/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I don't read the physical first edition 1611 kjv so I can't be influenced by a symbol referencing Francis Bacon, as if that matters

Also

>made up doctrines

>Prefacing the non-canonical books as not God's word

>>749834

prots don't reconcile with anything, they just do whatever they feel like

>>749911

>Become the most successful country in the history of the world

successful by who's standards? the us punishes people for not making cakes for faggot weddings and funds mass-abortion

>but muh ipads!!!

>>749834

This thread is disingenuous

>first point

Luther didn’t remove the deuterocanon because they disagreed with his doctrine, he removed them because they aren’t in the Hebrew original. Now, the Dead Sea scrolls do prove Hebrew originals for many books in the deuterocanon, but that wasn’t known at the time. As for the New Testament books, Luther considered not including them but decided they belonged. That doesn’t prove anything, the church also debated whether James should be included in the canon

>Second point

Total lie. The Secret Teaching of All Ages is a new-age/occult book. In addition to this, it also claims

>Jesus’s doctrine is copied from Hermes

>Simon Magus was the greatest disciple and the stories of him in the NT is false propaganda

>Christianity is based on old mystery cults

>All religions are connected, and the chair of Saint Peter has the 12 tasks of Hercules and the shahada of Islam carved on it

It’s not true. It’s a false book of false doctrine, and to cite it to own the protestants is to bear false witness

>>749955

Apples to apples

Which comparable country has a better religious liberty situation?

>>749911

>most sucessful country

Economic success isn't the best indication of how christian a country is. Your country was created by deists and agnostics, and there's nothing that will change this fact

>unmatched missionary efforts

Bitch, ever heard of Portugal and Spain? THESE were the missionary states, not secular jewmerica lmao

>>750033

>state colonialism

>preaching the gospel

Pick one

>>750039

>colonialism is bad

Only an American could say this.

Ironically they do the same but call it a different name.

>>750039

Dude, you know how latin america and mexico was converted? Through colonialism. my Country, Brazil was a pagan place in which people comitted caniballism, until the portuguese and the jesuits came, and preached the gospel. Sure, latin america may not be as christian now, especially mexico, but that is because of revolutionary liberalism ( hmm rings a bell, america? ) and positivism ( Brazil ) and these republics undermined the church and removed all of it's influence in the population.

>>750077

>Brazil was a pagan place in which people comitted caniballism, until the portuguese and the jesuits came, and preached the gospel.

And now that the Portuguese left evangelicals are a winnie the pooh plague there. Even your new president is a winnie the pooh evangelical (though I'd prefer him everyday to that literal commie).

Quando precisares de ajuda para queimar as favelas e expulsar os hereges chama nos filho.

>>750081

ikr. A lot of catholics here are so liberal, too, it's sad.

Valeu pai!

>>750081

>Even your new president is a winnie the pooh evangelical

He isn't though, his wife is, I don't know which brand.

But mostly Catholicism out here is like and antiquated practice, mostly for traditional seniority, the prots flavors are very varied though, going from traditional morals, to libertarians with commie influence, to pure heresy.

>>750121

I just saw him celebrating his victory in the elections with evangelical dudes, so I assumed he was one or a sympathiser.

>>750104

Infelizmente merda da teologia da libertação.

Eu descobri isso quando fiz o erro de comprar uma Bíblia da Paulus. Mesmo em português europeu essa merda é literalmente marxista.

>>750127

Nao somente isso, mas a maioria não sabe sobre pecados importantes, como contracepção, sexo antes do casamento, casamento pós-divorcio, feminismo e liberação sexual, gender roles, etc

>>750134

Alias, quando digo gender roles, não digo que é pecado, mas digo que a maioria não sabe que gender roles são o ideal pra familia catolica, assim como é evitar o aborto, contracepção, etc

>>750134

>mas a maioria não sabe sobre pecados importantes, como contracepção, sexo antes do casamento, casamento pós-divorcio, feminismo e liberação sexual, gender roles, etc

É a mesma coisa aqui, só que pára no feminismo fora dos círculos "intelectuais" universitários.

>>750138

Sim vejo muita desta merda aqui. O meu padre até contou na homilia que pôs uma gaja a ler aquela passagem de as mulheres obdecerem aos homens e à gaja ficou toda triggered lol.

>>750142

>>750142

hahahaha é disto que estou falando. Feminismo infiltrou completamente nossas sociedades, eu rezo muito pela minha irmã pequena, que ela não seja corrompida. É muito triste ver o país da Santa fé ser atingida pelo modernismo, que nem todos os outros..

>>750152

Acho que aqui é pior. Só as pessoas com mais de 70 anos vão à missa.

O resto dos adultos que vão, além de não querem saber do que a igreja ensina como tu dizes bem concordam com o divórcio e essas merdas só lá vão porque é o encontro comunitário.

Até o clero aqui é mau. Os nossos bispos são quase todos da "ala" liberal da igreja, foi por um triz que os divorciados iam receber a Santa Eucaristia. Graças ao nosso Patriarca de Lisboa que votou contra. Meu Deus durante uma semana ele foi chingado pela televisão e os restantes bispos por dizer que os que se casaram de novo não podiam ter sexo se quisessem ir a comunhão. Agora ele é visto como um "ultra conservador" por dizer que na doutrina não se toca.

Custa acreditar que isto foi o país de Fátima. Até o bispo de Fátima é dessa laia.

Para não falar que não temos padres quase nenhuns. Na minha paróquia são missionários indianos que dão a missa.

Ao menos são bons tipos, melhores que alguns padre europeus que já vi.

>>750121

>I don't know which brand

She's a Pentecostal from Malafaia's Church, Vitória em Cristo, which is associated with Assembleia de Deus.

>>749834

>Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon

No, because their authorship were disputed since the second century, so he place them as the last books of the NT, which hasn't been moved to this day even in Catholic bibles.

>Hebrews

>Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide)

Lol

More to the point, the protestant canon was more influenced by Calvin than Luther, who had a much higher view of scripture.

>>749903

Says the sect who relies more on ethos than logos regarding mostly everything.

>>749834

>The Secret Teachings of All Ages

Becoming an occultist to own the prots

>>749834

How does your denomination deal with the fact that homosexuality runs rampant through the priesthood?

>>750155

Spic

>>749911

>muh freedumbz

>>749834

You conveniently left out the part where Luther was following the opinion of some of the Church Fathers.

Also it's not like any of the bibles most used in the West are from sources translated by Catholics.

>>750308

Whta opinion lol?

There wasn't even a Canon back then and some father never read Hebrews for example because it was only popular in the East and not in the West. And dig you are accepting a supposed opinion of the Church Fathers why not accepting the rest as well?

Besides even if your argument was true it wouldn't explain why you guys would join the Jews rejecting macabees, Tobit, Wisdom etc.

>>750318

>and if you are accepting

>>750308

One more thing. Revelation wasn't rejected by any church father. We have the word of one of St. John's disciples on that.

The only "church father" who rejected it was Eusebius because guess what, he was an Arian and revelation btfo Arians.

>>750322

I doesn't take a rocket scientist to see some of the apocryphal works are pseudepigraphical. Even so I don't mind having it in bibles. Revelations is probably also baloney if you ask me since it's been a struggle to substantiate to this day.

Even so Catholics have still had no option other than to rely on Protestants for a transitional base.

>>750338

>Revelations is probably also baloney if you ask me since it's been a struggle to substantiate to this day.

How come? Form the early days every orthodox Catholic regarded Revelation as a work of St. John. Also St. Papias also says it was a work of his master, St. John.

Only heretics disregarded it because the text was an attack on their heresies and today atheistic "scholars".

>Even so Catholics have still had no option other than to rely on Protestants for a transitional base.

What transitional base? Whta do you mean? The Canon was defined in Carthage in the 4th century.

>>750341

>How come?

Because some people capable of thinking critically and it looks spurious as with other spurious works.

>What transitional base?

As said earlier the most popular translations currently used in the western world are of Protestant production.

>>749903

>Protestantism is bad because individual interpretation results in many sub-denominations

>prots are all the same

Pick one

>>749834

>this guy says the KJV is filled with masonic symbolism

>he wrote a book about it, so it must be true

Manly P. Hall was also an astrologer, and part of an esoteric "Christian" cult which teaches that man has all the powers that God has.

Do a little research before you start promoting something or someone, and don't go promoting some claims simply because you want them to be true.

>>750371

Lad none of the Church Fathers questioned Revelation. The authorship of other works in the NT was doubted by the Church father, the famous example is Hebrews, like Origen said only God knows who wrote it.

But Revelation was accepted as a johanine work, everyone who was smart to think critically about it ended up as an Arian or some other heresy.

>As said earlier the most popular translations currently used in the western world are of Protestant production

<everyone speaks English

I couldn't care less about English translations, but yes most Catholic English translations are based on protestant ones.

>>750401

><everyone speaks English

Who are you quoting? The majority of Bibles in general tbh are Protestant

>>750407

Yep

>>750401

It was the Reformation and the printing press that gave an impetus for the publishing of translations across Europe during the period. As such the most renown translations have been of Protestant extraction. Some Catholic translations produced the following centuries have been mediocre in comparison with a more dynamic approach.

>>750407

Lol what? Not in Europe lad.

>>750408

>Some Catholic translations produced the following centuries have been mediocre in comparison with a more dynamic approach.

What dynamical approach? Catholic translations are always more accurate than protestant translations. An example is the DRA, which is partly based on the KJV but its way superior to it.

As for my language the prots only made their bibles after 1980 and they are all printed by evangelical groups.

>>750415

I like many parts of the D-R, but it still has bizarre grammar and sentence structure, sticking closely to Latin, even after Bishop Challoner's revisions. I'm not a Protestant, but the KJV is a both a great translation and a literary triumph. Just be sure to get it with the deuterocanon. It's how it was intended.

And at this point, traditional Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants could very well be happy with something like the KJV, compared to the trash that's produced in the modern era.

Frankly, all of the KJV conspiracy is dumb, especially now that Catholics somehow hold up the RSV, which is a fagged out revision of the KJV. Or push the Good News Bible, NRSV, Jerusalem/New Jerusalem, and NAB. It's hypocritical, considering how bad those are.. when in actuality, the KJV comes from the same era as the DR, when scholars weren't so corrupt. They sit side by side as hallmarks of a better age of the church.

This may be the best (succinct) defense of the KJV I've seen. Not from Steve Anderson. Heh. But an Orthodox priest.

http://pemptousia.com/2016/10/an-orthodox-look-at-english-translations-of-the-bible/

>>750435

>Frankly, all of the KJV conspiracy is dumb, especially now that Catholics somehow hold up the RSV, which is a fagged out revision of the KJV.

This. Conspiracy theorists are always the worse.