/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>736147

Homily is in vernacular,

also

>You Retweeted

I honestly don't understand the point either. Why listen to something you don't understand

Vernacular Extraordinary Form mass would be great, to bad you can only have it in Latin. Otherwise It's suprising to see how many people Catholic church converted when they pretty much had only Latin up until recently.

I go to mass to be relaxed and be around fellow Christians. 30 seconds chants won't help you better understand Him, you can do that in your spare time or with your group.

It's totally LARPy, but it's still cool.

>>736147

It's more important to be devoted at Mass than to understand it fully. Mystery is an important part of the religious experience.

>Also:

1. Latin was the language of the Roman Empire, where Christianity grew, so it is a tradition.

2. The mass in Latin shows unity among Catholics. One can go a TLM in China and feel to be at home.

3. Latin is a beautiful language, therefore it resembles God.

4. Latin is a sacred language, used mostly in liturgy in the modern times, so it helps us to differentiate the mundane and the divine.

5. Latin is a precise dead language, which mean that words don't change their meaning over time. And this is very important since Christianity teaches eternal truths. It is not the same "hostia" and host.

>>736181

Great explanation, the efficacy of the Mass is not at all contingent on our understanding or comprehension of it. In fact, allowing it to just happen helps me focus more on God's presence rather than the minutiae.

>>736147

Vetus Ordo is a superior rite in just about everything, I can't really answer your question since I am italian and I can easily understand latin.

I only need to catch 2 words of the Gospel to understand which episode is being read.

It's just so beautiful the way it sounds like gibberish to me and I just love how I cant understand 75 percent of the mass I go to.

>>736181

I wonder if 1500 years after (if) English has died as a language, people will claim it's a sacred language.

>>736181

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

>>736224

Yeah, "traditionalism" is all a big product to be marketed. You've exposed our scheme based on that random picture I pulled out of my ass. We were raking in the big bucks before you came along, too.

>>736237

Ah, yeah I suppose, my apologies. I did just check that site out and the shirts they sell are super overpriced, and the marketing on the website is gross.

>whats the point in going to a Mass if you dont understand the Word of The Lord they read and their homily.

How to spot a prot that doesnt know what the frick he's talking about

The Gospel can, and often is in vernacular. The homily is always in vernacular.

>>736153

It wouldn't be so hard to understand if it weren't forbidden to speak in the modern world.

>>736194

English is by far the most common studied second language in the world.

>>736218

>it's irrelevant whether or not you understand the words being said

t. exclusionist snob

The chants do sound majestic and creating serviceable melodies in all the vernaculars is probably one of the main impediments. Otherwise it would be reasonably desirable to have liturgy in every community's main tongue.

>>736330

And there was a time when Latin was the language of the world. Now it's a dead language, claimed to be sacred. Hence, my IF … IF …

IF

>>736224

>>736331

I like Latin mass, but the liturgy of St Chrysostom in any language is better

>>736365

Hey now, some Latin chants are among the best in the planet.

>>736194

Maybe conservative Anglicans and KJV-onlyists

>>736220

What's wrong with that ? Not my fault church is comfy.

>>736159

>Vernacular Extraordinary Form mass would be great

this would be the best solution imo

>>736824

Is it true it was encouraged/okay to hate jews before v2? I thought they didn't change any doctrine. SPLC is the last place I'd get facts from but I'm still curious about this point.

Because Americans and Catholic kids in culturally deprived countries want to find comfort in a culture they can feel nostalgic about but know nothing about. Extraordinary Mass is beautiful and all, but it's treated like a tv show you watch every week. That's why the bell is there: to get your attention after you stopped paying attention and say that the consecration is happening. Pope Pius X was vehemently against the lazy treatment the Mass had developed, hints why he started encouraging people to pray the Mass instead of just going to Mass and praying during. The issue of people lazily sitting and watching Mass was addressed by the liturgical reforms and V2, which is why Mass became more participatory. Thing is, a lot of converts get turned off of the New Mass because they want to be reverent but they end up at a parish with an irreverent population, but that's not representative of the New Mass. But the irony is that these people will say "Mass isn't about you!" but then immediately complain about things they don't like at an Ordinary Form parish.

>video related

>it's what my home parish's Mass looks like, but my parish does it in English and not ad orientem.

>>736958

Didn't post video

>>736193

So you're saying your stupid.

>>736174

>He doesn't know that the whole point of the Latin mass is so that you're certain of an orthodox liturgy without mistranslations and heresies

Wtf I'm Latin vulgate onlyist now

>>736147

Because they hate the bible and don't want anyone to hear it

>>736978

>Implying the Vulgate has anythjng to do with the liturgy except for the readings

Bloody heck people are stupid.

>>736986

Ahh yes, protestant arguments.

Bit strange that the readings are either in vernacular or translated in the homily but hey got to have that fanfiction narrative I guess.

>>736325

>if it weren't forbidden to speak in the modern world.

?

>>736181

Didn't the eastern half speak greek?

> The mass in Latin shows unity among Catholics.

So why won't the church make eastern catholics use Latin instead of their local language?

>Latin is a beautiful language

agreed

>Latin is a sacred language

Would you also say greek is a sacred language? What about Armenian?

>>737091

>every 7 branched candle holder is a menorah

Tiggro, please.

>>736153

Lol you dont know latin?

This video is good even though I wouldn't endorse everything from them.

>>736828

> we love jews, we are supposed to love our enemies

>>736828

It wasn't encouraged to hate jews, but you weren't expected to pretend they dindu nuffin, and the Church was far, far wiser to their tricks.

>>736576

Honestly, I’m Orthodox and even I’m tired of Luther bashing. It has nothing to do with the thread. To have the main liturgics of Mass done in the vanacular was the Vatican’s own idea, Luther just happened to come up with something similar first.

>>736611

>Plus the handshaking is gross and disgusting as well. Some people come to mass and are really filthy, coughing, homeless, etc. All you can think about is washing your hand afterwards.

And yet, Christ washed the filthy feet of sinners. Really makes you think.

>>736218

>The Mass isn't about you or the people in the pews. It isn't for your entertainment and it's irrelevant whether or not you understand the words being said

Honest question: What is the mass about?

>>736194

If it was used specifically as a special, liturgical language, I guess it, for exactly this reason, would indeed become a sacred language; ways of celebrating liturgy other than the Latin, Roman one exist in the Catholic Church, and the people who use these other ways use other langauges than Latin for this purpose.

>>737967

That's blasphemous and abominable

>>738236

At the Crucifixion, the Son offered Himself to the Father for the forgiveness of mankind's sins. The very same sacrifice is what happens at the Mass; it is the same event cutting through time and space.

>>738283

Never fails to amaze me that anyone finds this "argument" weighty considering it's literally just a baseless assertion by people who generally don't even know their own church's history past vatican 2

>>738286

I've heard it before pal, I ain't buyin it. Not even going to bother explaining why it's false because the only response I've ever received is to repeat the initial statement

>>736147

It's pathetic to think that Latin has a special place in Christianity because the biblical languages are only Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

>>738283

>stupid goyim, literally no-one worshipped God correctly until some man started spewing blasphemy around 20 A.D, that makes perfect sense.

>>738567

Wow homophobe, you're anti-gay? Looks like you've been blinded by your own pride and bigotry into thinking you're wiser than every Catholic and Orthodox theologian who've lived for the past 2,000 years

>>738627

No, you're just too daft

Latin is lame

>>736572

And then people wonder why proteatants arent taken seriously

>>736828

Vatican 2 said : "LOL, Stop hating the Jews, they are NOT our mortal enemies, #NotAllJews, #WeHaveNoEnemies"

Which lead to the catastrophic situation today, where we can't even name our enemies.

>>736147

During Latin (extraordinary form) masses, you can't even hear the priest, he may as well pray in Klingon. You'd know that if you actually went to a Latin mass. Hearing the priest and 'participating' in the mass was never the point, the faithful would just pray the rosary through the mass in silence. No singing, no dancing, no holding hands, no hugging, no clapping. Just silence and prayer.

Now, in SSPX chapels they give you small missal with latin text on one side and vernacular on the other if you reeeally want to follow what the priest is doing but it's really not important.

>>736171

>I go to mass to be relaxed

>muh because fellow christians

>art with a transcendent value will not help you understand Him

>Rite/chants are LARPy

I do not want to be the guy that rants but:

You go to mass to meet God first of all.

Art helps you understand God because the beauty comes from God. There is nothing LARPy about the rite as there is nothing larpy about the chants

>>736824

>SPLC

kek. For further reference see Revelation 2:9

>>737048

>So why won't the church make eastern catholics use Latin instead of their local language?

Because its part of their culture so as their rites which are beautiful expressions of the devotion to Christ in several places.

Latin shows unity among westerns because we have a winnie the pooh load of languages and no one would understand mass if they went to France or Germany for example. Kinda like the tower of Babel.

>Would you also say greek is a sacred language? What about Armenian?

Greek was the first liturgical language along with aramaich. The kyrie eleison is a remain of the Greek mass. Of course its a sacred language.

As for Armenian its beyond my knowledge. I have to get informed better.

>>736828

Hating Jews just because was never the church doctrine. Even in the papal States Jews were allowed to live and practice their satanic rituals.

But every Jew is an enemy of the church and that still applies.

What VII condemns is antisemitism in the true sense of the world, since catholics aren't racist (in the true meaning of the word). Therefore it follows that not every Jew is guilty of the death of Christ because if he converts his race means nothing. If he remains a jew then yeah he is guilty.

I think E. Michael Jones makes some good points on this.

>>736147

>>736153

>Why do all these people who dont speak Latin want Latin only mass

Latin being a dead language is exactly why its superior for this purpose. Its meanings are known and set in stone, and since it's not spoken in everyday life, its meaning will always be the same and not subject to the whims of language deevolution.

There's also a bit of the call of the traditional in there. The latin mass is what was had for centuries, and it's reasonable to see the 1960s+ changes to the liturgy as strictly inferior to what came before.

>>736147

It sounds cool :^)

Theres a booklet/pamphlet to follow along…Plus it is SILENT except for the priest/music. The entire atmosphere is much more reverent, holier.

>>736181

> Mystery is an essential part of the religious experience

> Thinks the mystery of religious experience is listening to a language you don't understand and not a direct spiritual knowing of the holiness of God

Smh tbh lad

>whats the point in going to a Mass if you dont understand the Word of The Lord they read and their homily.

A thread died for this.

>>736147

I like it because the priests who do the latin mass and the people that participate tend to be far more reverent (and based) than the average folk, and their churches tend to be quite beautiful.

but it isn't really necessary at all for it to be latin, for example the Marian priests tend to be quite good as well. I've attended some exceptional norvus ordo as well

>>761909

>for example the Marian priests tend to be quite good as well

Redpill me on them. What's the actual name of the order?

I think I've heard the same, but applied to fringe sedevacantists.