/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>Westminster confession of faith

In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.

>The 345 Council at Antioch and the Macrostitch Creed IV

Nor, confessing three pragmata and three prosōpa, of Father, and of Son, and of Holy Spirit according to the Scriptures, do we, on account of this, make three gods; since we know the self-complete and Ingenerate, without-beginning and invisible God to be one, sole, the God and Father of the Only-Begotten, solely having existence from himself, and solely ungrudgingly bestowing this to all others. Nor, saying that the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is one sole God, the only Ingenerate, on account of this do we deny that the Christ is also God before ages; for such are as those of Paul of Samosata, saying that the latter was made God after the Incarnation, by advancement, being made mere man in respect of nature. For we know him, although subordinate to Father and God, but nevertheless begotten before ages from God, perfect and true God according to nature, and not from men after this God, but of God made man for us, and never deprived of existence.

>Athamasian Creed

The Father was not made, nor created, nor begotten by anyone. The Son is from the Father alone, not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

Later on athanasius explains that they are all co-equal and such but it doesn't disprove my point about only the Father being autotheos but I'm a subodinationist so I do have some disagreements

The Father alone is authotheos in the sense that He is the cause without cause, the source of all divinity, of the divine essence, which the Son has by being begotten and the Spirit has by proceeding. In another sense though, all three divine persons are autotheos, in that the Son and the Spirit do not have their divinity merely from participating in the Father's essence, but are fully and truly God-in-Himself.

I'm a layman Orthodox who has not discussed this with his priest and who honestly doesn't want to. Just seems like pointless discussion to me, it's not like 90% of Christendom doesn't already recognize the Trinity and the Nicene Creed.

>Just seems like pointless discussion to me, it's not like 90% of Christendom doesn't already recognize the Trinity and the Nicene Creed.

There are slight nuances in it that I never knew until recently. I used to think that all persons of the Trinity are autotheos but after actually reading the bible i have come to the conclusion that this isn't the case. I guess this topic was more obscure than I thought but it's important to know that John 1:1, a famous verse, is actually one that I use to support my argument that the Son is not the God in and of Himself but rather all that He has and is, is derived from the Father.

Father unbegotten, not-proceeding, uncreated, principle without principle. Son begotten by Father, not-proceeding, uncreated. Spirit unbegotten, proceeding from both as from single principle, uncreated. Consubstantial and coeternal and coequal. Not three eternals, but one eternal. Not modes of each other, nor creations of Father, nor subordinate within Trinity.