[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / cafechan / doomer / leftpol / magali / marx / tingles / vg / wmafsex ]

/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Email
Comment *
File
Password (Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 16 MB.
Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000.
You may upload 5 per post.


The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: a5f987c152c82e0⋯.jpg (11.52 KB, 480x360, 4:3, hqdefault.jpg)

92bfdd  No.752049

I'm just watching these conversations with Fr. Hesse and he was determined that the Novus Ordo is an illicit, schismatic mass and that Vatican II was a heretical, blaspheming council. Is he right?

b59bd0  No.752075

>>752049

Isn't his position also saying that Vatican II, since it never had the intention to promulgate dogma, does not even fulfill the conditions to be an ecumenical council?

This sounds quite reasonable, although the same could probably be said about I.Lyon and Vienne.


58e598  No.752077

>>752049

Yes, he is right. Vat II is heresy and it's fruits can been seen in the eyes of rape victims of the sodomite clergy it enables.


f994f3  No.752097

>>752049

Depends on how you understand Quo Primum. Hesse argued that pope st. Pius V forbade use of any other missal other than Quo Primum and that all other popes up until Paul VI found that prohibition binding.


ba5003  No.752939

>>752049

He's wrong. Where is the Infaillible definition for an Ecumenical Council to be one?

pro tip :

There's none. Hence, one can made up 'conditions'' for a council to be defined ecumenical, which is what Father Hesse did, and yes, in his own logic, Vatican II does not fulfill theses conditions and thus isn't ecumenical or not binding. Once again, in his own logic, he's right.

But we're Roman Catholics, not Prots, things dont' go by our logic but by the authority of the Teaching Church.

Novus Ordo Missae is valid, catholic and licit. I've yet to hear solid arguments about how it is not.

>written by protestants

Wrong. Protestant pastor were indeed invited to the Council ( Just like in Council of Trent btw), and they were part of an observing comission, and had no say, no decision in any part of the Council whatsoever. Of course, you'll find articles saying otherwise but heh

>facing the people to feel more protestant and welcoming

Not really. The core of the facing people thing isn't found in Vatican II, but before it, in a group of clerics, liturgists and theologians that wanted a 'purer' liturgy, closer to the Antiquity era one. It was a time where documentation and all that about First Christians ways of worshipping was going strong and encouraged by Pope Pius XII.

To get the mindset of theses peoples, imagine the Renaissance. A view of Antiquity that is pure, classic and better. That's what they wanted in the liturgical reform. It has been shown that some of the masses were indeed celebrated facing the people during First Christians era, but it wasn't as big as these people thought it was, thus creating a bit of a …. out of place practise.

This return to Antiquity is really the core of the liturgical reform, even outside of Vatican II.

Change of Roman canon? Same, all inspired by Antiquity and other christian traditions.

>But kneeling and other liturgical gestures that disapperead? that's just pandering to prots denying the real presence

Nah, if you read The Rhine Flows into the Tiber: A History of Vatican II, written by a priest that was there ( it's recommended as well by FSSPX than catholics agreeing with the Pope etc btw), you easily see that all this removal was there to suit, not protestants, but non Europeans like Philipino and Asians. Kneeling, bowing head, kissing stuff has not the same meaning there than it does here, and it feels foreign for them to do so, thus the liturgy should be 'suited' for every type of Catholics, and not only Europeans who grew up with the Catholic liturgy for centuries. It's a mindset that I personally don't agree with, but I can see how a 60s Bishop could think it was a good idea.


ba5003  No.752942

>>752097

But the argument fall flat when you realize that Saint Pius V was also the one that promulgated 'Quod a nobis', using the same vocabulary as for 'Quo Primum',

'if one, priest bishops cardinal etc etc changes this, he gets the anger of Saint Peter and Saint Paul' etc.

Saint Pius X completely prohibited the use of this breviary, and imposed a new one. Not a reform, not a correction, a whole new one. Was he wrong? No one ever argued that Quod a nobis was binding every Pope to go by that breviary.

No one understood Quo Primum as saying 'No changes, no reforms, only this missal for the rest of time' until Saint Paul VI did his own, because reforms of the missal happened anyway before that.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Cancer][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / cafechan / doomer / leftpol / magali / marx / tingles / vg / wmafsex ]