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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 62d9b91a9e40ab3⋯.jpg (42.5 KB, 258x400, 129:200, 8172481274912.jpg)

b1fc43  No.711222

Hey /christian/, this is my very first post here. I have been seriously considering converting to Christianity. It has to do with many reasons but here's some backstory about me before:

I'm a huge mess. I actually used to be a muslim but when I was young, around 2 year ago, I started hating Islam. I just didn't like it and I didn't think it was the right religion, it mainly had to do with many things such as my Parents being terrible morally and shoving Islam down my throat. I hated being forced to pray Taraweeh, which lasted many hours, during Ramadhan. I just felt it was wrong.

However, after that period I met a very dear friend to me - a girl(lets call her Bayoumi). She was a Coptic Orthodox and was my best friend throughout all of highschool(BTW I am Egyptian but I have lived my whole life in Saudi Arabia). She was very dear to me and I really loved her, in a platonic way. I ended up learning tons of Coptic phrases from her, surprisingly some of them sounded exactly the same as the equivalent Egyptian Arabic words. She wasn't exactly fluent in Coptic since she only knew a few phrases and words from hymns.

Unfortunately, Bayoumi and I were separated. I felt really bad afterwards. However, my interest in Christianity, particularly Orthodoxy, grew a lot more. Especially now that I have a very high chance to be accepted into a prestigious university outside of MENA(Middle East North Africa) given how I don't have a single grade lower than B in both my A levels and GCSEs(British equivalent of SATs).

I want to get into Orthodoxy but I have no idea where to begin at all.

b1fc43  No.711224

>>711222

>I don't have a single grade lower than B

Meant to say that I don't have a single grade in a subject that is a B or a lower grade.


b4a5c0  No.711228

File: 2ea9e5219e4593b⋯.png (1.87 MB, 700x1055, 140:211, churches.png)

If it is communion with your friend that you want, know that Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy are not in communion yet. The Coptic Orthodox Church is Oriental Orthodox. If you become Eastern Orthodox you wouldn't be able to receive communion with your friend at her church if you ever met her again for instance (and there are of course the mutual accusations of heresy).

Now, with that said, here is what I recommend: read the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John). Read the Bible from back to front (Genesis to Revelation), interpreting it through the gospels (and it will clarify what the gospels mean at the same time). At the same time, you can read a catechism - the catechism I read is the Eastern Orthodox "Living God" catechism - and you should most importantly go to church every Sunday. I am Eastern Orthodox so of course I would recommend an Eastern Orthodox church, but overall you should check out various churches around you (Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic…) and see how they express the faith differently. You can also study the differences between the different Christian sects and denominations at the same time.

Once you have found a church you like that teaches what you think is the true faith, keep reading the Bible and going to Sunday services until you feel ready to tell the priest or pastor that you want to convert. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox will make you go through a period of catechumenate (anything from 9 months to 2 years) while Protestants either do this or are just ready to baptize you on the spot.


b1fc43  No.711234

>>711228

Thank you for your informative post. But, I have to ask - Is there a huge difference between the denominations of Christianity such as Catholicism and Orthodoxy? I heard Catholics tend to be attached a lot to the pope but isn't there a pope for Eastern Orthodoxy too?

I've heard many terrible things from my overly-religious parents about Christianity but I will make sure to read the Gospels and the Bible with an open mind. Besides, most of what my parents say doesn't turn out to be true. Anyways, Thank you again.


396e24  No.711237

There should be catechism classes available for you to attend. I got into (Greek/Eastern) Orthodoxy just through attending the Sunday liturgies weekly (not participating in communion though), and following the catechism classes, along with reading all highly recommended church literature (The Mountain of Silence, Way of a Pilgrim, and Wounded By Love were the ones I read).

I also suggest that you understand the history of the split between Eastern (Greek, Russian, Serbian) and Oriental (Ethiopian, Coptic, etc) Orthodox churches before you make a decision on which to become. They're split and not in communion with each other- so if you become part of one, the other won't consider it valid. The central issue was how many natures did Christ have (human and divine, or only one). The terms you'll want to look into are miaphysitism and monophysitism.

>>711234

To answer your question, there's an extremely large difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Orthodox don't have one central pope, instead we have Patriarchs (bishops of one region/group of churches). Our priests can become married, Catholic priests can't, among other differences. There's a lot of reading you could do on the topic, but if that's not your thing, you can always attend services for different churches and just see which makes you feel better spiritually.


b1fc43  No.711242

>>711237

Ah. I hope one day I can see for myself. Many thanks for your answer.


b4a5c0  No.711246

>>711234

Catholicism is centralized around the Church of Rome, which was founded in the 1st century and of whom the bishop (the Pope) is the successor of Peter. The traditional liturgical language is Latin, the traditional Bible that is used is the Vulgate, the liturgy that is principally used is the Paul VI Mass (also called the Novus Ordo). Besides the Church of Rome, there are also 23 (I think?) churches in communion with Rome, called Eastern Catholic Churches (and Melkites are Eastern Catholics). The Catholic Bible canon has 73 books. The Catholic Church recognizes 21 ecumenical councils (authoritative councils held to define the faith and practice of the Church better against heresies).

Eastern Orthodoxy recognizes the Church of Constantinople (the Ecumenical Patriarchate) as having the primacy, but it is not centralized around it. Some chuches were founded in the 1st century (Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem notably) and some were not. Liturgical languages are Church Slavonic or Koine Greek but churches aren't forced to adhere to these at all (all Antiochian Orthodox services I've heard were in Arabic for instance). The traditional Bible that is used is simply the Old Testament in Greek (the Septuagint) and the New Testament in Greek. The liturgy that is principally used is the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom. Overall there are 15 autocephalous (self-ruling) Eastern Orthodox Chuches. The Eastern Orthodox Bible canon is 66 books in the Slavonic tradition and 76 books in the Greek tradition. The Eastern Orthodox Church recognizes 7 ecumenical councils.

The Eastern Orthodox and the Catholics had a schism that began in the 11th century and was formally completed in the 15th century, over the following Catholic claims: the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed could be modified by the Pope to add this, unleavened bread can be used for the Eucharist, individuals who die without mortal sin but without having done sufficient penance go to a Purgatory before they can enter Heaven, and the Pope is the supreme head of the Church and cannot teach heresy.

This is just for example, but as you can see they are two distinct traditions and they anathematize each other as being heretical.

Similarly, the Oriental Orthodox Church broke off from the Orthodox/Catholic Church in the 5th century because of the Orthodox/Catholic claim that Jesus has two natures, one human and one divine, rather than one human-divine nature. The Church of the East broke off from the Orthodox/Catholic Church in the 5th century because of the Orthodox/Catholic claim that Jesus is not two distinct persons, Jesus the man and Jesus the God, but one person with two natures.

The Protestants broke off from the Catholic Church in the 16th-17th century over a variety of issues. Protestants believe we are saved by faith alone (rather than by faith and works), they reject the supremacy of the Pope, they believe the Bible alone contains the fullness of the Christian religion, they reject Purgatory, they reject prayer to saints, some also reject the use of statues and icons. But Protestantism is such a large thing that I can't cover everything here.


b1fc43  No.711250

>>711246

>Overall there are 15 autocephalous (self-ruling) Eastern Orthodox Chuches

Can you give me examples of these?

Also, what about the Armenian Church? the Assyrian Church? There are a lot of stuff I don't know when it comes to Christianity.

>Similarly, the Oriental Orthodox Church broke off from the Orthodox/Catholic Church in the 5th century because of the Orthodox/Catholic claim that Jesus has two natures, one human and one divine, rather than one human-divine nature. The Church of the East broke off from the Orthodox/Catholic Church in the 5th century because of the Orthodox/Catholic claim that Jesus is not two distinct persons, Jesus the man and Jesus the God, but one person with two natures.

Ah yeah, I did look into this after the other Anon told me about it.

Anyways, Thank you for your long and extensive reply but I will have to go to sleep now. Good night, anon.


c6d8db  No.711253

Just go to your closest caonical (make sure it isn't "True" Orthodoxy like the OCA or somesuch) and talk to the priest after liturgy. They can usually perform a catechism or direct you somewhere that does. I'd recommend reading The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware as a good introduction. Not that Copts are Oriental Orthodox, not Eastern Orthodox like the Greeks and Russians. The Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy podcast series is a good primer also.


c6d8db  No.711254

>>711253

I meant "Not like the ROCA", the OCA is canonical.


b4a5c0  No.711271

>>711250

Catholic churches:

- Latin Church (or Roman Catholic Church)

- … and these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches#List_of_Eastern_Catholic_churches

Eastern Orthodox Churches:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church#Main_communion

Oriental Orthodox Church:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Orthodoxy#Oriental_Orthodox_Churches

The Assyrian Church of the East is a different sect, they are the Church of the East I have mentionned earlier.


54c289  No.714413

File: dbe32b5e8dd32be⋯.jpg (312.38 KB, 1350x2250, 3:5, 9a38269d3a2bb2eebd6c1019df….jpg)

All these posts are good, but on a basic and fundamental level, read the Gospels and try to get to know the person of Jesus Christ. Pray to Jesus Christ for faith and understanding no matter how strange it may feel. The Christian faith is many things and the richness of it's tradition is unending, but without knowing Christ it "appears to be as so much straw" in the words of St. Thomas Aquinas. Praying to Christ is something you can do right now, with little effort, with little study, with no impediment, freely and at all times, and it is truly the most important first step. He is King, Friend, Consolation in misery, Mercy in times of self-rebuke, the Alpha and the Omega who is infinitely concerned with you as an individual and whose love for you is unending.

Some basic prayers are these: the Our Father, which is how Christ himself taught us to pray in scripture, and the Jesus Prayer in which we continually ask for his mercy and favor. You can find these with a quick Google search. Pray freely also, confiding in him the depths of your heart and your desire to know him. He's calling unto you, personally, right now.

"Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you." Matthew 7:7


60d02f  No.714444

File: b3c0433e1c64139⋯.jpeg (205.97 KB, 533x776, 533:776, E0BFC4BD-3967-4ABC-9341-0….jpeg)

In addition to everything above, and above all, pray. Jesus Christ is not like the Muslim Allah, he himself created the world, and makes sure even animals have enough to eat. He cares about you so much he died for you, and he wants you to come home. If everything else fails, remember Jesus and you will be in his kingdom


66d283  No.714483

>>711234

>I heard Catholics tend to be attached a lot to the pope but isn't there a pope for Eastern Orthodoxy too?

Ok.

Let me clarify something.

The Catholics, Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox are formed by a number of national Churches that are in a confederacy.

Each big Church has a patriarch, who is the boss of that Church.

So, for the Eastern and Oriental Churches "confederations", one of those patriarchs is called the protos, who serves as an honorary leader(he isnt the boss over the other Churches).

For the eastern orthodox, their protos is in Istanbul.

For the oriental orthodox, he is in Alexandria, and one of his ancient honorary titles is Coptic Pope.

The Catholics have the Patriarch of Rome(who is colloqualy known as THE Pope) as protos, but they believe he also the "president" of the other patriarchs.

We are slowly trying to reunite these 3 "families"(Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental), but its slow and hard.


824838  No.714488

>>711234

We are 'attached' to the pope in the same way the disciples of st. Peter were attached to him. Christ gave st. Peter the keys to the Heaven, Christ said He will build His Church on st. Peter as its foundation. St. Peter, not st. Mark or John or Paul.

The Orthodox claim that st. Peter was equal to all the other Apostles so they separated from the see of st. Peter.

This is what Christ said to st. Peter in Matthew chapter 16:

>[15] Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

>[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

>[18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

So what do you think, should Christians then be attached to the successor of st. Peter?


dc05f6  No.714512

>>714501

>Personally OP i dont think you should jump straight into orthodoxy, I think you should jump straight into Protestantism instead

Makes sense.




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