My friend is a Reconstructionist Jew. He says he follows in the footsteps of Baruch Spinoza and believes the universe is God. But wait, isn't pantheism basically just materialistic atheism which arbitrarily infuses atoms with divinity instead of posit

Email
Comment *
File	Select/drop/paste files here
Password	(Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
* = required field	[▶ Show post options & limits] Confused? See the FAQ.

Embed	(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options	Do not bump (you can also write sage in the email field) Spoiler images (this replaces the thumbnails of your images with question marks)
Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf Max filesize is 16 MB. Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000. You may upload 5 per post.

Christanon 10/07/18 (Sun) 22:36:34 d45bf5 No.711318

My friend is a Reconstructionist Jew. He says he follows in the footsteps of Baruch Spinoza and believes the universe is God.

But wait, isn't pantheism basically just materialistic atheism which arbitrarily infuses atoms with divinity instead of positing a divinity with it's own separate supernatural existence?

So is he really an atheist?

Christanon 10/07/18 (Sun) 22:54:38 0bcd69 No.711326

>>711318

Semantic arguments are never effective or useful. There's a lot of holes to poke in that position, but stuff like "actually you're technically an atheist because…" are worthless. Think of how Christians feel when Muslims decide we are technically polytheists even though we aren't, it's the same basic thing. I say you just confront pantheism on its own merits, rather than try to argue that it's atheism

Christanon 10/07/18 (Sun) 23:32:26 62ec3a No.711349

>>711318

>So is he really an atheist?

The funny thing is that there's really no such thing as atheism. An atheist who takes his materialistic metaphysics to their logical conclusion will land somewhere in the very broad wastebasket of ideas called pantheism. To deny the necessity of a first mover is to attribute the divine quality of God's eternity and uncreatedness to the universe itself. To deny miracles and the supernatural on the grounds that the laws of physics cannot be broken is to say that they are uniquely sovereign and immutable in the same way that God is uniquely sovereign and immutable.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 11:29:37 e44cc5 No.711628

>>711318

>Semantics

He's not a Christian, that's really the only distinction you need to know. Now you deconstruct all that he believes in the light of God

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 11:31:43 d45bf5 No.711630

>>711326

It's not a semantics argument though. The logical conclusion of the Trinity is monotheism because it says the Trinity is one substance, a deity who is outside of space and time but who acts at the first mover of the universe.

Likewise, the logical conclusion of pantheism is materialistic atheism because it says the universe is a single substance which is called a divinity but which has no actual existence a part from the universe because it is the universe, it is it's own form, it is it's own mover.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 13:52:49 86d44a No.711672

File: a73a72a2ff7314e⋯.jpeg (78.27 KB, 733x375, 733:375, serveimage.jpeg)