/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>743469

You

<How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Jesus

>Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

You

<This saying is hard, and who can hear it?

Jesus

>Doth this scandalize you? If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life. But there are some of you that believe not. Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father

You

>*leaves*

I have no intention of mocking you friend, but when Jesus confronts those who doubt his teachings on the Eucharist by doubling down on them, I seriously have to wonder why a minority of those who study scripture have begun to doubt him on this subject in recent centuries. Very strange...

>>743477

Jesus:

>The flesh profiteth nothing

You:

>It is necessary for my salvation that I convince myself that the bread is literally flesh, and participate in a ritual

>>743479

Jesus:

>It is the spirit that quickeneth

You:

>It isn't helpful that I eat the flesh for its spirit.

"God is nearer to me than I am to myself!" – Meister Eckhart

>>743479

>It is necessary for my salvation that I convince myself that the bread is literally flesh, and participate in a ritual

The Church has always held that the Eucharist is not necessart for salvation, a fact the statement "the flesh profiteth nothing, it is the spirit that quickeneth" attests to. It is not the host, but one's faith in Christ that saves, and Jesus is quick to point that out to clarify his previous statements "Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day." Here he is crystal clear; he that eat's Christ's flesh, in the most literal sense, has eternal life, I.e. Christ, in them. This bold statement, if combined with your interpreation of "the flesh profits nothing," is a blatant contradition in terms. What would your exegisis be that would resolve this contradiction without denying that those who eat Christ's flesh have life within them?

>>743487

Jesus is simply saying that to partake of the nectar of his words will make you like him. Naturally you want to be like him because he is so close to God. It's a metaphor. He is saying if you eat of his essence and drink in what he is saying you will too become godly! He uses other metaphors in other places.

Anyone with two good ears had better listen!

>>743493

>It's a metaphor

When the Jews ask the meaning of Jesus's words, he does not, like in many other places, simply state it is a metaphor. He in fact reasserts his position. He does not say eat my essence and drink my words, he says eat my flesh and drink my blood. A great many disciples left because they found this teaching offensive; if we accept the modern, minority interpretation of this verse, then that would be the bulk of his followers leaving over his tamest metaphor, not his most radical statement of his power. A metaphor that would be in clear line with Jesus's theology up to that point, the theology that drew him so many followers in the first place, is not a hard, scanalous statement. Why do you think it is?

>>743501

I don't I'm not confused. You seem very confused and I feel bad for you. The truth is so simple but you can't grasp it. What other hell do you need than to be unable to find Christ?

>The truth is so simple but you can't grasp it.

Neither did any Christians up until I want to say Wycliffe then. Again, I ask, why would so many Christians leave Christ, asking "how can he give us his flesh to eat," if all that statement is is a tame reassertion of the beliefs that had leas them to Christ in the first place. Please, just tell me why?

>>743515

And also why would so many Christians leave Christ, asking "how can he give us his flesh to eat," if all that statement is is a tame reassertion of the beliefs that had leas them to Christ in the first place?