/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

A subset of knowledge is not all knowledge

>>716824

And OSAS is first believed by Gnostics

OSAS BTFO

>>716974

>>716974

this just proves OSAS is apostolic

>>716975

and Gnostic

(((victors))) write the history

TT Baptists admit they are Gnostics

>everything gnostics believe is bad

I guess this makes Paul a baptist, if you're gonna use this "logic".

>>716985

You are just butthurt that OSAS came from heretics. No surprise there, no early ante nicene true Christian take Baptists beliefs

OSAS is gnostic

>>716823

>Gnostics: we should have statues and paintings, because YHWH isn’t really God but the demiurge

>Catholics: we should have statues and paintings, because God actually didn’t mean the commandments

>Baptists: thou shalt not make any graven image

>Gnostics: in addition to God, there are many other beings we should pray to like Barbelo or Sophia

>Catholics: in addition to God, there are many other beings we should pray to like the angels or Mary

>Baptists: only pray to God

>Gnostics: don’t believe what the scripture actually says, it all has a hidden meaning that secretly teaches our beliefs

>Catholics: don’t believe what the scripture actually says, it all has a hidden meaning that secretly teaches our beliefs

>Baptists: believe scripture

>Gnostics: you are saved through thorough ritual and work

>Catholics: you are saved through thorough ritual and work

>Baptists: you are saved through Christ

>Gnostics: if you are saved you remain saved

>Catholics: if you briefly change your views on God or Jesus from what we believe, God takes your name out of the book of life until turn back to us

>Baptists: if you are saved you remain saved

Huh, I guess there is a similarity between Gnostics and Baptists. Wtf where’s my rosary?

>>717722

10/10 post

God bless you

>>717722

1)Except some Gnostics are also iconoclasts like Baptists. See Acts of John. Contra early Christian evidence that images are ok.

2)Non argument, as Catholics dont even pray to any of those

3)Baptists reject Scripture and like Gnostics, twist the mosaic into something else to twist their fanciful opinions. For instance they consider Baptism as doing nothing…oops we know some Gnostic groups do this.

4)Except as we seen, Simonites and even Valentinians say what Baptists believe. Works are pointless to salvation

5)On point.

Now let's add more similarities between Baptists and Gnostics

>Gnostics: Apostolic Succession bad

>Catholics: Here is the visible lineage of bishops

>Baptists: Apostolic Succession bad

>Gnostics: Mary didnt remain virgin

>Catholics: She did

>Baptists: Mary didnt remain virgin

>some Gnostics: Sacraments do nothing and are pointless to salvation

>Catholics: Sacraments important

>Baptists: Sacraments do nothing and are pointless to salvation

>Gnostics: no focus on episcopacy and varied bodies

>Catholic: One universal church

>Baptists: no focus on episcopacy and varied bodies

>Gnostics: make up fables about their history

>Catholics: we accept history

>Baptists: make up fables about their history

So no, like it or not you have more similarities with the Gnostics than Catholics do

More Baptist-gnostic similarities

>Gnostics: Dererminist Predestination

>Catholics: Determinism is wrong

>Baptists: Determinist Predestination(i.e Reformed Baptists who actually follow the OG Baptists)

>Gnostics: Once saved, you can indulge in sin and still be saved

>Catholics: We must toil even after initial faith. Mortal sin bad

>Baptists: OSAS means we can once saved, indulge in sin and still be saved

>Gnostics: reject church fathers

>Catholics: affirm church fathers

>Baptists: reject church fathers

>Gnostics: speculative interpretations of Scripture by mad allegory

>Catholics: allegory, typology, history, regula fidei

>Baptists: speculative interpretations of Scripture's propechy and mental scripture gymnastics

>>718421

>>718426

Catholics do pray to Mary and the Saints, they just don’t worship them.

Baptists are the most hardcore scripturists of p much any Christian group.

Gnostics are huge on establishing fictitious apostolic succession, especially Johannite Gnostics

Gnostics believe Mary was an ever-virgin, the Gnostic “Gospel of the Nativity of Mary” begins with the verse “The blessed and glorious ever-virgin Mary, sprung from the royal stock and family of David, born in the city of Nazareth, was brought up at Jerusalem in the temple of the Lord“

Gnostics accept sacraments as being necessary for salvation. In fact, the Mandaens baptize eachother once a year+on special occasions to “ritually cleanse” themselves and get them saved

Gnostics aren’t always determinist

We covered OSAS earlier

Catholics are pretty far from the Fathers at this point, I’d say only the Orthodox are really interested in the patristics

Your last point is saying that an extremely spiritual and allegorized interpretation of scripture is the same as an extremely literal interpretation of scripture. It’s nonsense

>>718443

>fictitive succession

Just like the Baptist trail of blood and wishful thinking that proto baptists exists

>hardcore Scripturists

more like hardcore twisting of Scripture such as eisegeting Peter's mention of Baptism as a "like figure" or James as "works to show men"

>Gospel of Nativity of Mary

Same genre of the orthodox Protoevangelium, zero gnostic content. Oops

>Gnostics accept sacraments as necessary

And some dont such as the Gospel of Judas which criticize the Christian understanding of eucharist which all evidence points to a real presence and Irenaeus mentions. This also ignores the fact that I stated Baptists like Gnostics disagree. This only shows it.

>allegory

Well done for missing the point. The point is both twist Scriptures with fanciful interpretations!

Whether you like it, you are aeons away from the church fathers. The only groups we find that match you are Gnosticism as I has plainly shown. Funny these groups are the ones who believe in OSAS

>>718443

>praying to saints

Catholice dont pray to Gnostic beings or consider saints as some Aeon or Sophia. So this is automatically out.

>Gnostics arent always determinist

Except many of them are like the Valentinians and Basilledeans. The fact that Baptist determinism of Reformed Baptists can only be found in heretical circles is simply sufficient to question your continuity with Irenaeus, Justin…etc

Ouch, Baptists btfo

Baptists confirmed as Gnostic

animefag what do you get out of this aren't you a atheist? ..

>>718480

>t. butthurt gnostic Baptist

>>718480

Facts dont care about your feelings, Baptist

Ex Baptist here, OP's right.

>>718491

Perhaps you should be make topics that aren't to sow endless discord. Really, quoting Irenaeus means little to a baptist except for those already convinced otherwise or to take cheap potshots.

t. not even a baptist

>>718575

If quoting St. Iranaeus, who if you have even the slightest incling of who that great man was, "means little to a baptist" then that baptist can not call himself Christian. Simple as that.

>>716975

>>716978

>>716984

Sub-Apostolic autorithies like Ireneus are against your doctrine. Ireneus was disciple of Polycarp, who was disciple of John the Apostle directly.

So basically the entire Christian Church of the Apostles got everything wrong since the second generation of their direct disciples.

What next? The apostles themselves corrupted JEsus teachings maybe, like muslims claim. Is there no end to the holy things you are willingly to destroy to defend your man made false doctrine of OSAS?

>>718575

hahahahahaahahahaha

how do you know the gospel of mark was written by mark or luke by luke etc?

ST. IRENAEUS

the gospels aren't named. the earliest record of someone identifying the authors of the gospels is ST IRENAEUS. he was the disciple of polycarp, disciple of ST JOHN THE EVANGELIST

repent silly baptist heretic :(

Gnostics:

>sacramentalists

>expand on scripture with their own writings

>esoteric, keep certain doctrines hidden

>worship and venerate saints and emanations of God

Baptists:

>not sacramental

>strictly solo scriptura

>extremely exoteric, try to teach their doctrines to everyone they can

>believe that even asking a saint to pray for you is idolatry

They are nothing alike, you’re being intellectually dishonest

>>718764

One must ask, how many disciples did Polycarp have? And John?

Was Judas a disciple of Jesus Christ?

I am just asking logical questions, many of the Church fathers were good men, saved men, and some were not. They were only human.

>>718796

Here you are being dishonest. Some Gnostics are anti sacramentalists. Isnt it funny the only people that espouse Baptist doctrines are those crazy people?

And Baptists twist Scriptures like them Gnostics too and thus make up nonsense just as they do

Stay triggered

>>718884

Gnostics don’t “twist” scripture, they just make up their own. It’s entirely different from Baptists who strictly adhere to solo scriptura (which is even more extreme than sola scriptura). To claim Baptists are Gnostic is to reveal stunning ignorance about both groups.