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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 6912c0fb8b01825⋯.jpg (217.34 KB, 800x949, 800:949, Origen.jpg)

04d8fc  No.745741

Is Origen a reputable source on Flavian Josephus at all?

>"And to so great a reputation among the people for righteousness did this James rise, that Flavius Josephus, who wrote the Antiquities of the Jews in twenty books, when wishing to exhibit the cause why the people suffered so great misfortunes that even the temple was razed to the ground, said, that these things happened to them in accordance with the wrath of God in consequence of the things which they had dared to do against James the brother of Jesus who is called Christ. And the wonderful thing is, that, though he did not accept Jesus as Christ, he yet gave testimony that the righteousness of James was so great"

Where did Josephus right any of that? Is he making up shit?

04d8fc  No.745749

>>745745

>I think he's referring to the famous (or infamous) testimonium Flavianum. It's deleted in some copies. Some say it was forged. Still interesting that someone as early as Origen already knew of it (or something like it).

There's no evidence for this. This is an assumption that he's correct about Josephus' text. Also this quote of it you provide doesn't even talk about the same thing. It doesn't praise James nor does it even speak about the reasoning of the fall of the temple.

>>745747

We aren't talking about Jesus, we're talking about James and the razing of the temple. If that's entirely wrong then we have reason to doubt the bits about Josephus on Jesus.


04d8fc  No.745751

>>745750

>I'm just saying there was probably something here that was omitted (possibly on both sides. Jews first, Christians later). What remains isn't very illuminating on what the text might be. I see no reason that Origen was lying though: He was actually complaining about parts of it, and not just holding up the story of James. It appears there was a whole section on Christians that is gone.

There's no reason to think it was there in the first place. Again, you're assuming.


bc3fa7  No.745788

>>745741

>Where did Josephus right any of that?

He mentions James in book 20, chapter 9, of The Antiquities of the Jews.

>And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent.

>>745745

The controversy surrounding the TF is retarded. It's in all of the of the earliest copies of Josephus's writings(the earliest copy without it is a Middle Eastern manuscript that was written over a thousand years after the original.) It's only accused as being a forgery because it lends support to Christianity. You could take any random passage and make the same bullshit argument about it being a forgery.


04d8fc  No.745980

>>745788

He mentions James but he doesn't praise his righteousness or blame the razing on his death as Origen says in >>745741


162554  No.745983

Am I going crazy? Didn't we have this exact same thread word for word a few months ago?


f726cf  No.745989

>>745788

>The earliest copy without it is a Middle Eastern manuscript that was written over a thousand years after the original.

Not to mention found within Islamic lands and written during their expansion.




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