/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>729732

>without any form of consciousness considered worthy of life?

According to (((whom)))?

>>729737

Their brain stem which is the only thing functioning in them

Human life is sacred, even the most severely retarded

The only argument to have is whether an extreme circumstance is a life or not. In this case it obviously is, but what about a Siamese twin that was mostly absorbed in development?

In my opinion, either this is all some sick joke to these people to make money, or they're all crazy.

Thank God I'm not to judge.

>worthy of life

>worthy

Something either lives, or not. Since when is it a matter of worthiness?

>>729739

>In this case it obviously is, but what about a Siamese twin that was mostly absorbed in development?

Wtf tell me more.

She's honoring the sacredness of human life, and in doing so, She is honoring God.

She's blessed. Who here calls themselves Christians, but could accept this test? I think if anything happened like this to my future children, I'm not even sure how I would react.

>>729759

>>729786

Fine, it's not a life. Their bodies are alive and being kept so by their brain stem, but humans can do the same thing on the bodies on brain-dead people without even that working. Everything human has been stripped out of them, they are no different than a dead person, and are only wasting our resources on someone who consciously isn't even unconscious like a person in a coma, but already dead.

There's even video of them both with a monitor with an image and an eye tracker placed right in front of them, and they didn't even notice and kept looking to the side.

>>729789

> they are no different than a dead person

Says who? You? Imagine yourself taking a knife and ending their lives, would it be a murder or not?

Look at abortion, they are just "cells", they aren't "living", is that murder or not?

>>729790

Not really actually, though taking a knife is a bit far pulling the plug one them is something you're better off doing.

Fetuses, on the other hand, are in most cases going to evolve into humans with a properly working conscious, and this includes people with mental disabilities like Down Syndrome, and less severe microcephaly, and so man other things. But in extreme cases like this, there is no working conscious, they're no different than someone without even a brain stem using a pump to operate their heart and keep their vital functions alive.

>>729789

>No different than a dead person

Well, other than being alive. So what if they're eyes didn't respond to something in front of them, what does that prove other than a lack of pupil response? The bottom line is that they're living people.

If you're so worried about the surely minimal resources (in comparison to the huge resources spent on recreation, entertainment, etc. by the average person that these two won't be spending) then why not just kill anybody who you think is being "wasteful"? Maybe you could poison the food at a soup kitchen, or plant a bomb at a welfare office. Or just sneak into people's houses and kill them in their sleep, they won't feel a thing, and think of all the resources!

And I would like to extend on what the Bible says, if I may.

The Bible was written so everyone could read and understand it, but that included people back then who had no idea of brain stems, and medicines used to keep such cases of people alive.

Thinking of the Bible this way makes sense in other places as well, especially the OT. People back then no idea of the science behind creation, so you wouldn't criticize much of the Bible with things like how modern science explains it.

But that's beyond the point, being dead and being someone like a 'Hartley Hooligan' is one the same in terms of consciousness.

>>729792

Because those places end up benefiting people. Keeping such cases of people like the Hartley Hooligans alive doesn't benefit them, or society as a whole. And if you knew enough about the Hartley Hooligans they're only benefiting their crazy parents that are seeking social media popularity.

>>729792

If you to be part of a honest discussion, why make use of such silly rhetorical extrapolations?

>>729791

>Not really actually, though taking a knife is a bit far pulling the plug one them is something you're better off doing.

You cannot be a Christian and advocate for the euthanasia of human beings, men are both body and soul, the mental incapacity is unfortunate, but not enough to besmirch the dignity of the man, or the image of God.

>>729797

This is highly relative to how you consider what a soul is and how it works.

The soul is what grants us as William Lane Craig said "free will, intentionality, etc", and as he said our brain is what grants the soul to function, and if the brain is damaged, so is the soul its ability to think.

That said, the soul is defunct in people who only have a functioning brain stem. It cannot communicate with itself (the person), and it cannot communicate with any part of their bodies. So in that regard it's just as useless as if it weren't there.

It's like I stated earlier, everything human about them has been taken out. So it would be perfectly moral to put them out of this state, not just for resourceful purposes and medical help and money that can go to other people who are aware, need the help more, but also so that their soul can leave their restraints of flesh and blood and go up to heaven in hopefully, a perfect form.

>>729732

this is the type of shit that will winnie the pooh you up and shake your faith. i'll be honest, whenever i see a severely retarded person, (not just a downie or an autist, like can't wipe their own ass tier) i don't feel like i'm looking at a human being. i don't know if this is wrong, but its just how i feel, its like i'm just looking at a husk. i'm not saying that they aren't people, but i am saying that they don't feel like people. how can someone with no agency ever repent? and if God didn't give them the agency to repent, then He's predestining them for Hell, which is evil and a heresy to suggest. if anything, maybe they can't commit sin and you just have to baptize them, i mean it works for babies who don't really have agency. i'd be interested to hear what a theologist or a priest would have to say on the matter

>>729820

>This is highly relative to how you consider what a soul is and how it works.

>This is highly relative

>(((relative)))

>>729738

Reductive materialism a shit.

>>729789

>Fine, it's not a life. Their bodies are alive and being kept so by their brain stem, but humans can do the same thing on the bodies on brain-dead people without even that working.

I don't see any machines hooked up to those girls.

As Christians we take care of the weak, we don't rationalize why it's ok to kill retarded people.

>>729793

>The Bible was written so everyone could read and understand it

No it wasn't, the scriptures are understood in the context of the church. Scripture alone and private interpretations is how you get seventh day adventists

>But that's beyond the point, being dead and being someone like a 'Hartley Hooligan' is one the same in terms of consciousness.

You have no idea what you're talking about, you're making assumptions about something that's beyond your individual grasp of understanding

>Keeping such cases of people like the Hartley Hooligans alive doesn't benefit them, or society as a whole

Materially and financially, maybe not, if that's what you value. Taking care of the needy and helpless is always a learning experience and it makes us better people.