/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>Why did God allow the church of Rome church to survive to this day and convert the world?

When your argument could apply equally well to Mohammedanism, might want to rethink that argument.

Not Orthodox (yet), but

>Why did God allow the church of Rome church to survive to this day

Why did God allow Muhammedism to survive to this day? Or Judaism?

>convert the world

The Western Church had the benefits of easy access to the New World and didn't have to deal with Islam as its next door neighbor.

>>746132

Islam is very fragmented, the middle east is a bunch of Arab tribes/sects that have always been fighting among themselves.

>>746133

>The Western Church had the benefits of easy access to the New World

Do you think this was just a coincidence?

>>746134

Catholic nations have fought amongst themselves for its whole history. Does that mean that Catholicism is "fragmented"? Political feuds don't mean that a religion is fragmented. Considering that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are mainline Sunni, I would say that Islam is probably one of the least fragmented religions. Doesn't make it the true faith.

>>746201

Arabs have been far more fragmented historically, they've always been little desert tribes fighting each other constantly. They're not a monolithic religion, they're worse than even prods

>>746207

Was my point not clear? Political disunity =\= religous disunity.

The same reason Ulfilas managed to convert the germans, while the Imperial Church was getting boxed in, or why the Spanish Armada got crushed, allowing anglicans to flourish.

His reasons alone.

>>746137

>Do you think this was just a coincidence?

What is this, Providential Germs, Guns and Steel?

>>746209

>Catholicism today is not the same as catholicism 100 years ago is not the same as catholicism 1000 years ago.

I don't necessarily agree, what do you think changed regarding the gospel? It's still the same path of repentance that was given to us by Christ.

>>746213

Politics aren't wholly separated from religion

>>746216

No, they aren't. What's your point?

>>746213

Your point is lacking.

The Mid East has more religious war than any part in the world right and ever since big M died centuries ago.

Political discourse is a ploy by polititians for their own agenda. I'd bet a very large portions of their grunts at the lowest levels see religion as a prime motivator for violence, that is exclusive for Islam.

As for Catholic nations fighting among themselves, that hasn't happened in ages. Even the last 2 world wars were in no way a religious battlefield.

In all honesty, you take the conversation somewhere it doesn't have to be and don't add anything to it.

>>746131

>How do papists explain protestantism?

>Why did God allow the church of Luther/England church to survive to this day and convert the world?

>>746214

The spanish built a second armada that decimated the english fleet though.

>>746222

Protestantism never converted the world, they aren't even a unified church, the only people who still take it seriously are American's, the rest of the protestant world are thoroughly atheistic and replaced religion with liberalism.

>>746226

Have you looked up for religious statistics in LatAm? Its going to fascinate you.

>>746131

>Why did God allow the church of Rome church to survive to this day and convert the world?

Because without free will, we would just be clever beasts.

>>746133

For whatever it's worth, the new world is rapidly shifting toward prautism.

>>746134

>a bunch of Arab tribes/sects that have always been fighting among themselves.

"I against my brother, my brother and I against our cousin, my brother and cousin and I against the world." -Arabs

>>746223

A: "Decimated" means little between opposing sides, as a 10% loss in battle is the making of a sound victory. "Devastated" would be a better term if you're trying to express massive damage.

B: And Spain fell from the heights of power among nations in the long term. The combined Spanish&French attempt to overrun England was conclusively destroyed in the battle of Trafalgar, and another chance to convert England back to Roman Catholicism the same way it left still has yet to arrive.

>>746345

Orthodox evangelism is largely a struggle against communism. All of the dirty tricks being pulled by communists in USA/EU today were practiced generations ago in the east.

>>746360

The statistics on this topic are worthless. Traditionally South America was identify-as-Catholic, while typically practicing the same things their ancestors practiced before Columbus' voyage. Pseudo-religious megachurches capitalize on this to spread outside of USA and when the battle is finally won by either side it will still probably resemble the days before Columbus.

>>746209

This again. It's as if all the "orthodox" on this board get their ecclesiologocal opinions from sparknotes of the brothers karamozov

>>746137

Protestantism also had access to the New World, the most powerful country in the world is majority protestant, and most of the catholic countries in South America are poor, crime riddled, corrupt, and backwards in every way.

Is that a coincidence?

>>746783

What's wrong about it? Desacralizing the Latin Liturgy to make it more palatable to outsiders is a great sign of that. Like what happened with the Uniates, the papacy will happily throw their rites under the bus for power. Most catholics I've met on this board would agree with that it has done that, specially with the new mass.

>>747091

I would not be so confident in setting the US as an exemplary protestant country. huge self own. Also, protestantism is the majority in the poor, crime riddle countries in most of SS Africa, and will soon be majority in central america and the caribbean.

>>746133

the Mahomedans got as far north as Tours and Vienna, never mind ruling Sicily and Spain for hundreds of years. The difference is the West managed to fight them off

>>747184

>exemplary protestant country

I didn't say it was exemplary, just that it was protestant.

How many of those south american countries are exemplary catholic countries?

>>747184

>The difference is the West managed to fight them off

Kinda.

Some of the catholic campaigns against them within Europe were a disaster, they were a plague upon catholic countries for centuries and North Africa was still never recovered, and their pirates would enslave millions of euro catholics for half a millenia(which dutch and anglos also interpreted as evidence of God's wrath upon the papist idolaters), until America, of all countries, finished them off.

This type of stuff is why i hate applying narratives into history.

It always distorts and selectively picks the facts, to make some stupid hero narrative:

>We deus vulted and chewed bubblegum, and were the pinnacle of civilisation and culture, while the rest of the planet is Mordor, so that proves our theology is right;

>We were the based mystics that went down swinging against muslims, and muh slavic soul, unlike le decadent materialist West;

>We were le stoic, Bible believing fags that branzely went to convert the heathens, so Jesus rewarded us with rich countries;

>We got persecuted by dictatorships, so that means we are the real christians. Hail Jehovah!

>We went from fleeing for our lives from the Quraish, to conquering most of the Middle East in a couple of decades, so that proves Allah is with us and our uber-conservative values, unlike the decadent West, which we are islamifying too;

>Secular countries are the richest and safest atm, so that proves atheism and science is true. Hail progress!

>The most buddhist country in the world is super happy, so…you get the point

etc.

I'm sure you can find plenty of holes in all these stories, and that's the point.

>>746213

Your argument is completely bunk. What is accentuated in Catholicism is the communion in the Body of Christ. You can have as much political disunity as you want in Catholicism. This is lacking in every other religion.

>>747091

>the most powerful country in the world

Israel is not a Protestant nation you dip

>>747320

Israel is also NOT the most powerful nation in the world. that title belongs to the Philippines, home of the most powerful race in the world

duh