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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: cf8e022d0420c9b⋯.jpg (538.05 KB, 1125x750, 3:2, uec_gr_athos_great_lavra_c….jpg)

a5483a  No.752536

The first seven ecumenical councils were invoked by the emperor of Rome, their statutes decided upon by the bishops of the Christian world. Thus, I hope we can agree that the first seven ecumenical councils were the product of conciliarity. The organization and conduct of these councils is the groundwork for the operation of present Eastern Orthodoxy. We resent the efforts of any single bishop to impose his will upon the whole faith (as we see with our righteous opposition to the actions of the EP with regard to Ukraine). This, the contrast to conciliarity, is called ultramontanism.

The Great Schism highlights not only differences between "Greek East" and "Latin West" but also between conciliarity and ultramontanism, terms that would only really be used later in Roman Catholic history.

Personally, I wonder how anyone can ustify the ultramontanist position in light of the conduct of the first seven ecumenical councils, clearly conciliar efforts. It is this precise reason that many people, including myself, have decided to become Orthodox. I think it is a tragedy that the Gallicans and other advocates of conciliar ecclesiology lost out to the ultramontanists, the latter of which eventually went on to give us Vaticans I and II, shattering the Roman Catholic world.

tl;dr: In light of the ecumenical councils, how can one reject the fact that conciliarity is the proper fashion in which matters of Christian doctrine should be decided? How can you expect a conciliarist, such as myself, to accept as dogma those things (all Roman Catholic dogmas after the 7th council) which were not debated and accepted in council?

4642a6  No.752545

I'm not going to satisfy your vain curiosity.


a5483a  No.752562

>>752545

I don't see why this is vain. I literally can't understand it.


999489  No.752566

From my experience and in discussion with both Roman and Eastern Orthodox Priests, pretty much all the non-theological (which isn't dogma anyway, since Aquinas and Bonaventure are still debated and the Roman Church doesn't take a formal theological stance or mandate), doctrinal differences are matters of semantics. It's not that different from how the other Patriarchal, autocephalous Orthodox Churches have theological disagreements between them, and I've had Roman, Eastern Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox priests all tell me that theology, especially, is not doctrine and people frequently make the mistake of thinking that if you're theology doesn't match theirs you're a heretic.

In terms of things like papal infallibility, the Pope can only speak ex cathedra on matters that have already been discussed and debated within the Roman Church, and he, as Patriarch, is giving the final word. That's why the Melkite Patriarch, during Vatican I, refused so sign the council agreements until it was added that respect for the rights and authorities of all other Patriarchs be maintained.


8ab6ea  No.752569

>>752566

>doctrinal differences are matters of semantics

>theology is not doctrine

No priest has ever told you that, don't lie.


a5483a  No.752589

>>752566

I actually have no particular issue with any of the theology and I'm in no place to comment on any of it, as it's largely arcane to me. My problem is that Catholic innovations for them are dogma, but were not canonized in ecumenical council.

I hope we can perhaps settle these theological questions in a true, non-compulsory ecumenical council so we're all on the same page.


67542d  No.752710

As odd as Francis is sometimes, a Pope like him is the first real opportunity discuss things with. Not sure there will be another like him. I don't think there's been another Pope who likes to just call himself the "Bishop of Rome".




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