/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>638018

If you can still say "Jesus Christ is Lord" then the Holy Spirit has not been grieved for you. St. Paul says that only the Spirit allows this confession.

>>638021

Found the verse, was St. Paul:

"Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."

>>638021

Is that to say I literally can't even say it in vain?

>>638024

I believe so. I used to be worried and sure I was condemned to Hell and would follow the laws of Christ even to hell, but then I made an honest confession and knew I believed that Jesus Christ was Lord and my Salvation. You can not do this unless the Spirit allows you. So confess it, do you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord? If so, don't worry, pick up your cross, and continue the journey to the Kingdom.

>>638025

But did you actually have the Holy Spirit? This isn't some childish thing I'm talking about. I had a period of enlightenment, of timelessness and spiritual love and I chastised my family in the name of The Lord but only in a matter of hours my mind increasingly turned to worldly things and it culminated in the experience of descent I described.

>>638023

>>638025

Not OP but verses like this really relieve me. I renounced the holy spirit verbally once when I was 13 after watching some faggy atheist documentary, while also never really having understood what Christianity was despite being raised by a church organist. I later returned to the faith and I've always been paranoid that my juvenile declaration would condemn me to hellfire.

>>638038

OP here. Trust me when I say grievance and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not something that can be done on a whim.

>>638037

It's not uncommon for Satan to attack us after spiritual highs. When we feel confident in our a faith our determination to remain faithful leaves our focus and we can easily fall into temptation if not watchful.

>>638037

Yes, I am sure of it. I've had complete descents and complete highs. Really being a Christian until you get your footing for many years (for people I know) is like this. What you've experienced isn't going to grieve the Holy Spirit, and you can be forgiven. You are not damned. Remember that Satan is the accuser of the brethren, and would have you believe this to hinder your undying faith. Confess it, pray for some time, and get back on the path.

>>638045

Then what the heck is Hebrews 6: 4-6 about? I was almost convinced it concerned the very position I find myself in. I was crestfallen when I reflected on it.

>>638018

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved

>>638046

>Chastised my family in the name of the Lord and had bad spiritual experience

First of all, you haven't hardly tasted the heavenly gifts, and haven't hardly renounced the Lord. Taking a commentary on that verse, it confirms what I always thought of it, a full being rejection and full being hatred of God after knowing without a single doubt that it is true. Kind of like Satan rejecting the Supreme Divinity, full knowing that The Absolute is Perfect Good, in a level of intimate knowledge we can not hope to see in this life.

"But the falling away here mentioned, is an open and avowed renouncing of Christ, from enmity of heart against him, his cause, and people, by men approving in their minds the deeds of his murderers, and all this after they have received the knowledge of the truth, and tasted some of its comforts."

You haven't done this. And do note, that there are two types of negative spiritual experiences (that I know of), the kind where you are truly reprimanded by God (I've had this several times, and it is horrible, He will sting your conscience to the point where you wish to hide from yourself, men, and God, and it will last until you repent and truly never do that thing again, there are also other ways it happens) and the kind where you are being brought down by Satan. If your experience is leading you to the point where you think you're damned and have judged yourself, don't pray, and are worried and not feeling the joy of freedom in Christ, then I'd say it's the latter.

You didn't reject Christ with all your being, you sinned. Confess, repent, never do it again, and reject all thoughts that you are going to hell. You have no idea, and this whole thing to me seems like a trick of the devil to bring you this low.

>>638046

Paul does not mention "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in Hebrews. He just says "fallen away," which sounds like a broader designation. The best interpretation is not that it is impossible to restore those who have fallen away by penance, but rather that it is impossible to restore those who have fallen away by a second baptism. Notice how he talking about leaving the beginning teaching (he uses the word "arches"), doctrine of "baptisms" and other basic teachings. He's talking about the initial catechesis and baptism of converts. So when he then says it is impossible to receive those who have fallen the same way they first entered the Church, by catechesis and baptism.

Those who fall away can return by penance. Even Paul received back the incestuous Corinthian he excommunicated.

<Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

<Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

<And this will we do, if God permit.

<For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

<And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,<If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

>>638018

Yes, feeling the same pretty much.

This seems similar to my experience except Peterson didn't experience a descent into hell.

>not confessing mortal sins

>not taking the Holy Eucharist

could be why, OP. your feelings have very little to do with the Lord's decree, you are not God.

>>639285

interesting set of non-sequiturs there

Many Saints experienced the grief of "losing the Spirit".

Humbleness is the answer, despair is a trap of the devil.

Having dark nights like this mean you are on the right path.

Endure and the Spirit will return in all its glory.

In the future you will look back at this moment and understand how all those prayers were listened even if now God feel so silent and distant.

You feel like you are in hell, God wants you to feel that way but not to lose hope.

Stay in hell but don't lose hope. It will make your faith so much stronger.

Pro tip: chapter 4 of the life of St.Silouan of Mt.Athos is when he lose the Spirit and feel like he's in hell.

"Keep your mind in hell and despair not"

>>639465

Thank you, the story of St. Silouan has helped me greatly to find my way again. In fact I cried at his words on the damned, that we should not rejoice in their suffering. That's something many on this board could learn from.

>>638018

Live with the fear of God. It is a healthy feeling. Do as much good deeds as you can and avoid any atempt to sin. Confess your fear and love for God in private (just you and God).

>>638018

vfxcx

>>641578

Do you believe in prayer?