/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>718693

I think the Orthos were right. Heaven and hell are just states of being after death. After physical life is done the tutorial is over and you're exposed to a more massive universe.

>>718694

Are you suggesting salvation after death? Because I think that's a mormon thing.

>>718694

Yeah, but if you die as a unbaptized, unrepentant sinner life after leaving the body is supposed to be terrible isn't it? Most of the people who have NDE's seem to fit that category. Also these experiences have all kinds of weird religious overtones. "Beings of light" will teach them things like how the purpose of life is to be compassionate and loving to others, and they often mention things like reincarnation, and that we come down to earth as a "learning experience". It's very gnostic. I mean the stuff about love is true, but not if taken in isolation, then it just becomes a sort of secular humanism.

NDE doesn't mean DE. Why am I not shocked?

>>718699

Some cases involve clinical death, some don't.

>>718701

But the fact that it's called a NDE even with temporary clinical death kind of defeats your point.

>>718703

What point? How?

>>718693

>>718697

In a NDE people aren’t dead. They don’t die. Why would they experience final judgment if God knows they’re not going to actually die? It’s really not that complicated.

>>718705

So what is it then? A hallucination?

>>718696

Not sure what that means, but I probably don't believe it.

>>718697

>"Beings of light" will teach them things like how the purpose of life is to be compassionate and loving to others

Probably because that's how those people behaved throughout their lives so that's how the spirits tried to communicate with them. Jesus said treat others how you want to be treated for a reason.

>they often mention things like reincarnation, and that we come down to earth as a "learning experience

Hmm, possibly demons deceiving them because they know the victim will wake up again and spread the lie to others.

I've been haunted by demons before. They'll usually try to appeal to you based on your previous actions and thoughts and then suggest things that sound harmless or behave in a seemingly benign way but they're really just trying to manipulate you into doing something that will hurt you. Or maybe it's just mental illness, who knows.

>>718704

Do I really need to spell it out for you? NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. Just because a doctor declares you dead doesn't mean that you're actually dead, as in, during a NDE it's not your time yet. Why would someone go to their judgement during a NDE? God doesn't need an undo button.

>>718708

see

>>718706

>>718720

Good post, thanks. I think the "aerial realm" hypothesis has a lot of plausibility.

>>718723

>>718725

I have a tendency to delete my own posts and re-post them because I don't proofread.

You're welcome anon.

Ironically, demons have never been so powerful in our materialistic/atheist world.

As Baudelaire once said : "The devil's greatest trick is to make you believe he doesn't exist"

>>718693

I've read about NDEs. I think the category is legit, but there is also much deception involved from spiritual entities.

>>718723

I wonder what that "good post" was about. It looks like it was deleted really quickly for some reason.

>>718728

>I wonder what that "good post" was about. It looks like it was deleted really quickly for some reason.

it's exactly the same as this one >>718725, with a little editing

>>718726

It seems that the thread didn't update while I was writing, or maybe I just didn't notice it. I'm going to read that post now.

>>718707

When you realize theyre demons theyll try to forcibly torment you. I tasted this for a moment before I called on the name of Jesus and was awoken from sleep paralysis. Hell is this torment, but for eternity.

>>718730

Re: Not seeing changes at the bottom of the thread: I did the same thing twice in a row. I'm going to read that post now, for real…

>>718732

That's something I've wondered about. I would imagine the first thing I would do on encountering such a "being of light" is ask them if they confess Jesus Christ as Lord. Would a demon be able to do that? Don't the demons know that Jesus is God? I think in some NDE experiences the being will even claim to be Jesus. It makes it very hard to discern in these matters.

>>718736

>NDE experiences

sorry, that's redundant

>>718736

You have to test if they're trying to lead you to sin or lead you closer to God. It's hard to tell right away so it's best to think about what they say for a while before considering acting on it. In my experience only positive beings have appeared as normal looking humans. Negative or neutral entities usually look like some cartoony monster or a human with heavily exaggerated physical or behavioral features.

>>718744

Mostly good advice. Be alert for heresy. I have seen an entity claiming to be a specific saint and she has provided me with religious knowledge I never knew. When I checked it against church doctrine it was true knowledge so I consider her a good spirit. If it was heresy I would break ties.

>>718725

I think there are multiple explanations for the experiences. It seems to me that Seraphim Rose is only really addressing one category, the demonic fakes. Those are the type that get spread prominently in New Age type publications. There are also others that read more like the saints' descriptions, and many more where the process of death simply doesn't go very far.

Hellish NDEs are a significant category too. I remember reading from one researcher who thinks that when people don't remember having an NDE while dead, their experiences were so bad that they blanked it from their conscious memories. He hypnotized people who had been confirmed clinically dead without NDEs, and all of those people could under hypnosis remember an absolutely horrible NDE.

>>718750

>He hypnotized people

That just opens up a whole other can of worms, because these kinds of hypnosis sessions are also used to justify reincarnation, UFO abduction, all kinds of weird stuff.

>>718693

As a guy that read over this stuff a bit, here are my conclusion.

The early stages(out-of-body, wall of light, etc.) are universal, and the fact that they sometimes appear even with zero neural activity, or with proper oxigenation suggest there is *something* there.

Everything that comes afterwards is extremely cultural specific.

So a catholic might meet Saint Peter dressed in a chasuble while angels sing gregorian chants, a baptist will meet Jesus, who will send him back in order to evangelise more people, a muslim will see people in robes in Jannah, a "spiritual-but-not-religious" normie will see aunt Mary, Grandma and Grandpa in a green field smiling, a new-ager will see some syncretic Nirvana, etc.

Same thing with "mind-expanding" drugs, btw.

So ignore them, if only to avoid the prelest your own mind will make up.

>>718757

>So a catholic might meet Saint Peter dressed in a chasuble while angels sing gregorian chants, a baptist will meet Jesus, who will send him back in order to evangelise more people, a muslim will see people in robes in Jannah, a "spiritual-but-not-religious" normie will see aunt Mary, Grandma and Grandpa in a green field smiling, a new-ager will see some syncretic Nirvana, etc.

That seems to undermine all religions, as in "it's all in your head, the afterlife will just reflect whatever you believe". Sounds like the concept of the "imaginal" from Islamic occultism.

>>718693

>Most NDE's don't sound at all like what Christianity teaches, there's no judgement, it's just mostly blissful and happy…

Mine wasn't, at all. I was an atheist and had a bad fall. As I lay there, I was acutely aware that I was about to be judged for everything I had done in my life. It was extremely terrifying and dwarfed pain and the absolute knowledge that I was about to die. When I woke up in the hospital, I was blabbing about it to people but I could see they thought I was crazy. I studied religion all night, every night, in the hospital. The occult, traditional and pagan religions, the various Christian sects…

>>718759

Cool, how did you end up believing Christianity to be the truth? Which branch did you end up with? Tell us your story.

>>718760

Well I want to give some context. I was a total sex addict, serial monogamist, porn addict, weed smoker, completely indulgent in heavy metal subculture and jam bands. I had a good software job but was a mediocre performer, and was working for an evil company that peddled filth.

The feeling I had during the NDE bright lights was that I was sitting in a vat of raw sewage, just disgusting. So when I was searching for truth, I used my previous life as a reverse-compass, and sought for whatever taught the opposite. I examined my earliest influences, especially metal and punk rock music. The lyrics are so explicitly Luciferian in doctrine, e.g. "rebel! break the law! look inward! self actualize!" and saw the parallels with Do As Thou Wilt, so I lost interest in Thelema and anything occult. The Catholics I've known throughout my life are the most lax of anybody I've ever met, but I did like Michael Voris. But I couldn't take the idea of the magisterium seriously or the strict exclusionary "we're the only church" stuff, no offense to the Catholics on this board.

I ended up being really fascinated with fundamental Baptists and orthodox Christianity and watched a lot of sermons from each. Orthodox was a little… inaccessible, especially because it's so ethnically attuned. Like, many of the sermons were in Greek or something and I needed subtitles. With that said, I found Steven Anderson's preaching to utterly captivating and I was riveted. I would watch multiple sermons in a row, every day, for a long time. I took his theology for granted, I just loved the idea that he rested everything on the Bible and had a zero tolerance policy for degeneracy. I remember in an interview someone asked him, what if your children turned gay? And he said he would disown them. It sent shockwaves through me because I know that he has somehow stared into the abyss like I did and saw how dire the situation was, and that it required a zealousness that the world wouldn't understand.

I was planning to move to Arizona with another friend who was also watching the sermons daily, but around that time, James White demolished him on his KJV-Onlyism. So then I'm like, who is this James White guy? After looking into reformed theology, I realized it matched up perfectly with some non-religious descriptions of the 10 dimensions; I wrote about that here >>>714186

I like the work that Jeff Durbin of Apologia Church is doing, and I watch a lot of his sermons online. I donate money to him because of all the anti-abortion stuff he's doing, abortion of course being the highest crime of the West and the one I think God is angriest at us about. I don't attend an actual physical church; I'm a little gunshy after almost moving to Tempe.

>>718777

Formatting fix: >>714186

>>718758

>>718757

Yeah I heard similar a few years back watching these discussions on Howard Storm's NDE. They are from a transtheistic point of view, so make note of them if they are of interest since there's a risk this post or thread may get deleted.

https://youtu.be/yfKUKqbS7nw

https://youtu.be/PQmthhvT3Xo

>>718732

Basically don't follow any sketchy looking individuals who refuse to answer any questions or talk. Probably better to stay put.

>>718789

>Howard Storm's NDE

Never heard of this. Could you give a little bit of background before I listen to that clip?

>>718797

His is probably one of the more known accounts. There are numerous interviews available.

Same anon here btw but with possibly different ip as using mobile to avoid sudden permaban.

>>718758

>That seems to undermine all religions, as in "it's all in your head, the afterlife will just reflect whatever you believe".

Not exactly, we didn't create our religions off NDE's and from visions of people that were super-high.

Look at how St.John of Damascus made fun of Islam for their theology being based on dreams and co that their prophet had, without any witnesses.

What i'm saying is "don't take your theology off random stuff people that were almost dead saw".

For monks, one of the biggest, most insisted rules i saw in their books is "Reject visions. Better to distrust a legit one than to be deceived, or to deceive yourself"

>Sounds like the concept of the "imaginal" from Islamic occultism.

Oh, seems interesting.

Tell me more.

>>718696

WHY DO PEOPLE ALWAYS ASSOCIATE FIRST POINT WITH APOKATASTASIS. THEY ARENT BLOODY RELATED!

>>718810

>>718789

So I'm watching Storm's actual interview (embed related) and also just checked out his wiki page and found this

>…the "beings of light" answered his questions. They told him that the United States was a "blessed nation" but one which required a change lest lose its prosperity. He describes visions of a future plagued by war, natural disasters and despair, but which could be avoided should there be a major spiritual "shift" in the consciousness of the world. These beings told him that the "correct religion" is that religion which "brings you closest to God."

sounds like we're being prepared by these "beings of light" for some sort NWO worship whatever you feel like world religion

>>718872

oops embed related

>>718693

This is a relevant compilation

https://www.magiscenter.com/caution-near-death-experiences/

>>718873

whoah, at about 58:20 they start talking about Jews and the Holocaust, very weird stuff. Apparently he saw a vision of a concentration camp during his NDE.

>>718858

>>718694

Please explain more

Because you aren't really dead.

Its just your brain going nuts.

People can't go back from the death unless there's some miracle involved or in the judgment day.

>>718736

I wouldn't talk to them. If that happened to me I'd cry out loud the creed so listen to no one, so that I wouldn't be influenced by them. And if I found out I was really 3 seconds away from real death I'd just say "Father, into thy hands I deliver my spirit"

>>718757

>People still doubt doom not the most christian mainstream game out there