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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 98a658f77419ff7⋯.jpg (56.61 KB, 714x433, 714:433, GettyImages-954174228-714x….jpg)

7896ae  No.715070

The Russian Orthodox Church just excommunicated the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. What now?

a4be62  No.715072

Dude there's already like 3 threads on this.


8a8b20  No.715300

What now? Now the papists will party like its 1054


40ccd0  No.715306

>>715300

>>715305

You're disgusting.


f8ac3a  No.715307

File: 02c38033e26ba0a⋯.jpg (487.55 KB, 598x842, 299:421, Saintdamasus.jpg)

>>715305

>>715300

i'm a papist and i'm actually quite sad for you guys, i learned yesterday that christians under the moscow patriarch will no longer be able to commune in churches under the ecumenical patriarch and vice versa. very sad that common christians are being affected by the political squabbles of their patriarchs. breaks in christian unity should be a sad thing for every apostolic christian. we all have problems so maybe we should try to be a little more charitable toward one another. i know it's just banter but it makes me sad because i was praying for you guys last night. the more united we are, the stronger we are, and we're all still brothers despite being estranged.

so stop being gay.


91f617  No.715310

>>715307

>i'm a papist

Discarded


f8ac3a  No.715313

File: ee436bea6088c83⋯.jpg (335.5 KB, 2024x2316, 506:579, st. anthony.jpg)

>>715310

stop sinposting


6b707a  No.715314

>>715070

It's not even close to being a schism. Stop repeating this bullshit.


f632e0  No.715316

>>715307

It’s a sad for me and I’m not even Apostolic.


410cf4  No.715319

>>715070

Another protestant reformation

>protestants from orthodoxy

>sola fide is replaced with hate for the gays

>sola scriptura is replaced with the laws of each country

>worship music is replaced with deep throat singing

>Istanbul gets Raided and becomes Constantinopole again

>not spending 1 hour a day with your (real) bear is sinnful

>rest assured, there will be more saints and icons

>beards will be 2 meters long


f8ac3a  No.715320

>>715319

>>not spending 1 hour a day with your (real) bear is sinnful

kek


24d494  No.715332

Has this happened before?


defc97  No.715334

>>715332

Between Constantinople and Moscow? Literally 20 years ago. The schism lasted for 3 months. The situation was similar, but it was in Estonia, and it ended with there being two parallel canonical churches - Constantinople's and Moscow's.


86edc4  No.715335

>>715332

I think Serbia did it


5ca523  No.715339

>>715334

This. This sort of thing happens all the time and I'm amazed you guys think this is somehow the founding of a new church.

Are you all not aware that Antioch and Jerusalem are also not in communion right now?


cfeea4  No.715348

>>715070

>Yaay let's just split the church and have pitiful squabbles at the time when church is the weakest it's been in centuries. That will surely make people have more faith in church and more people will find faith

Just end me please…

>>715307

Thanks, papist friend. I too feel bad about what's going on in Catholic church. It's sad times for Christianity.


862c6e  No.715353

>>715319

Sounds comfy tbh


45f696  No.715550

>>715305

Are you salty, slav?


5ca9f9  No.715554

It seems like regardless of denomination, the clergy are always the biggest enemy of the Christian faithful


44e8ed  No.715555

>>715554

Nah. The wicked are always drawn to power, or to be more precise, the positions of power, like moths to the flame. And they will try to be part of the power structure or tries to control it like shadow puppet from behind or directly, betraying their own ethos if need be.

Also, this shitshow is a product of cold war, communism, marxism, temporal power, United Sodom vs. Russia power play, yadda yadda, etc. While the son does not inherit the sins of the father, the earthly consequences are still felt.


4c8b33  No.715565

File: a1d617c3e2b7d28⋯.jpg (34.03 KB, 500x375, 4:3, Monk-with-Bear.jpg)

>>715319

>>not spending 1 hour a day with your (real) bear is sinnful

Based


c8f66b  No.715581

>>715319

tfw no 3d bear


91f617  No.715599

>>715313

You realize "papist" is a slur, right? No Catholic would call themselves that


8981bb  No.715634

File: efe2806a28c6926⋯.png (219.92 KB, 1600x1184, 50:37, Reformation.png)

>>715599

That's because the true Catholics are Protestant


00e0e3  No.715636

>>715599

Appropriating slurs always works for other people, so I see no reason to care


b00321  No.715808

>>715634

>No Apostolic succession

>No single unified "universal" doctrine

Technically in order for you to be a heretic you have to be part of the church originally then stray from us followed by teaching lies… but since you are not, I'll actually promote you to being an innocent heathen that is on his path to the one true faith eventually.


368eb6  No.715853

>>715339

I always wondered why they built the Holy Hand Grenade…


4b9df5  No.715964

File: 994a72305fad18b⋯.jpg (3.83 KB, 259x195, 259:195, 1539248522074.jpg)

>>715305


9afb96  No.715970

>>715307

Thanks, and I pray the Francis and pedophile related drama will end for your church soon.

polite sage


e5df0a  No.716015

>>715808

Baptism makes you part of the Church though and prots have valid baptisms. Also if he professes to be a Catholic then we have to take him at his word and only his superiors can judge him a heretic. Although you cannot be protestant and Catholic and must deny one or the other.


f53838  No.716019

>>715334

But now it's much worse because it's Ukraine and Putin. As well as relations between EU Orthodox nations and non EU Orthodox nations being abysmal.

And it happens in the same month as the failure of the anti faggotry referendum in Romania.

If this ain't the sings of big doo doo about to hit the fan I don't know what is.


f53838  No.716021

>>715554

The tallest grass hides the biggest snakes.


8744ce  No.716074

>>715554

>the clergy are always the biggest enemy of the Christian faithful

There is a nice legend about this: when Napoleon ruled Europe and spread the secular values of the French Revolution, he kidnapped the Pope and forced him to be present at his crowning as Emperor.

The story tell that he threatened the Pope and bishops saying "I can completely eradicate Christianity if you oppose me".

They laughed and said to him "But this is impossible, we've been trying for 1700 years and we weren't able to do that"


8744ce  No.716075

>>715634

>the real universal church is divided into thousands of sects


44892f  No.716087

>>715305

Molesting kids is what party means to papists.


44892f  No.716090

>>715307

>christians under the moscow patriarch will no longer be able to commune in churches under the ecumenical patriarch

Which are the churches under the ecumenical patriarch, some chapel in Istanbul? It's really not a big deal, Bartholomew is a figurehead who sold out to the Americans. I'm Serbian Orthodox and I hope we break communion with him as well.


e5df0a  No.716217

>>716015

*often have valid baptisms I should say

Many prots don't


538513  No.716274

File: fb8bd9717a1abd6⋯.jpg (18.29 KB, 473x355, 473:355, reformation leaders.jpg)

>>716075

Precisely, because us true Catholics are united in Jesus Christ, not some Argentine pedophile


f98b9c  No.716283

>>716274

>different doctrines

>united in Jesus Christ

yeah sure


ae809d  No.716317

File: e6b1d01027c7f4e⋯.jpg (143.61 KB, 656x672, 41:42, 1534388765056.jpg)

>>715307

schismatics are going to schism

it's like with protestantism

they have no centre of unity, the vicar of Christ


538513  No.716335

File: 939bd1804fdd4df⋯.png (200.88 KB, 650x340, 65:34, reformers.png)

>>716283

Having a different belief about the end of days isn't going to invalidate your faith in Christ, silly


2abb4d  No.716407

File: 12705c0128ddd59⋯.png (12.38 KB, 567x134, 567:134, ClipboardImage.png)


91b9ac  No.716408

>>716335

There is no salvation outside the Church of Christ.


e88660  No.716423

>>716317

The unity of Orthodoxy is in it's faith, liturgy, and Eucharist. Roman Catholic unity is based upon a supreme bishop who may or may not go full apostate as we've seen


0955e4  No.716426

>>716317

>centre of unity, the vicar of Christ

>not Christ Himself

That explains a lot actually.


5ca523  No.716442

>>716407

He's showboating. The moment the Patriarchs recommune he'll recant every word of that.


538513  No.716444

File: 695c6f52260c7ae⋯.png (7.29 KB, 512x512, 1:1, thinkin.png)

>>716408

>Church of Christ

>not Church of the Pope

Almost as if it's belief in Jesus that makes you a Christian…


ba9589  No.716456

>>716444

Yeah, like you need to follow Jesus Christ's commands. In other words,

>I believe/my denomination believes that Jesus Christ allows me to commit abortion!

Not going to heaven sorry.


538513  No.716458

File: 8e9af360ae1db8d⋯.jpg (51.73 KB, 450x325, 18:13, >popery.jpg)

>>716456

Good thing Jesus never commanded us to be part of some particular worldly organization


ba9589  No.716460

>>716458

That's cool but can you reply to >>716456 ?


538513  No.716461

>>716460

Reply to what, anon?


ba9589  No.716465

>>716461

Look, I'm trying to wave the crux of every argument against centrists.

>>716456

"If I just have to follow God's word, then explain to me, what is God's word?"

>>716458

"TO FOLLOW GOD"

I can't tell if they're missing the point intentionally or not every time they do this, but It leads people to hell either way. I don't even follow tribalism or anything, "No Salvation outside of the church" has (small, but still existent) exceptions, and there are Catholics that will go to hell too. When someone asks you "What is god's word" there are a lot of things to reflect about

Does God like the ideas of different denominations more?(Hint: Revelation 2:6) If I determine that something is sinful and someone else disagrees, who's wrong?

>But my only requirement is faith, sinning doesn't matter!

If my only requirement is faith, then how do you deal with denominations with different ideas about faith? Some people saw the Book of Job and determined that faith in Jesus Christ means trusting in Jesus Christ, since Job is having troubles trusting that God is good, not that God is exists.


538513  No.716473

>>716465

>I'm trying to wave the crux of every argument against centrists.

What?

>When someone asks you "What is god's word" there are a lot of things to reflect about

Not really, "the bible" seems pretty satisfactory

>If I determine that something is sinful and someone else disagrees, who's wrong?

The one who disagrees with scripture

>If my only requirement is faith, then how do you deal with denominations with different ideas about faith?

You read the bible and see what it says?


ba9589  No.716474

>>716473

>The one who disagrees with scripture

Question, which person do you think agrees with scripture the most?


e26fc9  No.716674


ec2161  No.718069

File: adc72b0a2bfbc35⋯.jpg (43.23 KB, 314x593, 314:593, War of the league of cambr….jpg)

>>716674

Reading over related articles on that site, the whole situation is a massive fiasco of people supporting prelates that are the most against their interests

>Russians are the most anti-catholic, even throwing a tantrum at Ravenna and leaving. Nevertheless, Ravenna happened, said uniates were a mistake.

>As a result, Ukrainian Greek-Catholic archbishop feels they got shitted on, and bitches that the meeting was a sham, since the eastern catholics weren't invited, despite the meeting being about restoring communion between East and West, even talking about them directly, and calling them somewhat illegitimate. The Pope and Kiril both tell him he's acting like a rude child.

>Greek-catholics in Ukraine steadily growing, though, also certain to get elevated to patriarchate several years ago

>Just before it happens, Bartholomew, who is the most friendly to Rome, writes an angry letter to Pope, saying that if he signs their elevation, he will break ecumenical relations with Rome. Pope backs off. The whole thing falls at the last moment.

>Cuba meeting happens, some time ago, the transcript leaks, says Francis told Kiril he recognizes him as the chief daddy in the former USSR, won't raise another catholic patriarch in his turf(referencing the Ukraine thing);

Fast forward to today:

>Bartholomew does the whole "taking schismatics under his wing to give them autocephaly" thing;

>Moscow gets pissed off, breaks communion with the Ecumenical See;

>Francis backs Moscow, because he promised;

>Greek Catholic archbishop back Bartholomew's plan;

So, yeah.

The Pope is supporting the guy who is the most anti-ecumenical, and rejects any sort of universal primacy, and the greek catholics are supportive of the guy who cock-blocked them out of patriarchy status.

There is also a sideplot about melkites and antiochians, but that's just minor at this point.


707922  No.718158

>>716674

wtf I love Frank now


2abb4d  No.718173

File: 35a7a74328a0054⋯.png (198.05 KB, 283x360, 283:360, ClipboardImage.png)


113179  No.718187

>>718173

1) It wasn't Kirill that gave the EP his primacy but the ecumenical council

2) His primacy is not nominal but literal

3) Bartholomew is trying to heal the inner Ukrainian schism here, if Kirill doesn't like that he can go create his new, Russian only religion, but don't be so sure that Russian Orthodox will follow him.


5ecf33  No.718247

>>718187

Actually, Bartholomew is the one who violates the canons of the Ecumenical councils, not Kirill. Moreover, it seems the other Orthodox Churches are either with Kirill, or neutral, so EP is in isolation, not Kirill.

As for Ukraine, there is only one canonical Orthodox method to heal the schism: a pan-Orthodox council. Of course, Bartholomew doesn't want such a council.


0955e4  No.718295

Canon 2 of the Council of Constantinople(381 A.D.):

Bishops must not leave their own diocese and go over to churches beyond its boundaries; but, on the contrary; in accordance with the Canons, let the Bishop of Alexandria administer the affairs of Egypt only, let the Bishops of the East govern the Eastern Church only, the priorities granted to the church of the Antiochians in the Nicene Canons being kept inviolate, and let the Bishops of the Asian diocese (or administrative domain) administer only the affairs of the Asian church, and let those of the Pontic diocese took after the affairs of the diocese of Pontus only, and let those of the Thracian diocese manage the affairs of the Thracian diocese only. Let Bishops not go beyond their own province so carry out an ordination or any other ecclesiastical services unless (officially) summoned thither. When the Canon prescribed in regard to dioceses (or administrative provinces) is duly kept, it is evident that the synod of each province will confine itself to the affairs of that particular province, in accordance with the regulations decreed in Nicaea. But the churches of God that are situated in territories belonging to barbarian nations must be administered in accordance with the customary practice of the Fathers.


25904f  No.718323

>>718247

>Actually, Bartholomew is the one who violates the canons of the Ecumenical councils, not Kirill

The canons give the ecumenical patriarch the right to act as a jury to solve disputes between churches and grand autocephaly. Moscow's only argument is that since they are the "3rd Rome", their patriarch is now the actual EP but that argument is weak and they know it

>Moreover, it seems the other Orthodox Churches are either with Kirill, or neutral, so EP is in isolation, not Kirill

The point was to force the other churches to break communion with Constantinople and make Kirill the EP. Since nobody has followed him yet, Kirill is alone. And I don't believe Russian are very happy with the new apartheid forced on them by their Patriarch. Right now, they are the only Orthodox who can't visit Mt Athos. It's only a matter of time before they start to retaliate

Jerusalem took official stance in favor of Constantinople btw

>As for Ukraine, there is only one canonical Orthodox method to heal the schism: a pan-Orthodox council. Of course, Bartholomew doesn't want such a council.

Actually, Bartholomew called for a council in which one of the topics was this, the autocephaly issue. But Kirill didn't show up and sabotaged it exactly for that reason. Thus, Bartholomew had to take the matter on his hands.


0955e4  No.718333

>>718323

>The canons give the ecumenical patriarch the right to act as a jury to solve disputes between churches and grand autocephaly.

Which canons?

>Moscow's only argument is that since they are the "3rd Rome", their patriarch is now the actual EP but that argument is weak and they know it

When did the Church in Moscow make this argument?

>The point was to force the other churches to break communion with Constantinople and make Kirill the EP.

This is pure speculation.

>Jerusalem took official stance in favor of Constantinople btw

No they didn't. Where do you get your information from?

http://orthochristian.com/115397.html


b34895  No.718533


25904f  No.718578

>>718333

>Which canons?

Canons 9, 17, and 28 of the 4rth Ecumenical Council

>When did the Church in Moscow make this argument?

That's the only argument we've seen so far

>This is pure speculation

Anyway, if other churches don't follow him, Kirill is the one that's segregating himself from the Orthodox world dragging the people of Russia with him.

>No they didn't. Where do you get your information from?

https://orthodoxia.info/news/russian-abbot-threatens-jerusalem-patriarchate/

Moscow threatened Jerusalem that they will stop communion with them as well if they won't follow them. Jerusalem is still in communion with Constantinople so now we just have to wait and see if Kirill will stick to his threats (he won't probably but you never know)

>>718533

>can we expect a lot of this in the near future?

If Kirill decides to take it too far, we can see many things. Moscow has already started discussions with Francis

http://spzh.news/en/news/56831-mitropolit-ilarion-obsudit-cerkovnuju-situaciju-v-ukraine-s-papoj-rimskim


7529c5  No.718604

>>718578

>>>Moscow's only argument is that since they are the "3rd Rome", their patriarch is now the actual EP but that argument is weak and they know it

>>When did the Church in Moscow make this argument?

>That's the only argument we've seen so far

I don't now what sort of odd echo-chamber you've been living in but I mostly read at least moderately pro-Russian sources and I've not seen anyone who's part of the Church hierarchy make that argument. (I think I did see *one* anonymous internet poster make it; so I can't say that I've never seen anyone make that argument)

The actual stated arguments are essentially as follows:

"[Patriarch Bartholomew is guilty of] Participating in communion with schismatics and a person anathematized in another Local Church along with all the “bishops” and “clergy” ordained by him, encroachment on canonical territories not belonging to it, an attempt to deny its own historical decisions and obligations"

http://orthochristian.com/116517.html

>>>Jerusalem took official stance in favor of Constantinople btw

>>No they didn't. Where do you get your information from?

>https://orthodoxia.info/news/russian-abbot-threatens-jerusalem-patriarchate/

>Moscow threatened Jerusalem that they will stop communion with them as well if they won't follow them.

Did you even read the article you linked to? It doesn't say anything about Jerusalem picking a side and seems to imply that Jerusalem has still not made any definite decision for either side.

And the supposed "threat" from Kirill is just one Abbot saying that if Jerusalem decides to side with Constantinople against Russia they will unfortunately have to cease communion with them too.


5ecf33  No.718607

>>718578

>Canons 9, 17, and 28 of the 4rth Ecumenical Council give the ecumenical patriarch the right to act as a jury to solve disputes between churches and grand autocephaly

No, you are misinformed. One must not misinterpret the canons of the Ecumenical councils arbitrarily. We have to consult the interpretation by the canonists (such as Zonaras, Balsamon, st. Nicodemus the Hagiorite, st. Nikodim Milash). Here is what these canons say.

Canon 9 is about non-ecclesiastical lawsuits. The clerics are forbidden to use non-clerical courts. "When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?". (1 Cor. 6:1) So if a cleric has something against a bishop, he has to use the metropolitan as a judge. If he has something against the metropolitan, then the patriarch is the judge. And if he has something against a patriarch, then the patriarch of Constantinople is the judge. This is the only case when the patriarch of Constantinople can apply one-man jurisdiction outside his own patriarchate. If a Russian priest wants to sue the Russian patriarch about some non-ecclesiastical, worldly issue, then he can use the patriarch of Constantinople as a judge.

Canon 17 is about the diocesan teritories. The canonists are unanimous that this canon does not give the Patriarch of Constantinople jurisdiction to solve teritorial disputes which are not within the teritory of his Patriarchate.

Canon 28 says the Chair of Constantinople is first after the the Chair of Rome. This canon says nothing about jurisdiction.

>Moscow has already started discussions with Francis

I have the impression that the Russians are using the catholic Pope (not only in this case) as an instrument for influence over Bartholomew. The Jesuits want to see the Orthodox Church under the Pope. From their point of view, however, unification with Constantinople without Moscow is pointless. Because of this it is easy for Moscow to use some circles in the catholic church in order to put pressure on Bartholomew.

>>718604

>I've not seen anyone who's part of the Church hierarchy make the argument of the "3rd Rome"

Indeed. However ridiculous this is, the only ones who speak about the 3rd Rome are people who support the new claims of the "New Rome".


25904f  No.718608

>>718604

I don't keep an archive for every time i see likewise arguments, but here's an example from this cancerous site you posted

>Without any significant Orthodox population on its territory, it claims authority over the diaspora, relying on a canon (28 of the Fourth Ecumenical Council at Chalcedon in 451) that stipulates that "the Dioceses aforesaid as are among the barbarians, should be ordained by the aforesaid most holy throne of the most holy Church of Constantinople." For a patriarchate that is in a state of extinction to presume to imagine that it is the leaven of the Church and of history, as though it were at the height of the empire and has authority over the "Orthodox of the diaspora" as though they were "barbarians" is to plumb the depths of a historic insanity

Constantinople fell to the ottomans, it is small, we have a bigger Orthodox population right now (never mind what was happening few decades ago), pics of the shack of Constantinople, screw the ecumenical canons etc. This is the most popular arguments we've hear so far.

>[Patriarch Bartholomew is guilty of] Participating in communion with schismatics

Since they are not in schism anymore, they're not schismatics. Kirill must understand that you cannot keep someone outside of the church for political reasons forever since he's Orthodox dogmatically. And of course you cannot create a schism for political reasons.

>Did you even read the article you linked to? It doesn't say anything about Jerusalem picking a side and seems to imply that Jerusalem has still not made any definite decision for either side.

Here's a more straightforward move.

https://orthodoxia.info/news/constantinople-jerusalem-strengthen-ties-in-response-to-moscow-decision/

Of course, most churches don't want to stir things up by picking a side, EP doesn't want that either that's why he still memorate Kirills name even though he cutted ties with him, but if Kirill push things too far, they'll be forced to do so.


25904f  No.718611

>>718608

>here's an example from this cancerous site you posted

Sorry I forgot the link of the article. This site is full of fake news and propaganda btw. I advise you to not pay too much attention to what it says.

http://orthochristian.com/116747.html


25904f  No.718615

>>718607

>I have the impression that the Russians are using the catholic Pope (not only in this case) as an instrument for influence over Bartholomew. The Jesuits want to see the Orthodox Church under the Pope. From their point of view, however, unification with Constantinople without Moscow is pointless. Because of this it is easy for Moscow to use some circles in the catholic church in order to put pressure on Bartholomew.

I see it more like a desperate attempt to threaten everybody that they'll go to the Pope if they won't fulfill their demands. But, as I said, I don't believe that the Russians will follow him if anything like this happens, except maybe for a few nationalists. Kirill literally shoot himself in the foot with his actions. I believe he will come to his senses again though because there aren't many things that he can do.


5ecf33  No.718621

>>718608

>example from this "cancerous" site

This is my reading of your example: "If Constantinople was a big imperial center and its patriarch wanted to break the Orthodox canons, this would be bad but understandable. But it is absurd to see Constantinople as a relatively small Church and yet pretending to have new rights that it has never had."


625a3e  No.718629

>>718615

Don't they know that associating with the Argentinian colonel makes you wrong by default?


44cb77  No.718769

if constantinople comes back to rome i'd be sooo happy. but i'd prefer russia but i know that's never gonna happen with putin as the head of the russian church.


ece9fe  No.719240

>>716335

>different belief about the end of days

and Baptism

and Transubstantiation

and Confession

and Clergy

and the Trinity

and the role of Mary

and considering Quakers the existence of God

but yeah you guys are one big united band


5ecf33  No.719325

>>719240

To this list I would add the quarrels between trads and charismatics.

The charismatics open their souls for the devils but don't expect an official response by the catholic church any time soon.


0dee7b  No.719340


0dee7b  No.719341

>>719325

He's talking about protestants, dum dum


b25ccf  No.730787

TEST

tiggers

kikes

faggots

winnie the pooh

screw




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