/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>728773

bump

>>728773

>when no angel is mentioned in scripture as having wings?

They are described as having wings.

>>728778

Cherubim and Seraphim are, but they are not referred to as messengers.

>>728779

Ok, yeah depends on how you use the term angel. Malakh, the Hebrew word specifically refers to messengers, but in the Septuagint the word angeloi (not sure on spelling) is used generically to refer to all such supernatural beings.

>>728785

The term "sons of God" (beney elohim) is sometimes translated that way iirc. I just recently read Heiser's Unseen Realm so it's still fairly fresh in my mind.

>>728788

Do you count demons? Because the Israelites are attacked by "fiery serpents" in the desert, which are very likely demons. Actually not sure what you're asking. Are you saying not humanoid or humanoid but without arms and legs lol

>>728788

Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Revelation as far as I know. The Malakhim seem to always appear in human form, or as incredibly glorious humans.

>>728789

>Because the Israelites are attacked by "fiery serpents" in the desert, which are very likely demons

Pretty sure those are natural creatures, mentioned by several historians like Pliny the Elder and Herodotus.

>>728792

Could be.

>>728789

In the sense that demons are cast out angels after that whole thing Lucy did, yes, but I was asking in relation to all the not common depictions, about all the not demon ones like the chariot shaped one, or I remember someone telling me about the three headed Chimera looking one, and some that where just shaped like simple shapes, like a pyramid for a head. Pretty fuzzy about it though.

>>728792

That sounds like a dragon.

>>728796

I mean I'm sure you could google and find a full list. Off the top of my head I also remember there being a class of angels known as "thrones".

>>728797

That's part of why I made this post; the "Thrones" are depicted as wheels, but in the actual Bible those wheels are somehow a part of the cherubim, and not separate beings.

>>728796

I might make a separate post about the serpents; it's too much to get into for this thread.

>>728797

A side question about other accounts of other religion's having "winged humanoids" some benevolent while other blatantly demons, but very far away to any biblical events. Is there any type of official verdict

on those, and if so, what is it? I've always been curious.

If angels don't have wings, how do they fly? You think they take coach just like the rest of us? What a silly question. I doubt the majority of angels even have passports, which would make booking tickets unnecessarily complicated.

>>728834

What the hell are you talking about?

>>728834

Why would non-physical beings needs wings to fly?

>>728898

Because they look cool.

>>728898

They are non-physical wings

>>728898

They might represent something abstract, or something. Not saying that that's why they are there though, I still don't understand why the supernatural beings in Ezekiel are described like that.

Bunch of jealous people ITT that don't have wings

>>729528

Yes, I realized that both the Cherubim and Seraphim are described as actually using their wings to fly, and now I feel foolish.

>>729690

You also have to admit having wings looks super cool

heaven is up above, and what lives in the skies has wings. Also i'm pretty sure I recall reading that birds were considered best animal in the OT.

Also I heard that the dietary restrictions of the OT were based on the fact that "what belongs to the air lives in the air, what belongs in the water stays in the water, what belongs on the earth stays on the earth." Animals like say, chickens or ostriches which are birds but walk on land instead of flying would have been unclean. If this is true and not just hearsay, it makes sense that in heaven they would have wings like birds.

>>729741

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. Birds have wings like angels, not the other way around.

>>729741

Wow, what a Mickey Mouse tier """""theology""""" you have there

I had a thought the other day that Michael is a kind of an interesting symbol for Gentiles in the Church. Lucifer was the chief archangel, but rebelled. So the second one in charge had to step to the plate. Jews are similar rebels, in that they were the first given the revelation and word of God, but then chose Barabbas over Jesus, and fight to enact an evil world order that is counter to the Church.

I'm not sure I've ever run across this teaching though. Maybe it's something that's been said before?

>>729741

chickens are clean

>>731222

That's a very interesting thought

>>731222

Semi-related: would the expulsion from Heaven have occurred at the resurrection? In John’s vision of the woman clothed with the sun, the dragon is thrown down after the child is taken up to Heaven.

>>729690

Yeah, in a vision. Visions are often metaphorical

>>728780

Moloch is a deity that Canaanites sacrificed their children too. Malakh is what the angels are called. This is rather quite strange. Were they sacrificing their children to angels? What was the nature of this sacrifice? What did making your children pass through the fire mean? Were they literally burnt alive or just had their minds and souls offered to spirits?

>Why are angels proper nearly always depicted with wings in art, when no angel is mentioned in scripture as having wings?

Same reason why they are always should be male, to make metaphysical physical.

Angels were created in and live in Heaven, so giving the brids' (who fly in heavens, or sky, why do yall even have two words for that?) wings is fitting. They are also spirits, and spirit and wind is the same word in Hebrew and Greek, so again birds come to mind. They are not bound by gravity for they have no bodies ergo they can fly. And they are fast. Really, really fast. Speed of though fast.

>What experiences with angels are found in the lives of the saints?

Book of Tobit. Read it. There is also St Cecilia and her angel of purity, pope Gregory (?) who saw Michael at Rome or St. Aquinas who were given his purity cord by two angels after he kicked out whore from his room with burning rod.

>What led Augustine to conceive of the angelic hierarchy as he did? Was it revealed, or was it only speculation on his part?

Friend of Paul, first mystical doctor, St. Dionysus.

>>731300

Metaphor doesn't mean "opposite". In Job's time Satan could come and go in Heaven as he pleased.

>>731301

The etymology of the two words are different. Moloch is a transliteration of Mlk, "Malik" meaning "king". "Malakh" on the other hand means messenger, sharing roots with the Hebrew "Mel'akah", meaning "worker".

>>731262

I'm the one who wrote the earlier post, but I tend to clear cache and change IP..

Anyways, that's an interesting thought as well. Revelation 12, I think, spans a lot of time and multiple events, so you could be on to something.

>>731319

>>731300

I somehow got a couple posts confused. My apologies.