/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>749224

>>" Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received my money back with interest! Therefore take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten."

Usury wasn't forbidden in the Torah. It was allowed to use on outsiders (which is why Jews gleefully abuse it to this day). But for the Church, all are called to repent and turn to Christ. Technically, there are no outsiders to it (spiritually there are, of course.. but then, that's how Muslims behave. They tax Christians and Jews up the wazoo because of being spiritual outsiders. And simply kill the infidels).

>>749225

how does that resolve the issue? I don't get it. I prefer objective morality, not relativism.

>>749228

It has nothing to do with relativism or objectives. The Scriptures are about covenants and contracts..It's purely legal. And who or who isn't in these contracts. With Christians, potentially everyone is invited to this covenant, and one shouldn't become a stumbling block or means of oppression towards them. In a universal outlook like this, usury was eventually done away with. It's focused on a much bigger picture.

>>749239

You're focused on morals, but that's not what it was exactly about. It's about covenants and being part of the people of God or not.

>>749263

So why can't we do usury against fundamentalist atheists or jews who are totally opposed to our religion?

>>749224

Charging Interest is not Usury. Charging more in interest than the amount of the original loan is Usury.

When you pay a mortgage at 5% interest over 30 years, you will pay the lender almost the same amount as you pay the seller. When our Parents' generation bought a house in 1981, they paid a 17% interest rate, they paid more than 4x the value of the house to the lender in interest.

That's Usury. Not merely the lending of money or the charging of interest.

>>749266

>that's usury

why?

making money off lending money is usury. friends and family don't lend at interest.

>>749224

The parable isn't talking about what you can and can't do with your literal money. That's like hearing the parable of the sower and thinking Jesus was only giving gardening tips.

Talents represent our abilities, resources and opportunities. So the guy with 1 talent has very little skills, resources and opportunities. Instead of doing nothing with them he should seek out someone who knows how to get a return off a little. This means he should serve in the kingdom in some way rather than no way, perhaps by following the leadership of someone with more talents. The whole passage prior and following is about the judgement of our works.

You guys are literally doing the same thing as the disciples when Jesus was telling them to beware the leaven of the Pharisees and they start complaining about not having enough bread.

If your idea of usury is any interest, yes. The God figure in the analogy approved of interest.

Can someone explain usury to me like I don't know anything?

When is it usury? Is it any lending of money, including informally, or under certain circumstances?

Is charging any interest wrong, or only certain rates?

If usury is wrong, is taking out a loan sinful too? Even when the loan is paid back?

Is it lending money that's wrong, or is money itself sinful?

What if money is used for a good cause?

Is having money entirely wrong? Or is it having more money than you need? Or is it only wrong to love money?

Could money possibly be the mark of the beast? You need it to buy and sell.

>>749239

This was before the covenant was open to all nations. Now that it is, you can't charge usury on anyone, alien or not.

>>749265

No, we can't.

>>758928

>Can someone explain usury to me like I don't know anything?

>When is it usury? Is it any lending of money, including informally, or under certain circumstances?

>Is charging any interest wrong, or only certain rates?

Usury is interest of any kind. Modernists lie that it means unfair interest, but they never define unfair. It's weasel wording, so familiar to the devil and bankers. Interest of any kind was only accepted in Christendom after Charlemagne allowed the monopoly of usury to the talmudics.

>If usury is wrong, is taking out a loan sinful too? Even when the loan is paid back?

Our entire economic system is based on usury, the computer you're using and the house you're in have some relation to it. Though obviously living in a house and having a job is not wrong, it's not our fault the system is like this. You can't opt out, even hermits have to pay some type of tax in fiat money.

So temperance is called here, for me, I tolerate usury as long as it's for the raising of my family and development. But I do try to mind which companies I financially support, though.

>Is it lending money that's wrong, or is money itself sinful?

>What if money is used for a good cause?

Our current financial system goes against Christian teaching, indeed. Having notes to represent real productive goods are not.

There are ways we can have loans tied to real productive value instead of financial simulacra. For example, in islamic banking there are no interests based on fiat. Rather, the investor can only gain money by partaking in a % of the profit. If the business it was loaned to fails, the bank only asks for what it loaned without interest.

Some parts of the Russian Orthodox Church suggested something similar, but it was rejected by the government and by the other parts of the same Church.

>Could money possibly be the mark of the beast? You need it to buy and sell.

Revelation 13:16-17 don't sound like representations of real productive value to me. Which is what Money meant to the ancients and what it should be.

I personally think it's an AI chip that watches everything you do that all of humanity will voluntarily choose.

>>749224

Read the line before that.

>His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

The servant is calling his master a thief. His master is saying he should have used the talents the way a thief would.

>>758939

>Usury is interest of any kind.

The problem with this is that lending people money with no interest whatsoever means that because of inflation the lender actually loses money.

>>759003

so don't lend, or don't conduct your business in fiat currency.