/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>682425

Rather than conclude that is has anything whatsoever to do with Egyptian mythology, maybe Ibises are just particularly smart birds? That would probably be *why* they chose them as a symbol for Thoth.

Many species of Ibis regularly eat snakes, including venomous species, so it seems likely that they would have been seen as wise for their ability to catch them without being bitten.

From my Bible's footnotes:

>In Egypt, the ibis was the bird thought to be able to announce the rising of the Nile; as for the rooster, it was thought he could predict the arrival of the autumn rain.

>>682433

Wisdom is just a very strong word. It's like reserved for Sophia et al.

The Hebrew word טחות, translated here as 'ibis', is dis legomenon (occurs only twice in whole Bible). Therefore the people are guesing what its actual meaning is but don't know for sure.

In the Septuagint Job 38:34-38 is translated in the following way:

And will you summon a cloud by voice,

and will it obey you with a violent burst of water?

And will you send out thunderbolts—and will they go?

And will they say to you, ‘What is it?’

And who gave to women skill in weaving

or knowledge of embroidery?

And who is he that numbers the clouds in wisdom

and inclined the sky to the earth?

And dust has been poured out like soil,

but I have cemented it, like a block to a stone.

Vulgate have this as this:

Who hath put wisdom in the heart of man? or who gave the cock understanding?

>>682425

>>682748

Translated from the Septuagint or Masoretic?

>>682754

Vulgate is translated from the hebrew usually.

However is not necessarily the Masoretic text, since St.Jerome lived many centuries before our oldest complete Bible codex in hebrew.

It's possible the hebrew texts of the time of St.Jerome was different than the Leningrad Codex.

St.Jerome also used the Hexapla of Origen, containing parallel verses from the Septuagint, other Greek versions and the Hebrew.

St.Jerome translated the Vulgate using better sources than those we have now, this is one of the reason it became the standard latin translation.

>>682433

They do seem pretty smart about on par with Raccoons.

If you're arguing with a pagan and the pagan tells you a bird is smart, the correct rhetorical response is "who made the bird smart", because it shifts the discussion to a singular creator.

OP is a resident of Sodom.

Read KJV dumbass

Job 38:36 King James Version (KJV)

36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

>>682425

Sounds like referring to the instinctual behavior of animals, how they "know" how to do complex things without being taught and despite having much less general intelligence than humans.

Or alternately the other posters are correct and the words really mean something else.

>>683887

Tha's what the ESV uses as well.

That still doesn't sit right for me, though makes much more sense than a rooster or ibis. To go from God's control over the weather than to control over wisdom and understanding in man, while theologically sound, is poetically unsound, especially for a Hebraic parallelism structure. This is one reason why I wish translators would give us supplement books about their rationale.