/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>719315

It sounds like weasel words with the importance being "they profess". Either way a catechism should never use vagueries and weasel words to confuse the faithful. If it does mean what we think it means then it is a garbage catechism for it erroneously claims Muslims worship the same God which is dogmatically false. Either way it goes into the garbage. The Roman catechism of Trent is the best catechism

This is why sedevacantists are right. The 1983 code of canon law is just as illegitimate as V2.

>>719332

>one book is written vaguely with an emphasis I dont like

>the whole church is now in error

Lmao

>>719315

1. Are you a monotheist?

2. Do you believe more than one God exists?

If the answer to the above is "no", as I believe it should be, how can CCC 841 be refuted, which states that Muslims "together with us adore the one, merciful God">>719315

>>719334

>the one merciful God is some abstraction which can be separated from the personhood of Jesus Christ

>>719338

thats right

The muslims profess to worship the same God of the Bible.

Now of course Allah ha different rules and acts in different ways, so they must be wrong. But still Muslim claim and honestly believe to be worshipping the same God, even though they are deluded.

>>719333

>The words do not matter

>Doctrine does not matter

>Everyone before VII was a heretic

>Everyone before VII was not a heretic because God changes according to man's wishes and feewings

Lol.

The code of canon lwas is illegitimate because the doctrine cannot change, it is set in stone. Anyone having a problem with that is not catholic in the first place

>>719315

>how can CCC 841 be defended, which states that Muslims “together with us adore the one, merciful God”

It's a consequence of absolute divine simplicity which is really just ancient monism/perrenialism. If God is absolutely simple essence than all religious traditions are ultimately the same. VII is just the logical conclusion of Latin errors that go back more than a millennia.

>>719345

Do Muslims worship the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one in essence and undivided? No? Then whatever it is that they claim to worship, it is not God.

>>719334

Theres a difference between saying "one merciful God" and "the one merciful God"

"One merciful God" only implies that they profess to worship one God that is merciful, "the one merciful God" implies that it's the same God, but they worship demons

>The Lord our God is One Lord

That isn't denying the trinity. God is ONE in THREE and THREE in ONE.

>>719404

Muslims disagree

>>719402

So the statement in the OP can be defended on the grounds that natural truth is available to all observers, allowing each to access real knowledge and reach real conclusions about the same God. But this basic knowledge goes only so far, and does not go far enough to satisfy the demands of Christianity, which contains other truths that, while purely revealed, must also be given assent, such as the truth of Jesus Christ's divinity.

>>719460

They do know that God is One though, which is what the Catechism claims about them. They don't know that God is also Three, and in general they don't know many things about God and even believe falsehoods about Him, but it's not true that they know nothing - they do get some facts about God right, e.g. that He is One (again, this doesn't mean that they don't get others things wrong - they definitely do, e.g. they don't know that God is Three, too).

>>719595

It says they worship THE one merciful God, but the one merciful God is Holy Trinity of God The Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit

>>719315

Here you go m8

>It says they worship THE one merciful God, but the one merciful God is Holy Trinity of God The Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit

Yes, it's true, that's a true fact about the one true God, and they believe in errors about true God. But this doesn't mean that they believe in different god, merely that they, while believing in true God, also believe some things about Him that aren't true.

To use an example: suppose I believe that George Washington had a Turkish father. This is of course incorrect, because he didn't have a Turkish father - but it wouldn't mean that I don't know that the historical George Washington existed. I would still know about his existence and believe in it, but I would also believe an untruth about him.

>>719613

My God is Jesus Christ. If somebody's god is not Jesus Christ, they do not believe in my God.

>>719613

Really, so the deity of God the Son is as minor and irrelevant a fact about God as the ethnicity of one's father is about a man? Here's a more accurate analogy, it's more like the muslims say George Washington was a 5th century Irish peasant, and when you tell them who George Washington actually was, they say "no that's not George Washington, he was an Irish peasant". The fact of the matter is the sole reason you're defending this is because it's the "infallible" teaching of your church. This is what happens when you deny sola scriptura, you so enslave yourself to a man that when they start compromising with the world and embracing modernism, you'll go along with it and defend the indefensible to the death as if it came from the mouth of God Himself. When Rome inevitably does explicitly approve homosexuality, I'm sure you'll have plenty of people leaving the Romish church, but you'll also have diehard papists sticking to it and arguing why sodomy is a great thing. Hell, that's practically what you have already with their novel "it's okay to be gay as long as you don't have gay sex" nonsense.

>>719315

But the Muslims do worship God, albeit incorrectly.

>>719624

Muslims recognize the metaphysically ultimate God, who all mighty all knowing all good etc..

So they understand the fundamental nature of God; they just have a false revelation.

>>719959

>>719993

>But the Muslims do worship God, albeit incorrectly.

>But the Jews do worship God, albeit incorrectly.

>But the Mormons do worship God, albeit incorrectly.

>But the Hindus do worship God, albeit incorrectly.

>But the Atheists do worship God, albeit incorrectly.

>But the Priapists do worship God, albeit incorrectly.

>>720018

Muslims and Jews do recognize God however in a false manner.

The Mormons are henotheists and do not even have the basics of God.

Hinduism isn't homogeneous, some Hindu philosophies and practices do recognize God while others not so much.

you should know the catechism isn't infallible. also cardinal burke said outright many times that muslims don't believe in the same god as catholics. so for one of the greatest canon lawyers living today to say this should tell you enough that nostra atatae was a big mistake and it's extremely ambiguous. papal bulls have called muslims pagans and godless before and you can't contradict each other. the most charitable explanation is that for some unlearned person, probably illiterate, they may be wanting to worship god despite not knowing that the description of Allah is 99% related to Satan and 1% related to God. but only if you're like probably mentally retarded. most people have to realize that this Allah character is evil, and if you choose to worship him you're worshiping the Devil.