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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 1fc3f0bc2aa3868⋯.jpg (19.79 KB, 300x343, 300:343, sermon.jpg)

29d63b  No.761689

Reading the Sermon on the Mount Jesus condemns just loving thy friends as quid pro quo relationships/ beneficial/ self serving companionship and contracts are done even by the publicans. Thus love thine enemy, for to do without the expectation of any benefit - even of detriment - truly shows that it is the act itself that is of value. Yet I have a problem, following the Christian ethic, one lives with every thought and action being of consequence, with a return on the investment of good or bad behaviour being in the next life/ future. Doesn't this make publicans of the moralist? Doesn't one have to act without a view to consequence for it to be truly righteous? How does one act without a view to reward and punishment if one is aware that each action and intention IS judged? How do you not turn yourself into a spiritual publican?

Thank you in advance.

29d63b  No.761692

>>761689

An obvious solution is to just belive that there is no consequence thus no divine reward, punishment or justice and to do it anyway. But that would be to follow Jesus without belif in his promise which is contradictory. how.jpeg


29d63b  No.761693

>>761689

Tl;dr

How does one act without an eye to consequence (as preached by Jesus - Sermon on the mount) when through faith one holds that every thought and action has the greatest consequence?


c05779  No.761696

>>761689

We do not pay a debt to God when we do good works. We do not indebt ourselves when we sin. The notion of "reward" and "punishment" is only one way to explain the ultimately mysterious final judgement, and in a sense it is not literally a "reward" (because the relationship of the Church with God is like that of a wife with her husband, therefore a good outcome is the result of a loving and self-sacrificial relationship, not of fulfilling a list of missions to do) nor is it literally a "punishment" (because punishment is for purification and repentance, yet those who are punished are punished eternally). Even the idea of "God punishes us" loses its stability in the Old Testament, where God says several times, especially in the prophets, that Him punishing Israel, and Israel punishing itself, are one and the same thing.

With that said, let me go back to the beginning of my point - it is not a matter of "payment" or "investment", but "relationship". We are not motivated by the incoming reward or punishment but by our love for God and His immense love for us. The "reward" or "punishment" is merely the logical consequence of going down one path or the other, like how a child who puts his hand on a stove will logically burn himself.

Incidentally, what you are talking about is a big problem of Islam - they do literally think of it as a "point" system, or as jobs to fulfill, or as debts to pay.


29d63b  No.761698

>>761696

Thank you very much for the answer I'll think on it, I have ingraned the Islamic "point system" since childhood so this is all new. I don't quite understand how a/that relationship works/ what it actualy means but I'll keep reading.

Do you know of any resources, books etc that can explicate on this more? Thank you again.


026968  No.761742

>>761689

>Doesn't this make publicans of the moralist?

No. Evil is immoral, regardless of whether you care about the consequences or not.

>Doesn't one have to act without a view to consequence for it to be truly righteous?

Kind of. One should act based on love for God (which itself means not caring about the worldly or other-worldly consequence of the action).

>>761693

>How does one act without an eye to consequence (as preached by Jesus - Sermon on the mount) when through faith one holds that every thought and action has the greatest consequence?

Through love for God. What matters is that you do what is right before God for the sake of your love of God, not what happens to you.

>>761698

>Do you know of any resources, books etc that can explicate on this more?

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3027.htm

The first few questions of the Prima Secundæ Partis may also help.


c05779  No.761791

>>761698

I mean, the Bible is a great starting point. Every book of it is written by the people of God, testifying to its experience of God, for the people of God. So the notion of religion as a "relationship" rather than a "contract" is there in every book. Read the Gospels, read the epistles of the apostles, read the Law, read the prophets… The book in which this is most intensely expressed is the Song of Songs.




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