Christianity and Guénonian Traditionalism

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Christianity and Guénonian Traditionalism Christanon 04/15/18 (Sun) 13:21:19 1eceef No.634680

New article about the relationship between Christianity and Traditionalism that draws on some of the texts that scholars use to prove polytheism:

https://societyofstalfred.wordpress.com/2018/04/15/traditionalism-and-traditions-in-scripture/

Traditionalism has actually had a fairly strong influence on modern Orthodoxy so its a question worth exploring.

Christanon 04/15/18 (Sun) 14:09:32 c5d9b4 No.634688

>>634680

I don't know a whole lot about Guenon but I'm put off slightly by his emphasis on advaita vedanta being THE metaphysics and then approving or disapproving of other traditions based on how it enables you to access this metaphysics.

I know Seraphim Rose was into Guenon then moved away when he embraced Eastern Orthodoxy. Dugin has written some stuff on traditionalism.

Christanon 04/15/18 (Sun) 16:23:23 62bb3b No.634715

>>634680

>society of st Alfred

This is a nice thing, though Alfred has never been canonised.

Christanon 04/15/18 (Sun) 22:09:42 1eceef No.634813

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>>634688

>but I'm put off slightly by his emphasis on advaita vedanta being THE metaphysics

Yep, I have problems with that too. Philip Sherrard had a decent critique of Advaita Vedanta but he also ended up believing that other spiritual paths were equally valid to Christianity. I strongly believe that Christianity elevated Tradition to a new level with the incarnation of Christ and the revelation of the Trinity.

>>634715

True, although what "canonisation" is in the East is somewhat disputed. St Alfred makes it into the encyclopedia of Orthodox royal saints "Pious Kings and Right-Believing Queens". I thing he is a good choice for a predominately english speaking group.

Christanon 04/15/18 (Sun) 23:23:07 b4b48d No.634835

Coincidence for I am currently reading guenon's book "insights into Christian esoterism". I don't know though. The only book I've read by him was the one about Dante's esoterism and it seems unlikely.

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 01:45:14 c1983e No.634900

>>634813

>Philip Sherrard had a decent critique of Advaita Vedanta

Where is this?

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 02:49:32 21df2e No.634910

Seems like a nice website

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 05:09:56 eef174 No.634937

>>634900

It's an essay in his book "Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition" but Jay Dyer quotes some lengthy excerpts here: https://jaysanalysis.com/2013/11/04/rational-theory-choice-and-religious-traditionalism/

Also, some similar points are raised in his article on "Logic and the Absolute": http://www.studiesincomparativereligion.com/public/articles/Logic_and_the_Absolute_Platonic_and_Christian_Views-by_Philip_Sherrard.aspx

Many of the essays in "Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition" can be found elsewhere but there are about 2-3 good ones in there. There's also one where he affirms the validity of other Traditions which is unfortunate and reveals his limitations.

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 07:28:08 c1983e No.634960

>>634937

Thanks

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 09:39:28 1eceef No.634987

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>>634835

Guenon has some good insights into Christianity but he was too disdainful of anything "theological" which he considered to be lower than pure metaphysics. His points about initiation are generally okay but the best writer influenced by the Traditionalist school is probably Jonathan Pageau.

As >>634688 pointed out, his Hindu-centric worldview is a problem as is his inability to take serious the differences between Christianity and the other Traditions.

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 12:28:31 b4b48d No.635005

>>634987

Gonna check pageau.

Do you know anything about Rama coomaraswamy? He was part of schuon's tariqah and friend (?) of lefebvre and malachi Martin.There are some extremely fishy things behind that — things I plan to unveil one day.

According to another former student of schuon, coomaraswamy was an infiltrated Islamic in catholic circles who was using lefebvre, who ended up expelling him from the seminar.

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 20:12:46 b8a43c No.635159

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>>635005

Haha bullshit, Rama Coomaraswamy's father (Ananda, who was a close friend of Guénon) didn't like Islam because of the extremely bad relations it has with Hinduism. Rama wrote two sedevacantist books (afaik) about Vatican II being a loss of tradition.

Now, the islamic agent stuff doesn't seem plausible. First because Guénon and most "guenonians" see advaita vedanta as the normative religion (he ended in Egypt by accident, he wanted to be Hindu, but visa was refused because of his book on theosophy, at least it's what i red about the subject).

>>634813

It is very complicated. Advaita vedanta is really solid. You would be surprised ho much parallels you could make with church fathers, especially eastern ones.

> I strongly believe that Christianity elevated Tradition to a new level with the incarnation of Christ and the revelation of the Trinity.

You should try the books of Jean Borella. It is pretty solid, and it gets the interesting part of Guénon's work, but still claims that Christianism can not be reduced to his metaphysical system.

Christanon 04/16/18 (Mon) 22:00:29 1eceef No.635210

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>>635005

>Do you know anything about Rama coomaraswamy? He was part of schuon's tariqah

I know the names. I understand that his father Ananda Coomaraswamy was a good art historian but I don't really take Schuon seriously. I think Rama is sede? Not sure.

Again, J. Pageau is more relevant as he deals with the art in the Christian Tradition.

>It is very complicated. Advaita vedanta is really solid. You would be surprised ho much parallels you could make with church fathers, especially eastern ones.

I know that David Bentely Hart focuses a lot on the parallels. I'm dubious about his Triadology though, and I lean towards David Bradshaw's perspectives a little more.

Christanon 04/17/18 (Tue) 01:59:20 b4b48d No.635266

>>635159

>>635210

Yes, Rama was a sedevacantist and the fact is: he gave lectures on the history of the church for 5 years in a FSSPX seminar.

In this interview with R. Coomaraswamy (in Spanish) he confirms he lectured for 5 years and that he departed because "Lefebvre wanted to deal with the modernist church". http://www.svabhinava.org/friends/JoaquinAlbaicin/RamaCoom-Spanish-frame.php

On the other hand, in this Brazilian article, a friend of one of the 4 consecrated bishops by Lefebvre states that R. Coomaraswamy thought there for 5 years, got 9 priests into sedevacantism and was then expelled by Lefebvre.

http://permanencia.org.br/drupal/node/1912

R. Coomaraswamy was Schuon's right hand in the mariyamiya tariqah at the same time he was teaching in the SSPX seminar.

There is another brazilian who was member of mariyamiya and who states R. Coomaraswamy spoke directly to him that "Lefebvre is an idiot, but he works for us". The same brazilian who now affirms that the end goal of Guenon and Schuon is the islamization of Europe.

I don't have reasons to doubt him, although he was wrong about the 4 bishops ordained by Lefebvre being tutored by Rama, but then again he had direct contact with Schuon and Rama.

In English there is this trying to debunk Rama and Malachi (who is another controversial person): http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2008/12/rama-coomaraswamy-and-great-game.html?m=1

Who ordained Rama and Malachi? One can find even informations about Malachi being in fact a bishop under disguise, even though he had a wife. (what vows did he keep from his Jesuit ordination?)

To sum up: Catholic traditionalists accuse Rama Coomaraswamy of intentionally causing schism and confusion (which got him expelled by Lefebvre), while a former associate of Schuon accuses Rama of serving Schuon's order to disrupt the catholic movement.

Christanon 04/17/18 (Tue) 10:56:17 1eceef No.635393

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>635266

>Catholic traditionalists accuse Rama Coomaraswamy of intentionally causing schism and confusion (which got him expelled by Lefebvre), while a former associate of Schuon accuses Rama of serving Schuon's order to disrupt the catholic movement.

I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of these guys are on the level of someone like James Cutsinger in Orthodoxy. They latch onto a Tradition but try and remain faithful to the metaphysics of Islam or one of the Hindu schools - in the process, they totally distort Christian teachings. Even Philip Sherrard, despite his critique of Advaita Vedanta, still relativised salvation which is a big mistake.

Guenon's value lies in his serious attempts to recover metaphysics when it had been totally forgotten in the West but as Fr Seraphim Rose emphasized, we have to recognize his limitations. Alexander Dugin is probably one of the better Christian Traditionalists in current times.