to how the energies "begin" in time due to our perception, the energies "change" to our perception. A way to illustrate this is like seeing a man drowning, you run into the water, swim to him, grab him, take him to the beach, and then resuscitate him. All of these are changes in the act of saving, but the act itself, the saving, remains unchanged.

>>763849

Prepare for the storm.

As a Catholic is makes me absolutely livid when I see other Catholics attacking Orthodox Christians. We must cooperate to discern the truth, not fight like competing sects of Jews or pagans. There is no justification for animosity. Unless our disagreements can be seen in light of the Living God instead of our own egos and petty sense of being on the "right team" we are serving Satan as opposed to one another. Let the infidels squabble like women; as men we must hold ourselves to a higher standard.

>>763875

Based Papist.

Jesus was a negro woman who lived in Seattle.

>>763591

Nor does Joel Osteen change Protestant dogma, ie the Bible. He is widely refocused by most Protestant other than more ignorant Evangelicals. In fact, I’ve never met another Protestant who doesn’t think Osteen isn’t a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

>>763875

They have no such courtesy. They actively insult our Saints and our theology, our Church and our faithful. They do not forgive nor forget the sins of our predecessors, they do not accept our apologies. We should part from them because they do not want any part with us, ‘shake off the dust from your feet.’ (Matt 10:14)

>>763997

The Americans converts, or LARPers, fresh out of some protestant sect, are not representative of the real Orthodox world. And pleaso stop bumping such a blatant obvious bait thread.

>>764001

It's the Russian Orthodox who hold the most animosity for the Catholic Church, not LARPing American converts.

>>763997

>They have no such courtesy. They actively insult our Saints and our theology, our Church and our faithful. They do not forgive nor forget the sins of our predecessors, they do not accept our apologies. We should part from them because they do not want any part with us, ‘shake off the dust from your feet.’ (Matt 10:14)

We share a lot of saints. And those very shared saints would call some Catholics ones to be silly people. I just pointed out one in another thread (Catherine of Siena). I don't know how you guys take a woman seriously who says she wears the "invisible foreskin of Christ" as her wedding ring. I'll say what I said there: The desert fathers warned us that demons harass us. Especially those who are a threat. I wouldn't doubt that Catherine lived a good life (she went above and beyond it seems), but she was deceived to have been compelled to believe stupid things like this..and to virtually create a whole tradition of orgasmic nuns who are married to Christ. The erotic overtones about it all are silly.

I admire many Catholic saints actually, but the Catholic tendency to hail every supernatural thing as saintworthy is what I hold against some of their canonizations. Some the visions of Mary are are especially silly too (Medjugorje).

In other threads, I admire Catholics greatly for their missionary work. Orthodox are, frankly, a bit poor in some of this.. and God will punish some of those church jurisdictions for some of it's members only caring about having bake sales and cultural festivals or being "some home away from home". We're called to preach the Gospel. Not keep it from people. Greeks (atm) annoy me about this. I recently watched a Greek documentary about the Holy Land, and all the clerics could do there is talk about their Greek heritage and how Greece has had ties to the Holy Land for years. It was incredibly bizarre. Here he was standing outside the church of the Holy Sepulchre itself and he apparently just seems to want to promote Greece's presence. I doubt even the Catholics with their wing of the church see their duty in such ridiculous terms. But it really summed up to me how some people in Orthodoxy can be.

But that doesn't change my mind about what the desert fathers said. Or what saints in general were like for the first thousand years. They didn't do or talk about any of the weird things Catholic saints later talked about.

>>764113

The OCA started as a Russian Orthodox mission, and their autocephaly is only backed by the Russians and other Slavic churches (and Georgia).

No matter how you look at it, they're heavily influenced by the Russians.

That aside, OrthoLARPing is a huge problem in real life.

I posted it once already but a parishioner in my chapel who's in good standing with a Russian Orthodox monastery-church community told me about an American nun who was saying that all these converts are protestantizing the OCA.

Shit will hit the fan once all the missionary priests get replaced by these new converts.

Of course I haven't set a single toe on 'Murican soil, so what do I know, but it sounds like a plausible danger when you think that a lot of the former converts grew up with certain protestant values.

When you hear OrthoLARPers on here attacking Catholic doctrine that's also part of Orthodoxy, just to spit on Catholics, you know there's a problem.

>>764139

>protestantizing the OCA

The only "Protestantizing" I see in the OCA are actually the oldfags, who just want to remain some exotic form of Anglicanism or something (basically the same bad equivalent as the Catholic V2 trend). Those other so called Protestants turned Orthodox that are conservative are conservative strictly on orthodox matters and rely on canons and patristics to shut people up.

>>764139

>When you hear OrthoLARPers on here attacking Catholic doctrine that's also part of Orthodoxy, just to spit on Catholics, you know there's a problem.

Also, Catholics have a tendency to try to build camraderie and say "we're the same" by mining a quote or something. That's all well and good, but it's not Catholicism even by your own standards. Catholicism is what is normative in official dogma. Not a thing or two a saint said. You should take people a bit more seriously when challenged on a theological matter and not just assume sameness. Listen to them, please. I mean, I don't know what issue you have in mind, but I've seen this attempt at encouraging "sameness" before, but it's not that simple.

>>764139

When Slavs converted to the church they were pagan barbarians too, if Orthodoxy is going to be anything in the future, it can't just be an ethnic club at least not in America.

>>764132

>Some the visions of Mary are are especially silly too (Medjugorje).

Medjugorje isn't endorsed in any official capacity, and is held suspect by the Vatican, it's popular with EWTN types though.

>but the Catholic tendency to hail every supernatural thing as saintworthy is what I hold against some of their canonizations.

The Church does not canonize willy-nilly, there must be evidence of an actual miracle. If you want the Saints to quit acting on Earth, perhaps you should ask them to quit healing people.

>I don't know how you guys take a woman seriously who says she wears the "invisible foreskin of Christ" as her wedding ring.

Because the acceptance of Christ in the Temple is a major scriptural event and is only pooh-pooh'd in modern times because they are squeamish. There is a clear supernatural line of Christ appearing to us as as He was as a child, I suspect it is to confirm that He was True Man in addition to True God.

> but she was deceived to have been compelled to believe stupid things like this..and to virtually create a whole tradition of orgasmic nuns who are married to Christ.

Again, which comes from your perspective, not hers. Every hint of Heaven, and I mean real Heaven, implies that it is a higher pleasure than anything man knows, it is a spiritual ecstasy that is pure and more or less unknown on Earth.

>>764199

This is why I'll continue to ridicule then. It nothing to do with a scriptural event (which is just circumsion and not sexual at all or has anything to do with marriage or rings in the history of ever). Nor is it modern squeamishness. It's actually much simpler than that: Sometimes you just have to a call stupid woman for what she is. And I'm pretty sure most people would say I'm far from "modern" in saying this. You Catholics failed at this simple task. You indulge silly women too much.

Despite the admirable missionary efforts, I suggest not to let newcomers know about it as long as possible. You destroy people's faith with your superstitions and innovations eventually… or invite ridicule from the world at large.

Also, on that last note, don't feel singled out. It's also why I despise Pentecostals and charismatics a lot. They're not filled with the Holy Spirit. It's demons. And the only purpose is TURN the world away from the real Christ.. by associating his Church with sheer madness. Only demons benefit from this.

>>764206

>(which is just circumsion and not sexual at all or has anything to do with marriage or rings in the history of ever)

If it's not sexual at all, why do you lambast St. Catherine for her vision?

>Sometimes you just have to a call stupid woman for what she is.

The only foolish one here seems to be you. St. Catherine seems to be a Saint by every real metric.

>You indulge silly women too much.

Would you lambast even God for making Mary the perfect Creation?

>>764207

You talk a big game but there's nothing Christian about mocking women simply because they're women.

>>764213

>You talk a big game but there's nothing Christian about mocking women simply because they're women.

It's not a big game. Stop making it complicated. If a woman tells you she has the invisible foreskin of Christ on her finger, first the Spirit of God should make you angry, and then your best option is to call her stupid. Even a child could do this. No need to philosophize about it.

Also, speaking of the charismatic thing, since Catholics are opening to charismatics as well, this is what you are in danger from (PLEASE Oh God please just watch a little). You desire for extra revelation and miracles will open you to more evil. Stop it and get out already. The scourge has already begun. If you have a traditional bone at all and love for the Church that Christ built.. then you see it yourself. And you're being obstinate and struggling. And I'm probably not helping by being so crass. But I say all of this with care, believe me.

>>764217

>first the Spirit of God should make you angry

Enough of this, are you even Orthodox? Protestants talk like this.

>>764220

>Enough of this, are you even Orthodox? Protestants talk like this.

If that's all you got from this, you're more lost than I thought. I'm talking about the real Spirit of God. The one that hates blasphemies. The one you were supposed to get from the Lord to guide you into all truth. The one who sets off alarms when he's around them (as far as Protestants go, if you feel a frightening sense of doom around their "charismatic" services and need to flee, that's the Spirit of God alerting you too. Listen to him. And those false spirits of those charismatics are in your own churches now. Don't accuse me of being a Protestant when your whole church literally committed this exact idiocy. Are you incapable of any self-reflection?).

>>762609

Neither. They worship and kiss graven images.

>>764294

>Neither. They worship and kiss graven images.

We don't worship them. They're specifically called "windows" into heaven and merely respect what's represented. While worshipping the true Christ.

Secondly, not even the Mosaic law totally applies the way it used to anyways. The councils, after a bitter fight with iconoclasts like yourself, declared that icons are permitted because Christ himself is the Icon of the Father. Images of God DO exist in scripture - and he is Christ. Only a Jew or Muslim holds to the strict view because they're retards who don't even believe in Christ, and therefore, don't have God to begin with. You Protestants, on the other hand, have no excuse and put yourselves in the company of Muhammad due to your own word obsessed zealousness. You should just fill up the full extent of your heresy and be a full Muslim. It'd make no difference really.

Just to add another thing about Catholic Saints (same anon as above.. my IP changed).. This is nothing new. Don't think it's just some "8chan Protestant pretending to be Orthodox" saying this. The Philokalia states: "Do not desire to see the Angels or Powers or Christ, that you may not lose your mind from accepting a wolf instead of a shepherd and worshipping our adversaries, the demons" (a real saint.. St Neilos of Sinai, 5th century).

15th Century, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, when seeing the Catholic book "Imitation of Christ" in his daughter's hands, tore it from her and said "Stop playing romance with God." kek

>>764324

Ahem. Not sure how I left that "15th century" bit. It was from something else I was going to mention. St. Brianchaninov was 19th century.

>>764174

>When Slavs converted to the church they were pagan barbarians too

I understand that you can't stay an ethnic club, which isn't the problem.

The problem was, as I understood, the huge influx of protestants.

These pagan barbarians were converted on the note that their gods didn't exist at all or were demonic spirits at best.

Protestants on the other hand start from a similar basis, the Gospel.

Not everything they believed as a protestant was wrong, but realizing what was can be a struggle.

>>764139

>That aside, OrthoLARPing is a huge problem in real life.

>Of course I haven't set a single toe on 'Murican soil, so what do I know

OrthoLARPing simply a meme, a meme that has little reality outside of the internet. In the US the majority of the protestant converts, or even converts from other denominations and faiths tend to be quite zealous about Orthodoxy. The danger to Orthodoxy, at least here in the US, is not from protestants entering into Orthodoxy, but from the liberal influence that has crept into the hearts of the cradle "cultural orthodox", primarily those within the US Greek Orthodox Church.

>>763781

go away jay. noones going to pay for your videos

>>764442

>OrthoLARPing simply a meme, a meme that has little reality outside of the internet. In the US the majority of the protestant converts, or even converts from other denominations and faiths tend to be quite zealous about Orthodoxy. The danger to Orthodoxy, at least here in the US, is not from protestants entering into Orthodoxy, but from the liberal influence that has crept into the hearts of the cradle "cultural orthodox", primarily those within the US Greek Orthodox Church.

People who say it tend to also write off Orthodoxy as some oddity. It probably says more about them. Maybe they live in a small town and it actually is, unfortunately, pretty rare. I have 5 or 6 churches in my city, and a GO monastery outside the city.. and then a few Nestorian or Coptic sects if you include them on top of that (granted that's still nothing. I live in a historically Catholic city with tons of Catholic churches. But still, Orthodox churches do exist in America. It's not that odd).

Protestant converts are precisely what God is going to use to revitalize the church. I see the humor and beauty of it now. They love the Bible, but lacked completeness or the proper mind of the church. Both together are beautiful. All of the church fathers urged scripture reading as well (this meme that people couldn't read is a tragedy from both Catholics and Luther alike (Luther for assuming he was the first). Even St. Chrysostom in the 300s wanted his parish to read. This is the 300s. I thought people were supposed to be drooling idiots, living in "darkness"?

"Listen, I entreat you, all that are careful for this life, and procure books that will be medicines for the soul…get at least the New Testament, the Apostolic Epistles, the Acts, the Gospels, for your constant teachers. If grief befalls you, dive into them as into a chest of medicines; take from there comfort for your trouble, be it loss, or death, or bereavement of relations; or rather do not merely dive into them but take them wholly to yourself, keeping them in your mind." (Hom. IX On Colossians)

"Let us make them [your children] from the earliest age apply themselves to the reading of the Scriptures…..Study not to make him an orator, but train him up to be a Christian philosopher. [..] Do not imagine that the monk alone stands in need of these lessons from Scripture. Of all others, the children just about to enter into the world especially need them." (Hom. XXI Ephesians)

This is what a truly Catholic and Orthodox culture should look like. Byzantium. A kingdom of Christians, with children raised up on scripture, and the gospel actively preached to the ignorant in the so called barbarian lands. Not something tied to just regional peculiarity.

>>762751

>radioaryan

>>763772

Newer take

>>764562

Was just gonna post this

>>764488

>I see the humor and beauty of it now. They love the Bible, but lacked completeness or the proper mind of the church. Both together are beautiful

I don't, they just get to defend the Eucharist but still attack everything Catholic anyway. It has the veneer of authenticity, but they still get to keep repeating the same anti-Catholic schlock while ascending beyond their Protestant peers.

>(this meme that people couldn't read is a tragedy from both Catholics and Luther alike

one we never encouraged, or one anyone could ever prove seeing that the printing press didn't exist.

>>764285

>The one that hates blasphemies.

I've got the one that hates affectation. Have some shame.

>do you feel frightening sense of doom

No? You can point out what's wrong with the movement without pretending you're a prophet.

>>764619

sedes are worse than orthodox when it comes to mental gymnastics

>>764622

The Dimond Bros are the greatest theological minds of modern times.

>>764623

Fr. Ripperger was right, where are the great theologians of our time? It isn't the Dimonds or Jay Dyer. Are schismatics really all we got?

>>764615

>No? You can point out what's wrong with the movement without pretending you're a prophet.

It's not "prophecy". That you even state it in such a way tells me you don't even know what you're talking about. It's discernment. The very gift St. Paul urged us all to pray for above others. Prophecy isn't available to just anyone, but discernment is. And I'm not about to try explaining spiritual alarm in some kind of mechanistic way you Catholics would want. You just know it, and you flee. For example, I got invited to a church once without knowing it was one of these.. and when I did, I literally got out and walked miles home (since I ditched the ride that brought me here). Even that pain and inconvenience was a beautiful gush of fresh air and highly endurable than spending even one more second in such a place. I couldn't explain any details to you other than a sense of "doom".. like I said.

And just because these charismatic services are Catholic now didn't magically make them any less troubling than when they were Pentecostal. Just like if I started noticing Santeria or Voodoo practices (which some Catholics actually do in my neck in of the woods.. and that makes me flee as well).

>>764615

>I've got the one that hates affectation. Have some shame.

I'd rather glorify the Eternal God than be enamoured like some troubled mystic, who focused on his genitals. No, I'm not going to have any shame about this.

>>764623

Their theology is solid, it's just cringy when they use freeze frames of someone's contorted face mid word to prove demonic possession.

Actually, I would add that if you don't accept a sense of spiritual alarm, then you should be cautious just for mundane reasons around the charismatics. They rely on a lot of gimmicks to entrance people. Watch out for it. They'll manipulate music tempos and get everyone worked up, then gradually dim lights and start playing calm music.. and it just makes people even more susceptible to what's coming next. Watch for it… (or don't go at all really).

>>764625

"The one who prays is a theologian; the one who is a theologian, prays." With all due respect, I strongly doubt that Jay Dyer or the Dimonds have the most solid spiritual life. They certainly are lacking in humility and charity.

If you want to find modern theologians, begin with yourself. Remain in prayer, in humility, in fasting, in charity, in almsgiving, in recurrent reception of the Eucharist, study the Fathers prayerfully, and the way to theology will open itself for you.

>>764638

Amen. One can only talk about God by meeting with him.

Dyer is an interesting fellow, but I don't think he would claim to be a theologian anyways. He's an academic and very.. Catholic… actually in his approach. But this makes him very skillful. He knows about things of the Western world that Orthodox have sadly neglected to address enough (or simply didn't care and see the implications).

>>764638

>With all due respect, I strongly doubt that Jay Dyer or the Dimonds have the most solid spiritual life

Fair point. I sometimes wonder what is supposed to be the gain of all this time spent on youtube apologetics. Defending the faith is great, but when we stand before Christ at judgement will he really be that concerned with how well you defended theology online? If we do not act with charity and continue to pray and remain faithful to God by acting in the way Christ taught us then we are lost. It doesn't matter how many atheists we owned online. If you are a man of faith and truly believe for a fact that heaven and hell exist and you know that every action you take on Earth will be used to judge your worthiness to enter the Kingdom then I fail to see how you could waste your time on this stuff.

Can't people these days write? why use freaking youtube to tie people into google hivemindnet? also, 99.9% of youtube "discussion" or whatever rarely utilize the benefits of video form of media (visualization) but merely just talk. for that, you could just have podcast and write down the transcript. i am not going to "watch" 2 hrs of "talk" and waste my time. write it down.

inb4 "they have podcast"

also, wth is this vaticanocatholico.com yt? that channel is just full of boomer tier bs clickbait, and these people shit on boomer proddies?

>>765566

>also, wth is this vaticanocatholico.com yt? that channel is just full of boomer tier bs clickbait

Try watching the actual videos. The Dimond Bros are very knowledgeable and their theology is spot on.

>>764562

they mentioned that this was part of a longer video in the works

>>764631

Are you ID-hopping?

>That you even state it in such a way tells me you don't even know what you're talking about. It's discernment.

Discernment is understanding the Will of God, what that anon - you? - are doing is pure presumption.

>You just know it, and you flee.

Funny, the Orthodox have a term for that, "Prelest".

>I'd rather glorify the Eternal God than be enamoured like some troubled mystic, who focused on his genitals

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Prepuce

You condemn a huge swathe of Ancient Christendom.